Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise

So Marvin Jones couldn't lead to a 12th comp in the 3rd? I'm happy to have picks but with that many given in that round I was expecting one of them or at least two 4ths with what he and Sanu were paid and did.

(02-24-2017, 06:41 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not a fan of the comp system as it's currently set up. If a team loses a player to free agency (especially by choice), then why should it be rewarded with a draft pick if it chooses not to replace the player with another comparable FA, or decides to replace them in the draft instead of pursuing a FA?

As someone else mentioned, in a league like baseball where there is no real salary cap it makes more sense.  This way, all those 3rd rounders push the Bengals high 4th round selection to further outside the top 100 players.  

(02-24-2017, 10:54 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: [ -> ]Mr. Technicality...Revis was actually traded to the Bucs by the Jets: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000162196/article/new-york-jets-trade-darrelle-revis-to-tampa-bay-bucs

He was quite good for the Bucs...but while his contract was a 6 year contract. It was structured so most of the money was in base salary. Essentially he signed 6, 1 year contracts. Revis also had an ACL injury when he was traded to the Bucs and still made the Pro Bowl.

Cliff Avril was one of the most sought after DE's on the market that year. Avril signed a 2 year $15 million deal with Seattle. Hardly dumpster diving. Prior to that he had 39.5 sacks and 16 forced fumbles in 5 years for the Lions.

You're using a strawman argument where you downplay how good free agents other teams sign and overrate how good ones the Bengals sign are. The Bengals don't sign 1st tier, 2nd tier, or even 3rd tier free agents. The guys they sign are 4th tier and below.

Darrell Revis was cut after one season in Tampa. If he was so good they would have kept him. 

(02-24-2017, 11:06 PM)McC Wrote: [ -> ]People like me?  WTF?  What kind of rude ass comment is that?

Cliff Avril's first contract with Seattle was 2 years, 13 million.  Hardly cheap. 

Revis got a 10 million dollar signing bonus from the Patriots.   That is one expensive dumpster.  

Michael Bennett has only played for Seattle.  He was an undrafted free agent.

If you're gonna be so rude, at least you can be correct.

Michael Bennett played for the Bucs so if your gonna make a point be right on it. Cliff Avril  contact was and still is very cheap for a starting Defensive end in the NFL I honestly don't know how anyone could argue that.

(02-24-2017, 10:19 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: [ -> ]Dude...free agency isn't any less risky than drafting players. Free agents have a proven track record.

Miss on a free agent and it costs you millions in cap space.  Miss on a draft pick and it only cost you a fraction of that.

Seems to me that some of the same people whining about comp picks were the same ones whining about how Marvin could not win with "One of the best rosters in the league".

Here is a question for you guys. If no other team in the league lets there good players leave in free agency then how would there be ant good free agents available for the Bengals to sign? Seems to me that the Bengals spend as much to keep their top players as every other team in the league.

(02-25-2017, 12:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: [ -> ]Seems to me that some of the same people whining about comp picks were the same ones whining about how Marvin could not win with "One of the best rosters in the league".

Here is a question for you guys.  If no other team in the league lets there good players leave in free agency then how would there be ant good free agents available for the Bengals to sign?  Seems to me that the Bengals spend as much to keep their top players as every other team in the league.

The problem is what they spend on their mediocre players.

(02-24-2017, 10:53 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: [ -> ]Am I the only poster that recognizes the Bengals are in the rebuild process now?

You are one of the few who "believe" this, not "recognize" it.

(02-24-2017, 07:49 PM)Nately120 Wrote: [ -> ]I assume we just let them walk to keep costs down. Acting like you give a crap about comp picks is a nice way to keep fans off your ass...for a while.

Bengals have spent over the league salary cap for the last 2 years.

(02-25-2017, 10:32 AM)J24 Wrote: [ -> ]Darrell Revis was cut after one season in Tampa. If he was so good they would have kept him. 
Michael Bennett played for the Bucs so if your gonna make a point be right on it. Cliff Avril  contact was and still is very cheap for a starting Defensive end in the NFL I honestly don't know how anyone could argue that.

I stand corrected on Bennett.  You keep clinging to two or three guys like that somehow proves FA doesn't work.  Yet, more than one person has proven that wrong.  Stick to your false narrative.  Who cares?  The last Five SB champs have had FA's signed who were not scrap heap players, not to mention the teams they beat, who also had impact FA's. 

We haven't won a playoff game in going on thirty years.  Yet you think we're doing it right.  Nobody on our team was even out of grade school the last time we won one.  Yet you think this system works.

(02-25-2017, 01:41 PM)McC Wrote: [ -> ] Who cares?  The last Five SB champs have had FA's signed who were not scrap heap players, not to mention the teams they beat, who also had impact FA's. 

And a long list of teams that have done worse than the Bengals also have signed lots of high priced free agents.

But at least you will not blame Marvin for losing because he was never given the talent he needed, correct?  I mean you can't possibly rip Marvin for not being able to win with a loaded roster if you admit that the front office's refusal to sign top quality talent is the problem, right?

(02-24-2017, 05:29 PM)jj22 Wrote: [ -> ]No 3rd round pick. 1 extra 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th. Not even 2 4ths (Which I had hoped for if we weren't given a 3rd). 11 extra 3rd round picks given. Meaning our original 4th round pick is more like pick 20 then pick 9 of the fourth round. Kinda crazy to think how far we fell in the 4th round thanks to the extra 11 3rd round picks awarded.

Now I wonder how important it was to not sign free agents to try to get comp picks. I'd rather have the free agents if we can't even get a 3rd after all we lost and didn't replace.

And in an even more of a  blow. CLE, BAL, PIT all got extra 3rd round picks.

I am disappointed no 3rd round, but 4th round 1st pick is close to a 3rd round. As for these picks, the good news is they now can be traded, the bad news is we rarely make trades. I just wish we would use a combo of the old strategy and consider 1 major trade or FA signing to get us over the hump.

(02-25-2017, 01:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: [ -> ]And a long list of teams that have done worse than the Bengals also have signed lots of high priced free agents.

But at least you will not blame Marvin for losing because he was never given the talent he needed, correct?  I mean you can't possibly rip Marvin for not being able to win with a loaded roster if you admit that the front office's refusal to sign top quality talent is the problem, right?

Let me make this simple.  No one is talking about signing a bunch of high priced FA's.  NO ONE.  But one medium priced FA who isn't on his last leg can make a big difference.  Ask the Falcons.  Not that ANYONE should need further proof.

And that second paragraph?  Pure gibberish.

(02-25-2017, 02:21 PM)McC Wrote: [ -> ]Let me make this simple.  No one is talking about signing a bunch of high priced FA's.  NO ONE.  But one medium priced FA who isn't on his last leg can make a big difference.  Ask the Falcons.  Not that ANYONE should need further proof.

And that second paragraph?  Pure gibberish.

But, Haynesworth . . . 

(02-25-2017, 02:21 PM)McC Wrote: [ -> ]Let me make this simple.  No one is talking about signing a bunch of high priced FA's.  NO ONE.  But one medium priced FA who isn't on his last leg can make a big difference.  Ask the Falcons.  Not that ANYONE should need further proof.

And that second paragraph?  Pure gibberish.

What do you consider Brandon LaFell?

(02-25-2017, 01:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: [ -> ]And a long list of teams that have done worse than the Bengals also have signed lots of high priced free agents.

But at least you will not blame Marvin for losing because he was never given the talent he needed, correct?  I mean you can't possibly rip Marvin for not being able to win with a loaded roster if you admit that the front office's refusal to sign top quality talent is the problem, right?

Just had to throw "lots" in there to fit your narrative huh ?

And there's just as long a list of teams whom have used free agency with much success !

Like McC says no one is asking for the Bengals to go sign the 4 highest priced FA's out there, that never works. What we want is for the Bengals to plug a few holes with quality FA's and/or resign the cream. They drafted a guard in the 1st round for the first time ever and all indications are they're letting him go = MB being cheap.

They'll retain guys like Mauagula and Peko = MB being cheap. They'll sign twilight of their career guys like Dansby and Hawk = MB being cheap.

This team needs to much to just sign the bargain basement FA's and "build thru the draft" If this core of good players is going to have a chance the time is now - period !

We need a couple pieces now, whether its a center and LBer. DE and LT ?? But standing pat with this O-line and LBer's/DE's and our core is gonna start splitting up and it will truly be rebuild time again. WAY sooner than later.

(02-25-2017, 04:48 AM)phil413 Wrote: [ -> ]So Marvin Jones couldn't lead to a 12th comp in the 3rd?  I'm happy to have picks but with that many given in that round I was expecting one of them or at least two 4ths with what he and Sanu were paid and did.

It wouldn't surprise me if the NFL gave us lower picks because they know we aren't active in free agency to get comp picks to try to change the Bengals behavior.

(02-24-2017, 10:32 PM)J24 Wrote: [ -> ]So your saying
Adam Jones, Cedric Benson, Chris crocker, Reggie Nelson, Terrance Newman, Deltha Oneal, Wallace gilberry didn't help this team while they were here?  Because all of those guys would be considered dumbster signings. Also are you saying you would not be happy if this team signed guys like a Torrey Smith, Nick Mangold, and Mychal Kendricks?

You're making a straw man argument:

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent.

I want the Bengals to occasionally sign Top 3 tier free agents. Of course a team can't go out and sign 10 top tier free agents. I want them to sign 1 or 2 to put us over the top. It's fine to sign other free agents too to round out the roster.

Instead the Bengals go out and sign guys like Aaron Maybin, AJ Hawk, etc...that are either 1st Round busts or washed up.

Whether the guys you listed helped us or not...WE HAVEN'T WON A PLAYOFF GAME IN 26+ YEARS.

(02-25-2017, 10:32 AM)J24 Wrote: [ -> ]Darrell Revis was cut after one season in Tampa. If he was so good they would have kept him. 
Michael Bennett played for the Bucs so if your gonna make a point be right on it. Cliff Avril  contact was and still is very cheap for a starting Defensive end in the NFL I honestly don't know how anyone could argue that.

Revis made the Pro Bowl in Tampa...it's just hard to pay one player $16 million a year.

To try to cite Revis as an example of a free agent bust...nonsense. (Especially because Tampa Bay didn't sign him as a free agent. He was traded by the Jets.)

How you can defend the free agency strategy of a team that hasn't won a playoff game in 26+ years...I don't know.

(02-25-2017, 03:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: [ -> ]What do you consider Brandon LaFell?

What'd he make?  2 mil?  And was cut, right?  This is their bailiwick.  Sometimes, some of these guys pan out.  Great.  But how many of them do?  And certainly none of them have put us over the top.    The Bengals usually end up with guys no one else really wanted.

(02-25-2017, 03:36 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: [ -> ]Just had to throw "lots" in there to fit your narrative huh ?

And there's just as long a list of teams whom have used free agency with much success !

Like McC says no one is asking for the Bengals to go sign the 4 highest priced FA's out there, that never works. What we want is for the Bengals to plug a few holes with quality FA's and/or resign the cream. They drafted a guard in the 1st round for the first time ever and all indications are they're letting him go = MB being cheap.

They'll retain guys like Mauagula and Peko = MB being cheap. They'll sign twilight of their career guys like Dansby and Hawk = MB being cheap.

This team needs to much to just sign the bargain basement FA's and "build thru the draft" If this core of good players is going to have a chance the time is now - period !

We need a couple pieces now, whether its a center and LBer. DE and LT ?? But standing pat with this O-line and LBer's/DE's and our core is gonna start splitting up and it will truly be rebuild time again. WAY sooner than later.

Also, the building through the draft has turned into a shit storm of disappointment lately.