(08-29-2019, 12:42 PM)Whatever Wrote: [ -> ] Malone got more seperation on that should have been a TD in week 1 than Tate has gotten his entire pro career combined.
Stop it. The corner bit on the run fake.
(08-29-2019, 12:42 PM)Whatever Wrote: [ -> ]Malone was hurt last year. Your boy that consistently makes catches only caught 4 of his 12 targets against 1's in games that mattered. It's amazing that against CB's that can actually play the ball in the air and get good leverage that Tate can't produce.
Are you seriously pimping PS playing time? You realize Taylor has been resting his good players as much as possible, right? Malone got more seperation on that should have been a TD in week 1 than Tate has gotten his entire pro career combined.
If separation doesn't matter, then why doesn't every team just roll 4 6'6" TE's out there every snap? Tate's speed makes things harder for everyone else on the field. S's cheat into the box to stop the run and cheat on guys like AJ and Boyd. CB's jump his routes trying for picks because he ain't going anywhere if they miss. Contested catches lead to tipped balls which leads to more passes coming back the other way.
Tate needs to improve against 1's big time that is for sure.
Same for Malone but like you said he can at least get separation which is a big deal cause this means he can play in
between the 20's and not just in the Red Zone. Getting open comes from getting separation, you get open the QB can
see it.
Tate should only be used in Red Zone situations or in emergency cause he cannot get separation.
Still want both to make the team.
(08-29-2019, 12:45 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: [ -> ]Once the ball has been fielded, isn't a STs play essentially a running play? If Tate can block in the running game, he should be a valuable blocker on STs.
He should, not sure why I felt like I kept hearing he wasn't a special teams contributor. It sounds like he's improving tho so maybe his lack of teams play is old news.
Malone's "speed" is way overrated he might have tested 4.4 but he doesnt play that fast. Malone is a build up long strider he doesnt explode off the line or in and out of his breaks.
(08-29-2019, 12:42 PM)Whatever Wrote: [ -> ]If separation doesn't matter, then why doesn't every team just roll 4 6'6" TE's out there every snap? Because not all 6' 6" TEs can catch the ball like Tate, and, because no team has a bunch of WR/TEs that look the same and do the same thing. (was it really necessary for me to explain this, or are you just bored?)
Tate's speed makes things harder for everyone else on the field. S's cheat into the box to stop the run and cheat on guys like AJ and Boyd. CB's jump his routes trying for picks because he ain't going anywhere if they miss. Contested catches lead to tipped balls which leads to more passes coming back the other way. Absolutely none of this is true. All of it is made up in your mind.
Such silliness. But answers are in bold.
(08-29-2019, 12:48 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: [ -> ]Tate needs to improve against 1's big time that is for sure.
Same for Malone but like you said he can at least get separation which is a big deal cause this means he can play in
between the 20's and not just in the Red Zone. Getting open comes from getting separation, you get open the QB can
see it.
Tate should only be used in Red Zone situations or in emergency cause he cannot get separation.
Still want both to make the team.
No.
Tates contribution to the offense extends to run blocking
And red zone packages.
Last time I checked that's not a bad thing.
He figure out if he had any chance to make the
Roster he would have to contribute in ways that
Dont show up in the box score.
In other words he's reinvented himself as a player.
Your WR core has to be diverse up and down.
You can't have all guys that are 6 ft 190 speedsters
Or skyscrapers that are 6'5 220.
Auden Tate isn't the fastest WR. That's no secret
If speed was everything than Bennie Brazell and Mario Alford
Would have panned out.
But Tate does offer huge catch radius and he's a big target.
(08-29-2019, 12:54 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: [ -> ]No.
I guess we could use him on 3rd downs if Dalton has enough time.
Hey, I like Tate too but the guy has to start contributing against 1's before I go pimpin the dude.
His lack of true speed is a real thing.
Malone needs to start producing against 1's too and I am not pimpin him either.
Just saying what their strengths are.
Tate in college was a red zone nightmare for Defenses. This is his biggest strength.
(08-29-2019, 01:08 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: [ -> ]I guess we could use him on 3rd downs if Dalton has enough time.
Hey, I like Tate too but the guy has to start contributing against 1's before I go pimpin the dude.
His lack of true speed is a real thing.
Malone needs to start producing against 1's too and I am not pimpin him either.
Just saying what their strengths are.
Tate in college was a red zone nightmare for Defenses. This is his biggest strength.
Who was defending Tate when he caught that 10 yd pass last week vs the Giants?
(08-29-2019, 11:08 AM)Whatever Wrote: [ -> ]They aren't dumping Ross.
Seriously, we went through this last year with Tate. He makes a bunch of contested catches against the scrubs in preseason and when he got into games that counted against legit CB's, he sucked.
Just wishful thinking I guess on my part that we can finally be done with the Ross experiment. Between being hurt and dropping passes and just being a total waste of a pick, it is just a desire for that chapter to be over with. Fisher, Ced and Ross three picks that haunt.
(08-29-2019, 11:40 AM)ochocincos Wrote: [ -> ]Ross has been more productive than Malone. No reason to keep Malone over Ross.
See above.... just an anti-Ross thing plus he hasn't done anything this preseason since he is once again...injured. Eifert is more reliable then Ross at this point.
(08-29-2019, 12:51 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: [ -> ]Such silliness. But answers are in bold.
Offenses and defenses adjust based on who's in the game all the time. CB's will give more cushion to dangerous WR's and QB's attack backup CB's that check into the game all the time. If you think teams won't recognize glacier out there and react accordingly, you're fooling yourself.
Seen this way too many times before. Guys convince themselves that one of our scrub WR's is the next Jerry Rice and you can't tell them otherwise until a year after they get cut and wind up doing nothing.
(08-29-2019, 01:15 PM)impactplaya Wrote: [ -> ]Who was defending Tate when he caught that 10 yd pass last week vs the Giants?
Me.
He just needs to start doing that in the regular season for me to become a true believer.
That is the example of exactly how Tate should be used, as a Red Zone threat TD scoring nightmare.
If I'm being honest, I don't think any of Tate, Core, or Malone really will become a good quality starter, so I think the debate about which one is better is really not a big deal. It comes down to which one would fill a better role on the team.
Core - ST gunner and straight-line speed.
Malone - Speed to get deep.
Tate - Slow but really good hands and size. Hearing his ST is improving.
Out of the three, Malone played the least amount of snaps (ST and Off) last year.
Core - 189 ST snaps, 310 offensive snaps
Malone - 27 ST snaps, 68 offensive snaps
Tate - 43 ST snaps, 77 offensive snaps
Some may point to Malone being hurt, but he was still available for 9 games, which was 2 more than Tate. Tate still put up more snaps and offensive production than Malone.
I'm sorry, but Malone seems like the odd man out to me.
(08-29-2019, 01:41 PM)ochocincos Wrote: [ -> ]If I'm being honest, I don't think any of Tate, Core, or Malone really will become a good quality starter, so I think the debate about which one is better is really not a big deal. It comes down to which one would fill a better role on the team.
Core - ST gunner and straight-line speed.
Malone - Speed to get deep.
Tate - Slow but really good hands and size. Hearing his ST is improving.
Out of the three, Malone played the least amount of snaps (ST and Off) last year.
Core - 189 ST snaps, 310 offensive snaps
Malone - 27 ST snaps, 68 offensive snaps
Tate - 43 ST snaps, 77 offensive snaps
Some may point to Malone being hurt, but he was still available for 9 games, which was 2 more than Tate. Tate still put up more snaps and offensive production than Malone.
I'm sorry, but Malone seems like the odd man out to me.
Sounds legit. ST's in the end is what gets you a spot if you are on the bubble.
(08-28-2019, 06:58 PM)grampahol Wrote: [ -> ]Probably some guy in an office at ESPN who watched A preseason game, saw him make a catch and makes a decision based on that alone. He might make the PS or even the 53 if someone goes down..
Ben Baby just took over for Kat Terrell like a few weeks ago not sure he’s fully engaged at this point suggesting Bryant makes the team.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Right of the UDFA's Bryant has looked okay but not really had much in the Preaseason…
Not even sure if hes done enough to beat out a few of the other UDFA's fighting for a PS spot
(08-29-2019, 01:41 PM)ochocincos Wrote: [ -> ]If I'm being honest, I don't think any of Tate, Core, or Malone really will become a good quality starter, so I think the debate about which one is better is really not a big deal. It comes down to which one would fill a better role on the team.
Core - ST gunner and straight-line speed.
Malone - Speed to get deep.
Tate - Slow but really good hands and size. Hearing his ST is improving.
Out of the three, Malone played the least amount of snaps (ST and Off) last year.
Core - 189 ST snaps, 310 offensive snaps
Malone - 27 ST snaps, 68 offensive snaps
Tate - 43 ST snaps, 77 offensive snaps
Some may point to Malone being hurt, but he was still available for 9 games, which was 2 more than Tate. Tate still put up more snaps and offensive production than Malone.
I'm sorry, but Malone seems like the odd man out to me.
I 100%agree that none of these guys is going to suddenly become some stud. I mean, a rookie UDFA has come in and outshone all of them to the point where he gets to sit the last preseason game.
The big thing with Malone and Core is that you can plug them into any of the 3 WR spots and still run your full playbook. You can't do that with Tate.
It's also being overlooked that Malone has looked good on kickoff returns, which ups his ST's value considerably.
Simmons' comments about Tate are also being overblown. He basically said Tate learned his assignments, which he didn't last year, and you can't use him like you would traditionally use a WR on ST's because of his speed, which is really a backhanded compliment. He isn't raving about Tate like some seem to suggest.
Core being in a contract year hurts him, but if we're only going 5 CB's and PUP'ing Dennard, you need to keep him as a gunner, especially if you plan on keeping Tate who can't play gunner.
I don't think Malone and Tate are competing.
Despite the announcement that he'll start, Damion Willis is backing up AJ as the X receiver in the Robert Woods role.
Boyd will be used in the Cooper Kuyp role. Erickson's a solid back-up plan here and special teams guy who they'd like to find more touches for. (This incidentally is where Stanley Morgan - who I think has a big future in the NFL - would best fit as well, but the Bengals are hoping to smuggle him onto the Practice Squad instead)
Ross will be in the Brandin Cooks role with lots of jet motion plays trying to exploit his speed. If Ross doesn't pick up the playbook Erickson will get his extra touches here. He doesn't have Ross' speed but he's more reliable.
Tate is backing up Eifert. I'm not saying that he's being converted to a TE but more that Eifert is being basically used as a WR these days on 3rd down and Red Zone packages. Eifert's injury record isn't great. If Zac Taylor is drawing up Red Zone packages around Eifert's receiving ability, he's going to need an understudy for when Eifert's injured so he doesn't lose half his playbook. That's Tate more than Uzomah or Sample. If Tate is competing against anybody - and I think he's won a role - it's probably Mason Schreck.
So where does Malone fit? He should have been AJ Green's understudy but he's been beaten out by Damion Willis. He's now battling against Cody Core, Ventell Bryant and Stanley Morgan Jr (if he's fit yet) for a spot as a versatile back-up receiver. He'll need to show he can cover multiple roles and play teams to stay on the roster. He's also competing against the other positions on the bubble - the depth on the D-line that the Bengals will want to protect, maybe a 6th linebacker (probably through waivers), maybe a 9th O-lineman if Glenn's concussion doesn't look good.
(08-29-2019, 02:26 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think Malone and Tate are competing.
Despite the announcement that he'll start, Damion Willis is backing up AJ as the X receiver in the Robert Woods role.
Boyd will be used in the Cooper Kuyp role. Erickson's a solid back-up plan here and special teams guy who they'd like to find more touches for. (This incidentally is where Stanley Morgan - who I think has a big future in the NFL - would best fit as well, but the Bengals are hoping to smuggle him onto the Practice Squad instead)
Ross will be in the Brandin Cooks role with lots of jet motion plays trying to exploit his speed. If Ross doesn't pick up the playbook Erickson will get his extra touches here. He doesn't have Ross' speed but he's more reliable.
Tate is backing up Eifert. I'm not saying that he's being converted to a TE but more that Eifert is being basically used as a WR these days on 3rd down and Red Zone packages. Eifert's injury record isn't great. If Zac Taylor is drawing up Red Zone packages around Eifert's receiving ability, he's going to need an understudy for when Eifert's injured so he doesn't lose half his playbook. That's Tate more than Uzomah or Sample. If Tate is competing against anybody - and I think he's won a role - it's probably Mason Schreck.
So where does Malone fit? He should have been AJ Green's understudy but he's been beaten out by Damion Willis. He's now battling against Cody Core, Ventell Bryant and Stanley Morgan Jr (if he's fit yet) for a spot as a versatile back-up receiver. He'll need to show he can cover multiple roles and play teams to stay on the roster. He's also competing against the other positions on the bubble - the depth on the D-line that the Bengals will want to protect, maybe a 6th linebacker (probably through waivers), maybe a 9th O-lineman if Glenn's concussion doesn't look good.
Great post man, sounds like you know your stuff.
Right now looking at the depth chart Malone is the odd man out,
WR Ross Core Morgan
WR Boyd Erickson Sharp
WR Green Willis Tate Bryant Malone
Unless for some wild reason we keep 8 receivers look for Bryant to head to the PS (unless someone picks him up) Morgan could be an IR candidate