(03-15-2018, 09:21 AM)ochocincos Wrote: [ -> ]No, I don't think they stop working out but you got you still got your timeline wrong.
You said they go to rookie mini camp a few weeks after the Combine, which is wrong. It's about 10 weeks. Big difference.
Rookie mini camp was May 12th, so it is 8 weeks, but my point (that you seem to be ignoring) is just how much is put on these kids their last season playing college ball. I have seen it many, many times that the rookies just look dead when they first get to camps. Especially the linemen.
Also, the players will have Pro Days over the next few weeks, further extending their high-intensity workouts longer in to 2018.
(03-15-2018, 12:24 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: [ -> ]Rookie mini camp was May 12th, so it is 8 weeks, but my point (that you seem to be ignoring) is just how much is put on these kids their last season playing college ball. I have seen it many, many times that the rookies just look dead when they first get to camps. Especially the linemen.
Also, the players will have Pro Days over the next few weeks, further extending their high-intensity workouts longer in to 2018.
It is a Whirlwind for them Mentally as well.
Traveling, meeting new people, fans, likely partying some, getting a new car, clothes, apartments or homes in their new city etc.
They are just plain busy along with workouts.
(03-15-2018, 12:24 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: [ -> ]Rookie mini camp was May 12th, so it is 8 weeks, but my point (that you seem to be ignoring) is just how much is put on these kids their last season playing college ball. I have seen it many, many times that the rookies just look dead when they first get to camps. Especially the linemen.
Also, the players will have Pro Days over the next few weeks, further extending their high-intensity workouts longer in to 2018.
That's all fair, but we've seen plenty of rookies (including OL) that have become the starters by the start of the regular season and held up very well through the whole year while also playing well. Zeitler was one of them. Ramczyk, last year's rookie RT for the Saints, was another that quickly pops into my head.
My point is I wouldn't be comfortable with Westerman or Redmond at C if the season started today. I am, however, comfortable with either of them as the starting RG.
And I don't want the Bengals to ignore drafting a C high because they have TJ Johnson, Westerman, Redmond, and even potentially Bodine on the roster. If that happens, I view the C position as weak/inexperienced.
EDIT - Also, how have you "seen it many, many times" where a rookie looks dead in mini-camp? Do you bother to watch all the players across the league's mini-camps? I don't. And even if so, when I was talking about high drafted rookie at C + Westerman at RG vs Bodine at C + high drafted rookie at RG, I was referring to the start of the regular season, not mini-camp.
(03-15-2018, 01:24 PM)ochocincos Wrote: [ -> ]My point is I wouldn't be comfortable with Westerman or Redmond at C if the season started today. I am, however, comfortable with either of them as the starting RG.
And I don't want the Bengals to ignore drafting a C high because they have TJ Johnson, Westerman, Redmond, and even potentially Bodine on the roster. If that happens, I view the C position as weak/inexperienced.
I agree with your post except here. Center would be inexperienced if Johnson, Westerman, or Redmond started there but how would a high draft pick be more experienced? I wouldn't mind Johnson or Westerman at C, but I would love to draft one in the 1st and have that locked for the next 5 years.
(03-15-2018, 05:04 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with your post except here. Center would be inexperienced if Johnson, Westerman, or Redmond started there but how would a high draft pick be more experienced? I wouldn't mind Johnson or Westerman at C, but I would love to draft one in the 1st and have that locked for the next 5 years.
Not experience from years of service in the NFL, inexperience from actually playing Center. Westerman has not really played Center at all except for I think a few times in TC. Redmond hasn't either IIRC?
I'd trust a high draft pick who has played Center in college to play the same position in the NFL vs a college OG who has primarily also just played OG in the NFL.
(03-15-2018, 05:23 PM)ochocincos Wrote: [ -> ]Not experience from years of service in the NFL, inexperience from actually playing Center. Westerman has not really played Center at all except for I think a few times in TC. Redmond hasn't either IIRC?
Cool. I had an idea that may have been where you going, but that was the only thing that read off. I thought Westerman had played some snaps at C in college, but I'm not 100% certain. I don't think Redmond has.
If we roll with what we have, I think Johnson is the best option. I'd love to draft a C though.
Jake Fisher has worked some at center during training camp.
(03-15-2018, 05:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: [ -> ]Jake Fisher has worked some at center during training camp.
Really? I'll be honest, I did not know that. He'd be a huge center. Not saying that's a good or bad thing, but I would think he would be one of the taller centers in the league if he were to be a center.
(03-15-2018, 05:23 PM)ochocincos Wrote: [ -> ]Not experience from years of service in the NFL, inexperience from actually playing Center. Westerman has not really played Center at all except for I think a few times in TC. Redmond hasn't either IIRC?
I'd trust a high draft pick who has played Center in college to play the same position in the NFL vs a college OG who has primarily also just played OG in the NFL.
Any C not named Bodine will be inexperienced. Do we even have any money left to bring in a vet C. I prefer a guy who has played it in college, maybe even all his life, too. I'm willing to roll the dice on anybody but Jefro. If only someone else would sign him. Yeah, right.
If it's a new C, he'll have to heavily lean on Boling because he'll have an inexperienced, possibly even rookie RG on the other side of him.
(03-15-2018, 08:56 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.nfl.com/prospects/orlando-brown?id=32462018-0002-5598-966e-c097dcfe7190
Yeah, and this is the kind of praise that Jake Fisher is getting around here. I wouldn't want his as LT, as this scout even mentions, but he is a mauler on the right side. Put him next to the huge Redmond (who is reportedly the strongest of our linemen now) and third and short is no longer an incompletion to a double-covered AJ Green.
sounds more like a fantasy to me......
I see a big slow guy who will get beat from faster guys just running around him....
reminds me of the big Daddy Dan Wilkerson complex.....
i remember Collinsworth saying once Big Daddy signed his first contract &it seemed from that day on he didn't care if he was good or not....just was in it for the paycheck.......
i'd be afraid Brown would be like that.....not care ....
might end up being a team cancer.......
The last thing I want to see is Bodine at Center for us EVER AGAIN. To put it lightly he is incompetent at the position whether it be his inability to hold the point (resulting in inability to run inside and pockets with no nose) or his incessant habit of blocking the wrong man and letting defenders fly in unblocked.
(03-15-2018, 12:44 PM)depthchart Wrote: [ -> ]It is a Whirlwind for them Mentally as well.
Traveling, meeting new people, fans, likely partying some, getting a new car, clothes, apartments or homes in their new city etc.
They are just plain busy along with workouts.
Agreed, and before anyone goes overboard on me and says something to the effect of "I guess you want to bag the entire draft", that is not at all the case. I am looking at LT as a screaming need, and they used hope as a strategy last year and it was a grenade.
My point is Glenn is a known commodity and if he can stay healthy, he puts this offense back where it was before Whit's departure. That isn't elite by any means. They still need a RT and a Center to make it all work. I was hoping Westerman would get the shot to push out Bodine, but I imagine they will look to draft one in Rd 2. I loved what we saw out of Westerman and Redmond late last year. Bodine is still a huge weakness and needs addressed.
I would really be doing backflips if they got a FA center (although Richburg just signed with the 49ers). That way, they really only need RT in the draft early and LB.
(03-15-2018, 08:06 PM)Steve Wrote: [ -> ]sounds more like a fantasy to me......
I see a big slow guy who will get beat from faster guys just running around him....
reminds me of the big Daddy Dan Wilkerson complex.....
i remember Collinsworth saying once Big Daddy signed his first contract &it seemed from that day on he didn't care if he was good or not....just was in it for the paycheck.......
i'd be afraid Brown would be like that.....not care ....
might end up being a team cancer.......
You can't simply run around a man that is 6'8" and 345 lbs. Those arms can hit you from the other room. So now he might be a cancer because he didn't take the underwear olympics seriously enough (if at all). He rested after the season. Look at his tape. Show me where he was a dud, and not a mauler.
EVERY SCOUT had him as a first round talent until the combine, and now he sucks? I would absolutely love if the Bengals slid a little further, got an additional second rounder (there is always some team trying to trade back in to Rd 1) and got Brown and go in to day 2 with two second rounders and 2 third rounders.
(03-16-2018, 08:22 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: [ -> ]You can't simply run around a man that is 6'8" and 345 lbs. Those arms can hit you from the other room. So now he might be a cancer because he didn't take the underwear olympics seriously enough (if at all). He rested after the season. Look at his tape. Show me where he was a dud, and not a mauler.
EVERY SCOUT had him as a first round talent until the combine, and now he sucks? I would absolutely love if the Bengals slid a little further, got an additional second rounder (there is always some team trying to trade back in to Rd 1) and got Brown and go in to day 2 with two second rounders and 2 third rounders.
i'd rather stay at 21 & pick BPA.....
#1 choice would be Hernandez....or maybe MgClinchey if he slides a bit...
prefer a Center in rd 2 or 3
we'll just have to disagree on Brown....& that's ok...
I bet Buffalo is kicking themselves in the butt now.
With Cleveland's Joe Thomas retiring, perfect partner to trade with for that "4th' pick....
(03-21-2018, 05:17 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: [ -> ]I bet Buffalo is kicking themselves in the butt now.
With Cleveland's Joe Thomas retiring, perfect partner to trade with for that "4th' pick....
Since you are speculating, I say the Browns called (Thomas told them at least 30 days he was retiring, just not made public until recently) and The Bills said no thanks because Browns were not smart enough to fill out proper trade paperwork.
