Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise

(03-08-2022, 02:44 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: [ -> ]When are we expecting cuts to occur?

They usually don't happen until a few days before FA, or during FA.

EDIT - If team really wanted to stick it to Waynes, they'd cut him a few weeks into FA so that most teams already allocated most of their cap. He'd then likely have to sign a short prove-it deal, which would reduce the amount he makes this year.

(03-08-2022, 03:05 PM)pally Wrote: [ -> ]The cap number came from multiple sources...here is one of them

#NFL informed clubs yesterday that the ‘22 season salary cap is $208,200,000. Including important projected benefits, and the performance-based pay pool, the total projected player cost per club is $284,367,000. A look at the cap over the years pic.twitter.com/TzD8aAf8cm

— Brian McCarthy (@NFLprguy) March 8, 2022

 

#Bengals got word last night, as did the rest of the league, that the working salary cap for 2022 season is $208,200,000. Including the franchise tag for Jessie Bates, the Bengals are at $161,000,000. Critical to understand cap charges differ from FA offers.

— Mike Petraglia (@Trags) March 8, 2022

  

Yeah, but the Bengals were already over that 161m in total cap liabilities before tagging Bates. They are currently at around 177m.

(03-08-2022, 03:04 PM)Synric Wrote: [ -> ]-4mil draft cap draft placement and typical 6mil Bengals rollover that leaves them with what 15.5 ish? 

Shrank fast lol. I think they can work in two solid outside free agents or one big name.

Yeah, that's what I'm expecting...and then maybe a couple lower salary guys for added roster depth.

Cool, cut Waynes, add a Center like Daniels, Jensen, Allen, Bozeman or Karras and cut Hop.

Then work on an extension for Bates so we have some more dough to work with in adding an OT like Moses or Trent Brown.

Might be even to add a Guard like Tomlinson or Corbett as well if we do all of this.

This would be the effort we all needed to see that would open up the draft for that Defensive talent it has so much of.

(03-08-2022, 02:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: [ -> ]Keep in mind that if we sign Jesse to a long term deal it will probably give us more cap space.

This is something the Bengals don't seem to do. Have they ever tagged a player and then worked out an extension before the deadline?

(03-08-2022, 03:11 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, but the Bengals were already over that 161m in total cap liabilities before tagging Bates. They are currently at around 177m.

That’s why I keep saying, over the cap and spotrac are not official cap numbers just best public facing guess. The NFL has a real time cap database that teams and agents see and it usually is a couple million off those sites. This is usually attributed to weird mechanisms in contracts that are too hard to capture for those sites. So they very well may have more than what those sites report.

(03-08-2022, 03:05 PM)pally Wrote: [ -> ]The cap number came from multiple sources...here is one of them

#NFL informed clubs yesterday that the ‘22 season salary cap is $208,200,000. Including important projected benefits, and the performance-based pay pool, the total projected player cost per club is $284,367,000. A look at the cap over the years pic.twitter.com/TzD8aAf8cm

— Brian McCarthy (@NFLprguy) March 8, 2022

 

#Bengals got word last night, as did the rest of the league, that the working salary cap for 2022 season is $208,200,000. Including the franchise tag for Jessie Bates, the Bengals are at $161,000,000. Critical to understand cap charges differ from FA offers.

— Mike Petraglia (@Trags) March 8, 2022

  

Yea, didn’t mean the NFL number but rather the teams actual cap at this moment. The sites people always cite aren’t always accurate like is commonly held.

(03-08-2022, 04:34 PM)Au165 Wrote: [ -> ]That’s why I keep saying, over the cap and spotrac are not official cap numbers just best public facing guess. The NFL has a real time cap database that teams and agents see and it usually is a couple million off those sites. This is usually attributed to weird mechanisms in contracts that are too hard to capture for those sites. So they very well may have more than what those sites report.

I can't speak to Overthecap, but Spotrac is usually extremely accurate and reliable (sort of the gold standard) with both cap numbers and contract breakdowns. They were already using the 208.2 number. They have the Bengals currently at 35.87m in cap space and 177.3 in total cap liabilities . By comparison, the NFLPA has the Bengals at 35.49 and 177.6, and they would definitely know what the actual number is...so Spotrac is pretty much spot on.

(03-08-2022, 05:30 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: [ -> ]I can't speak to Overthecap, but Spotrac is usually extremely accurate and reliable (sort of the gold standard) with both cap numbers and contract breakdowns. They were already using the 208.2 number. They have the Bengals currently at 35.87m in cap space and 177.3 in total cap liabilities . By comparison, the official NFLPA site has the Bengals at 35.49 and 177.6, and they would definitely know what the actual number is...so Spotrac is pretty much spot on.

FWIW, the 208.2 mill cap was the known minimum the cap was going to be, so that's why sites like Spotrac have been using it.
It ended up being the official cap (greedy owners lol).

(03-08-2022, 05:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: [ -> ]FWIW, the 208.2 mill cap was the known minimum the cap was going to be, so that's why sites like Spotrac have been using it.
It ended up being the official cap (greedy owners lol).

Right, I was just making the point that their overall cap math is pretty reliable.

(03-08-2022, 02:58 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: [ -> ]Correct, and now the bengals have all the leverage in the world, to negotiate a long term contract.

2022 - 13m
2023 - 15.6m (120% of 22)
2024 - 22.4m (144% of 23)

3 years 51m or 17m a year.  

If reports are true he wants 18-20m/year, it would be bad business for the bengals and unwarranted by the player/agents.

A 5 year 75-80m deal, with 51m gtd, would be the absolute most the bengals should offer. This would be 15-16m a year and offer him the same gtd money as 3 franchise tags

That 3rd year could be the 144% but most likely the the average of the five largest previous year salaries for quarterbacks regardless of the player's position, which is much higher.


The rule reads the kinda the opposite but clarifies itself.

ARTICLE 10 - FRANCHISE AND TRANSITION PLAYERS

Section 2. Required Tender for Franchise Players:
b) Any Club that designates a player as a Franchise Player for the third time shall, on the date the third such designation is made, be deemed to have tendered the player a one-year NFL Player Contract for the greater of:

(A) the average of the five largest Prior Year Salaries for players at the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) with the highest such average;

(B) 120% of the average of the five largest Prior Year Salaries for players at the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) at which the player participated in the most plays during the prior League Year; or

© 144% of his Prior Year Salary.

By way of example, a kicker designated as a Franchise Player for the third time in the 2014 League Year would have a Required Tender equal to the greater of:

(i) the average of the five largest 2013 Salaries for quarterbacks;

(ii) 120% of the average of the five largest 2013 Salaries for kickers; or
(iii) 144% of the player’s own 2013 Salary.

(03-08-2022, 06:43 PM)casear2727 Wrote: [ -> ]That 3rd year could be the 144% but most likely the the average of the five largest previous year salaries for quarterbacks regardless of the player's position, which is much higher.


The rule reads the kinda the opposite but clarifies itself.

ARTICLE 10 - FRANCHISE AND TRANSITION PLAYERS

Section 2. Required Tender for Franchise Players:
b) Any Club that designates a player as a Franchise Player for the third time shall, on the date the third such designation is made, be deemed to have tendered the player a one-year NFL Player Contract for the greater of:

(A) the average of the five largest Prior Year Salaries for players at the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) with the highest such average;

(B) 120% of the average of the five largest Prior Year Salaries for players at the position (within the categories set forth in Section 7(a) below) at which the player participated in the most plays during the prior League Year; or

© 144% of his Prior Year Salary.

By way of example, a kicker designated as a Franchise Player for the third time in the 2014 League Year would have a Required Tender equal to the greater of:

(i) the average of the five largest 2013 Salaries for quarterbacks;

(ii) 120% of the average of the five largest 2013 Salaries for kickers; or
(iii) 144% of the player’s own 2013 Salary.

Good catch!

(03-08-2022, 03:47 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: [ -> ]Cool, cut Waynes, add a Center like Daniels, Jensen, Allen, Bozeman or Karras and cut Hop.

Then work on an extension for Bates so we have some more dough to work with in adding an OT like Moses or Trent Brown.

Might be even to add a Guard like Tomlinson or Corbett as well if we do all of this.

This would be the effort we all needed to see that would open up the draft for that Defensive talent it has so much of.

I was playing around with Spotrac's Roster Manager and I made the following moves:

Cut Waynes (+$10.8 mill)
Cut Hopkins (+$6 mill)

Cut the following random depth players that likely have no chance in making the roster:
Noah Spence ($895k)
Lamont Gaillard ($895k)
Jake Browning ($825k)
Keandre Jones ($825k)
John Brannon ($705k)
Elijah Holyfield ($705k)
Scotty Washington ($705k)
Pooka Williams ($705k)

Added the following players:
BJ Hill ($8 mill)
CJ Uzomah ($8 mill)
Quinton Spain ($5 mill)
Eli Apple ($4 mill)
Tre Flowers ($2 mill)
Clark Harris ($1.25 mill)
James Daniels ($10 mill)
Brian Allen ($7 mill)
Morgan Moses ($9 mill)

That brought the roster to 47 players and $3.723 mill remaining in cap going into the draft.

What to take from this:
The Bengals might not quite be able to sign all their main internal FAs plus 2-3 good OL upgrades in FA, but they could come close if they are willing to cut Waynes.

That Oline is so blah Ocho.

Spain I understand but not thrilled.
Allen might be worse tna Hopkins
Moses couldnt start for the Jets last year was on a 1 year tender for 4M and had a solid season but is 31.

James Daniels I like but i do not understand the Bears not fighting to keep him if he is so great and only 24 with their 30M in cap space.

Hill is the one Im confident in. CJ I guess. Flowers is a steal at 2M. You not signing Huber?

Well the Bengals will be the only NFL team with 3 OL coaches. I think they are serious.

(03-08-2022, 01:03 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: [ -> ]Waynes needs cut

I am starting to wonder if they keep him?  You can't really cut him unless you have another viable option.  They need a CB that can be a quality starter should Awuzie or Apple go down.

Waynes has been a massive bust, but I believe the expensive part of his contract has already been eaten (stolen, more like).

I don't know....People hate the guy because of his injuries, but what is the other solution?

(03-09-2022, 09:40 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: [ -> ]I am starting to wonder if they keep him?  You can't really cut him unless you have another viable option.  They need a CB that can be a quality starter should Awuzie or Apple go down.

Waynes has been a massive bust, but I believe the expensive part of his contract has already been eaten (stolen, more like).

I don't know....People hate the guy because of his injuries, but what is the other solution?

His cap hit this year is still nearly $16M, they can save $10.8M by cutting him.  The question then is, can you get equal or better with the $10.8M saved?  

(03-09-2022, 12:34 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: [ -> ]Well the Bengals will be the only NFL team with 3 OL coaches. I think they are serious.

Zac said other teams have 3 oline coaches?  But your point is well taken.

(03-09-2022, 09:40 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: [ -> ]I am starting to wonder if they keep him?  You can't really cut him unless you have another viable option.  They need a CB that can be a quality starter should Awuzie or Apple go down.

Waynes has been a massive bust, but I believe the expensive part of his contract has already been eaten (stolen, more like).

I don't know....People hate the guy because of his injuries, but what is the other solution?

He will be cut, he wasnt an option in the SB when Awuzie went down, he wont be an option in 2022.  Waynes is gone, IMO.

(03-09-2022, 09:40 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: [ -> ]I am starting to wonder if they keep him?  You can't really cut him unless you have another viable option.  They need a CB that can be a quality starter should Awuzie or Apple go down.

Waynes has been a massive bust, but I believe the expensive part of his contract has already been eaten (stolen, more like).

I don't know....People hate the guy because of his injuries, but what is the other solution?

Drafting a cb would be better. You will get more from him than nothing Waynes will provide