Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise

Defense played..well..lets just say better than last week. I give them ZERO credit until they can prove to be consistent. I know they arw going to rear there head again and play like shit.

(09-28-2020, 12:29 AM)J24 Wrote: [ -> ]Let's get real
1.) The Defense has played well enough to win two of the first three games this season. Today they had 3 sacks, 2 INTs, 6 TFLs, held the eagle's under 5 yards a pass attempt, and a QB rating of 63. The Chargers were held to under 20 points and that's with holding them to 3 points off two Turnovers.

2.) Over the past 10 games dating back to last year's Raiders game the Defense has played well in all but two of them(Dolphins game and this year's Browns Game). It's not like this unit hasn't shown significant improvement since the first half of 2019.
3.) They haven't played a game with their best player in Geno Atkins.

Outside of the Browns Game the Defense has played well. The real blame should go to the Offensive Line who can't block anyone in either the run game or Passing Game.

This defense is allowing over 180 yards per game on the ground and about 47% of 3rd downs to be converted against them. It's hard to win games with both those happening. You're right that the o-line can't block anyone and they are a major reason for the goose egg in the win column, along with the piss poor running game...but the defense sure as hell isn't blameless. They haven't made any real progress since last season in the areas I mentioned, and that's troublesome.

(09-28-2020, 12:58 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: [ -> ]This defense is allowing over 180 yards per game on the ground and almost 47% of 3rd downs to be converted against them. It's hard to win games with both those happening. You're right that the o-line can't block anyone and they are a major reason for the goose egg in the win column, along with the piss poor running game...but the defense sure as hell isn't blameless. They haven't made any real progress since last season in the areas I mentioned, and that's troublesome.

We could have spent that 150 mil on offensive FA’s and got the same results from the defense...

(09-28-2020, 12:39 AM)Nati#1 Wrote: [ -> ]Defense played..well..lets just say better than last week. I give them ZERO credit until they can prove to be consistent. I know they arw going to rear there head again and play like shit.

But we have the bend but don’t break quality at least right?

(09-28-2020, 12:36 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: [ -> ]I think this gif best sums up my thoughts for pretty much every post you've ever had...

1.) Should a offense in today's NFL be able to score more than 16 points in a game?
2.) If the offense scores at least one TD off the two turnovers that the Defense gave them; Do the Bengals beat the Eagles?
If the both of those answers are yes than is the Defense really to blame for the results for either the Eagles game or the Chargers game? Also is it fair to fire someone that's unit has done enough to win 2 out of the first three games? Especially when he has done it without his best player on the field?

(09-28-2020, 12:58 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: [ -> ]This defense is allowing over 180 yards per game on the ground and about 47% of 3rd downs to be converted against them. It's hard to win games with both those happening. You're right that the o-line can't block anyone and they are a major reason for the goose egg in the win column, along with the piss poor running game...but the defense sure as hell isn't blameless. They haven't made any real progress since last season in the areas I mentioned, and that's troublesome.

No they are not completely blameless but they are no where close to being the main problem on this team. For example when the Defense forces two turnovers(one near midfield and the other in the opponents side of the field) and the offense scores only 3 points off them then the offense deserves more blame for the failures of the team then said Defense.
Here is the the truth about this season; 1.) We should be two and one right now but we have failed to finish off the Chargers and Eagles.. 2.) Even though we are 0-2-1 there have been a lot more positives from this team then there have been Negatives. We are one or two plays from being two and one right now. I think we should be more patient with this team than most on the board are giving them

(09-28-2020, 02:11 AM)J24 Wrote: [ -> ]1.) Should a offense in today's NFL be able to score more than 16 points in a game?
2.) If the offense scores at least one TD off the two turnovers that the Defense gave them; Do the Bengals beat the Eagles?
If the both of those answers are yes than is the Defense really to blame for the results for either the Eagles game or the Chargers game? Also is it fair to fire someone that's unit has done enough to win 2 out of the first three games? Especially when he has done it without his best player on the field?

No they are not completely blameless but they are no where close to being the main problem on this team. For example when the Defense forces two turnovers(one near midfield and the other in the opponents side of the field) and the offense scores only 3 points off them then the offense deserves more blame for the failures of the team then said Defense.
Here is the the truth about this season; 1.) We should be two and one right now but we have failed to finish off the Chargers and Eagles.. 2.) Even though we are 0-2-1 there have been a lot more positives from this team then there have been Negatives. We are one or two plays from being two and one right now. I think we should be more patient with this team than most on the board are giving them

Respectfully brother, you can say we should be 2-1 now or whatever if not for a play here or there, but they just tied a record for the most winless one score games in a row. There's a reason for that. Both the offense and the defense have failed to perform in different ways, at different times, in doing the things that could turn the one score games the other way. 

Both the o-line and run D have been embarrassingly pathetic and for some time now. Hard to win many games when such an important aspect on each side of the ball is so consistently bad.

(09-28-2020, 02:11 AM)J24 Wrote: [ -> ]1.) Should a offense in today's NFL be able to score more than 16 points in a game?
2.) If the offense scores at least one TD off the two turnovers that the Defense gave them; Do the Bengals beat the Eagles?
If the both of those answers are yes than is the Defense really to blame for the results for either the Eagles game or the Chargers game? Also is it fair to fire someone that's unit has done enough to win 2 out of the first three games? Especially when he has done it without his best player on the field?

No they are not completely blameless but they are no where close to being the main problem on this team. For example when the Defense forces two turnovers(one near midfield and the other in the opponents side of the field) and the offense scores only 3 points off them then the offense deserves more blame for the failures of the team then said Defense.
Here is the the truth about this season; 1.) We should be two and one right now but we have failed to finish off the Chargers and Eagles.. 2.) Even though we are 0-2-1 there have been a lot more positives from this team then there have been Negatives. We are one or two plays from being two and one right now. I think we should be more patient with this team than most on the board are giving them

The defense is one of the main problems. They gave up 175 yards on the ground today. Last years rush defense was historically bad, and this years defense has been worse. That is a major problem. Carson Wentz has been pitiful to start the year and their offensive line isn’t very good (Wentz was sacked 8 times in week one.) Desean Jackson left the game. Goedert left the game. Wentz was throwing to Greg Ward, who was a QB in college, as his main target. I would hope that they could make some plays against a team like that.

Did they play well enough to win? Sure, but when you put context to it, it is a disappointing performance. They still got trashed on the ground, like the first two weeks and the Eagles had a decent shot of winning the game if it wasn’t for some monumental errors on their part at the end.

With how this defense is playing, I am petrified (or intrigued?) to see what the Ravens are going to do us. Lamar Jackson is going to send this defense to the shadow realm.

(09-28-2020, 02:21 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: [ -> ]Respectfully brother, you can say we should be 2-1 now or whatever if not for a play here or there, but they just tied a record for the most winless one score games in a row. There's a reason for that. Both the offense and the defense have failed to perform in different ways, at different times, in doing the things that could turn the one score games the other way. 

Both the o-line and run D have been embarrassingly pathetic and for some time now. Hard to win many games when such an important aspect on each side of the ball is so consistently bad.

Respectively the reason why this team has been bad in one score games is mostly to do with the fact that were scoring Field goals instead of TDs in the Redzone. Last season we were 30th in Redzone efficiency and its the same case for this season as we are 4 out of 9 in scoring TDs.
I don't see how anyone can honestly blame the Defense for either the Chargers or Eagles game outcomes.

(09-28-2020, 02:44 AM)J24 Wrote: [ -> ]Respectively the reason why this team has been bad in one score games is mostly to do with the fact that were scoring Field goals instead of TDs in the Redzone. Last season we were 30th in Redzone efficiency and its the same case for this season as we are 4 out of 9 in scoring TDs.
I don't see how anyone can honestly blame the Defense for either the Chargers or Eagles game outcomes.

The defense gave up almost 100 yards on the ground in the 2nd half against the Chargers, 155 altogether. They gave up 175 and 5 per carry to the Eagles today. They have a grand total of 5 sacks in 3 games and have allowed almost half of all 3rd downs to be converted. Not to mention they can't get off the field at the end of halves. I don't think it's exaggerating to say they've played their part in the zero wins so far.

(09-28-2020, 02:44 AM)J24 Wrote: [ -> ]Respectively the reason why this team has been bad in one score games is mostly to do with the fact that were scoring Field goals instead of TDs in the Redzone. Last season we were 30th in Redzone efficiency and its the same case for this season as we are 4 out of 9 in scoring TDs.
I don't see how anyone can honestly blame the Defense for either the Chargers or Eagles game outcomes.

It’s pretty easy. They were gashed by the run both games, and vs Philly they couldn’t close out the game in the final minutes. Carson Wentz who has been terrible this season made play after play. This defense always seems to be the cure for a struggling QB to get right.

I don’t see how anyone can defend this defense. You can argue the OL is a bigger problem, but the d is right up there.

(09-28-2020, 02:54 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: [ -> ]It’s pretty easy. They were gashed by the run both games, and vs Philly they couldn’t close out the game in the final minutes. Carson Wentz who has been terrible this season made play after play. This defense always seems to be the cure for a struggling QB to get right.

I don’t see how anyone can defend this defense. You can argue the OL is a bigger problem, but the d is right up there.

The fact that the o-line is garbage and the offense has struggled doesn't negate the fact that the run D is garbage and the defense has struggled.

(09-28-2020, 02:56 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: [ -> ]The fact that the o-line is garbage and the offense has struggled doesn't negate the fact that the run D is garbage and the defense has struggled.

Yep. The difference is we all expected the OL to suck. The defense being this bad after spending huge in FA is extremely disappointing.

(09-28-2020, 02:57 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: [ -> ]Yep. The difference is we all expected the OL to suck. The defense being this bad after spending huge in FA is extremely disappointing.

The scary thing is that it was spent on 'run stoppers' and 'sure tacklers' and we haven't seen that so far. 

I'm hoping the D can improve and get it turned around though, because I have zero faith in the o-line at this point.

(09-28-2020, 02:23 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: [ -> ]The defense is one of the main problems. They gave up 175 yards on the ground today. Last years rush defense was historically bad, and this years defense has been worse. That is a major problem. Carson Wentz has been pitiful to start the year and their offensive line isn’t very good (Wentz was sacked 8 times in week one.) Desean Jackson left the game. Goedert left the game. Wentz was throwing to Greg Ward, who was a QB in college, as his main target. I would hope that they could make some plays against a team like that.

Did they play well enough to win? Sure, but when you put context to it, it is a disappointing performance. They still got trashed on the ground, like the first two weeks and the Eagles had a decent shot of winning the game if it wasn’t for some monumental errors on their part at the end.

With how this defense is playing, I am petrified (or intrigued?) to see what the Ravens are going to do us. Lamar Jackson is going to send this defense to the shadow realm.

1.) Outside of a few broken plays by Wentz the Run Defense wasn't bad.  Outside of Wentz the other guys that carried the ball had 27 Carries for 117 yards at 4.3 yards a carry. Not great but not omg bad either.

2.) They gave up zero sacks last week to the Rams who have Aaron freaking Donald.  So there line did improve from week 1 to 2.

3.)You wouldnt give the Bengals the benefit on injuries so stop giving other teams the benefit with injuries. They can only play who is in front of them.

4.) If they played well enough to win then the coach shouldn't be on the hotseat like the OP suggests. 

5.) Lamar Jackson scares the shit out of every Defense no matter how good they are.

(09-28-2020, 03:03 AM)J24 Wrote: [ -> ]1.) Outside of a few broken plays by Wentz the Run Defense wasn't bad.  Outside of Wentz the other guys that carried the ball had 27 Carries for 117 yards at 4.3 yards a carry. Not great but not omg bad either.

Brother, you can't just keep taking the big plays out each week and saying 'see, it wasn't that bad' - that's not how it works. Those big plays count, just like everything else.

Hell, if we took out every run over 4+ yards this year, the run D would look great...but we can't and it is what it is.

(09-28-2020, 03:09 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: [ -> ]Brother, you can't just keep taking the big plays out each week and saying 'see, it wasn't that bad' - that's not how it works. Those big plays count, just like everything else.

Hell, if we took out every run over 4+ yards this year, the run D would look great...but we can't and it is what it is.

Yes thats exactly how it works when you want to give a reasonable analysis of the situation. There is a difference between Wentz getting a 20 yard run because someone misses a sack. Then when a running back destroys a defense on a run up the B gap. There is absolutely a hundred percent a difference. 

(09-28-2020, 02:54 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: [ -> ]It’s pretty easy. They were gashed by the run both games, and vs Philly they couldn’t close out the game in the final minutes. Carson Wentz who has been terrible this season made play after play. This defense always seems to be the cure for a struggling QB to get right.

I don’t see how anyone can defend this defense. You can argue the OL is a bigger problem, but the d is right up there.

He made play after play? What game were you watching?

(09-28-2020, 02:57 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: [ -> ]Yep. The difference is we all expected the OL to suck. The defense being this bad after spending huge in FA is extremely disappointing.

1.) The Defense hasn't sucked outside of the Browns game.
2.) There missing thier best player in Geno. Doesn't that have an effect on the Defense just a little?

(09-28-2020, 03:36 AM)J24 Wrote: [ -> ]He made play after play? What game were you watching?
1.) The Defense hasn't sucked outside of the Browns game.
2.) There missing thier best player in Geno. Doesn't that have an effect on the Defense just a little?

The game where Wentz led the Eagles down the field needing a TD in the final minutes and got it. We had no answer for Ertz, took multiple penalties, and then let him run it in for the TD.

You can’t just keep making excuses about missing Geno. Every team is missing guys. Hell some teams like the Pats had multiple key players opt out before the season. Last week the excuse was Geno’s backup was even out, well Daniels played vs Philly. And we still got gashed. If your defense can’t overcome the loss of one player it’s not very good. Idc who it is.

There was some bright spots vs Philly (Dunlap, Lawson- although he missed a big sack, ADG & Logan Wilson flashed, etc), but overall they still played a pretty bad game. The numbers don’t lie, and they gave up way too much on the ground. Again.

Geno's not even the same player he used to be. People gotta stop acting like he's still a gamechanger on his own. He's not.

(09-28-2020, 03:03 AM)J24 Wrote: [ -> ]1.) Outside of a few broken plays by Wentz the Run Defense wasn't bad.  Outside of Wentz the other guys that carried the ball had 27 Carries for 117 yards at 4.3 yards a carry. Not great but not omg bad either.

2.) They gave up zero sacks last week to the Rams who have Aaron freaking Donald.  So there line did improve from week 1 to 2.

3.)You wouldnt give the Bengals the benefit on injuries so stop giving other teams the benefit with injuries. They can only play who is in front of them.

4.) If they played well enough to win then the coach shouldn't be on the hotseat like the OP suggests. 

5.) Lamar Jackson scares the shit out of every Defense no matter how good they are.

It just doesn't work that way. You can't just say take away these half dozen plays and the defense "wasn't that bad". It doesn't matter if the QB got the yards, the RB, the LT, a cheerleader. No matter how you spin it we've gave up 545 yds. rushing @ 5 yards a carry. Teams have ran it on us 110 times, the most in the NFL, there's a reason for that.

I'm also afraid you're sadly mistaken if you think Geno's return will fix everything.

I'd rate our troubles in this order:

1. coaching
2. Oline
3. inability to stop the run/tackle on D