Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise

(03-20-2022, 06:21 PM)pdub2005 Wrote: [ -> ]We should definitely sign Spain as insurance.

No. Spain is not insurance. He was borderline serviceable. He can stay gone.

(03-20-2022, 06:59 PM)Beaker Wrote: [ -> ]No. Spain is not insurance. He was borderline serviceable. He can stay gone.

That is not actually correct at all. Spain graded out just under Karras and Cappa. Not sure where you got your info but is was wrong.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021-offensive-line-rankings

(03-20-2022, 05:47 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: [ -> ]Of course I enjoyed the super bowl run

But I’m not going to ignore Jackson Carman being the projected starter in 22

Guy couldn’t beat out Adeniji. I’d like to see Spain come back on a 1 year deal. I would be extremely happy with that. That’s a very good o-line if they make that happen

So you are writing off a guy that did not play OG in college rather played LT and he was not successful as a rooking playing RG? Well isn't that logical. 

(03-20-2022, 07:08 PM)OSUfan Wrote: [ -> ]So you are writing off a guy that did not play OG in college rather played LT and he was not successful as a rooking playing RG? Well isn't that logical. 

Ehh I’m just saying he couldn’t beat out the bummest bum of all time in Adeniji.

And his lingering back issues are a concern

(03-20-2022, 01:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: [ -> ]I think you lost track of the conversation.  My post that you just quoted was no a reply to your post.

Here is where you said "if"



And here is my reply to that post




My reply was not about the "if" it was about the "continue" part of your comment.

Hey fred, glad to say it, **** those “ifs”. Moot point. Who Dey!

(03-20-2022, 07:08 PM)OSUfan Wrote: [ -> ]So you are writing off a guy that did not play OG in college rather played LT and he was not successful as a rooking playing RG? Well isn't that logical. 

I wouldn't write him off. I wouldn't 100% rely on him either.

I'd like to see Spain or similar brought in.

(03-20-2022, 02:48 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: [ -> ]It's quite the opposite IMO. Joe's biggest flaw is that he plays hero ball and hangs onto the ball. Joe was responsible for quite a bit of those sacks. There are numerous examples of Burrow either not finishing his reads and just turtling or running around trying to make something happen and then getting sacked. It's something he will have to learn through. He doesn't have next level pocket presence - yet. If you want to watch that, watch Brady. 

Well we just see things differently bro.  I think you're outta your mind.  Brady is good at stepping up into a clean pocket and cries like a whole ass ***** if he gets breathed on.  He's next level at begging for flags ill give Brady that.  In the face of the amount of pressure that Burrow damn near won it all....Brady would go in a corner and piss himself.

Thats why 2 mediocre giants teams with outrageously overrated Eli manning at qb knocked the pats off in the SB twice.  Becuz the only thing they were good at was the one way to beat New England....getting pressure with just their front four.  Cuz Brady would shit himself in the face of half the pressure Burrow saw this year.

As for Burrow, as the season went on, after major surgery ofc, he became more and more likely to just take the sack when it came but he still looked to naked plays and often did and RARELY failed of his volition.

Its not something he needs to improve much although with more experience im sure he'll get even better as he goes but you just described a clown shoes klutz who still has to learn not "turtle up" when pressured ????

Well you're dead wrong.  With these signings I guarantee you he'll be among the least sacked qbs in the league this year because he's outstanding at manipulating the pocket and given reasonable protection most of those sacks become completions or incompletions too because he has also shown he will just throw it away if it ain't there.

(03-20-2022, 07:32 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: [ -> ]I wouldn't write him off. I wouldn't 100% rely on him either.

I'd like to see Spain or similar brought in.

Didn't Whitworth first develop into a good guard in his second and third years before eventually moving back out to tackle.  Second round pick too i do believe.

Not saying i expect that from Carmen but just an example of a highly rated tackle not being even a starting guard at first and still ended up being great.

(03-21-2022, 04:40 PM)Savagehenry54 Wrote: [ -> ]Well you're dead wrong.  With these signings I guarantee you he'll be among the least sacked qbs in the league this year because he's outstanding at manipulating the pocket and given reasonable protection most of those sacks become completions or incompletions too because he has also shown he will just throw it away if it ain't there.

I disagree.

Burrow will always take a lot of sacks because he holds onto the ball longer trying to make a play.  BUt Roethlisberger and Russell Wilson have Super Bowl rings and are going to the hall of fame despite taking too many sacks because they held onto the ball to long.

Even Aaron Rodgers led the league in sacks twice because of this style.  in 2012 he led the NFL in both sacks (51) and passer rating (108.)

(03-21-2022, 05:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: [ -> ]I disagree.

Burrow will always take a lot of sacks because he holds onto the ball longer trying to make a play.  BUt Roethlisberger and Russell Wilson have Super Bowl rings and are going to the hall of fame despite taking too many sacks because they held onto the ball to long.

Even Aaron Rodgers led the league in sacks twice because of this style.  in 2012 he led the NFL in both sacks (51) and passer rating (108.)

If this line can drop the number to around 30- 40 with Burrow's style, that'd be a pretty big improvement in my book. Huge, actually.....

(03-21-2022, 04:40 PM)Savagehenry54 Wrote: [ -> ]Well we just see things differently bro.  I think you're outta your mind.  Brady is good at stepping up into a clean pocket and cries like a whole ass ***** if he gets breathed on.  He's next level at begging for flags ill give Brady that.  In the face of the amount of pressure that Burrow damn near won it all....Brady would go in a corner and piss himself.

Thats why 2 mediocre giants teams with outrageously overrated Eli manning at qb knocked the pats off in the SB twice.  Becuz the only thing they were good at was the one way to beat New England....getting pressure with just their front four.  Cuz Brady would shit himself in the face of half the pressure Burrow saw this year.

As for Burrow, as the season went on, after major surgery ofc, he became more and more likely to just take the sack when it came but he still looked to naked plays and often did and RARELY failed of his volition.

Its not something he needs to improve much although with more experience im sure he'll get even better as he goes but you just described a clown shoes klutz who still has to learn not "turtle up" when pressured ????

Well you're dead wrong.  With these signings I guarantee you he'll be among the least sacked qbs in the league this year because he's outstanding at manipulating the pocket and given reasonable protection most of those sacks become completions or incompletions too because he has also shown he will just throw it away if it ain't there.

Yeah, you're right. He is a master technician in the pocket. Flawless. Somehow, he was sacked over 70 times....absolutely outstanding. None were his fault, though.

Sarcasm aside, he has a poor tendency to turn his back on the play and escape the pocket. And yes, there were multiple times were he just turtled up and took a sack. In the Super Bowl, he missed a wide open Perine on a checkdown and ran right into a sack. In the Titans game, he turned his back on the play and tried to escape but ran right into pressure instead and was sacked. He completely missed a screaming blitzer in the Jets game and stepped right into him. He tried to scramble in the Chargers game and ran right into a sack, right up the middle.  

The examples are quite numerous. This isn't a dig at Burrow - he is a young QB and an incredibly talented one at that. I love the guy, I wouldn't have anyone else here. He's also not perfect, and that's alright. He has some flaws and it is okay to discuss them because I fully believe he will work them out. However, we'll just have to disagree that Burrow is some pocket master. You don't get sacked 70+ times if you are some wizard in the pocket, and the tape backs that up. Several of the sacks were his fault. And he'll improve on them.

If all of this makes me "out of my mind", then so be it I guess.

(03-21-2022, 06:13 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, you're right. He is a master technician in the pocket. Flawless. Somehow, he was sacked over 70 times....absolutely outstanding. None were his fault, though.

Sarcasm aside, he has a poor tendency to turn his back on the play and escape the pocket. And yes, there were multiple times were he just turtled up and took a sack. In the Super Bowl, he missed a wide open Perine on a checkdown and ran right into a sack. In the Titans game, he turned his back on the play and tried to escape but ran right into pressure instead and was sacked. He completely missed a screaming blitzer in the Jets game and stepped right into him. He tried to scramble in the Chargers game and ran right into a sack, right up the middle.  

The examples are quite numerous. This isn't a dig at Burrow - he is a young QB and an incredibly talented one at that. I love the guy, I wouldn't have anyone else here. He's also not perfect, and that's alright. He has some flaws and it is okay to discuss them because I fully believe he will work them out. However, we'll just have to disagree that Burrow is some pocket master. You don't get sacked 70+ times if you are some wizard in the pocket, and the tape backs that up. Several of the sacks were his fault. And he'll improve on them.

If all of this makes me "out of my mind", then so be it I guess.

What I think you’re referring to is his “pocket eject” move (it has some other names too) where he turns his back and runs in a looping semi-circle pattern, and I mentioned his use of this earlier in the season. It’s become a pretty popular drill and move for agile qbs and It worked very well many times, but I was hoping opposing defenses or coordinators wouldn’t see the pattern of his reliance of the move. I suppose with the line we had, it might not have ultimately mattered, but he certainly used it a lot and it was much more effective early on than later in the season (altho the personnel was a little better then too ).

(03-21-2022, 05:18 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: [ -> ]If this line can drop the number to around 30- 40 with Burrow's style, that'd be a pretty big improvement in my book. Huge, actually.....

Exactly. Burrow will always take sacks, but 70?

That was Burrow's play style behind a terrible line.

If we give up 40 during an entire Super Bowl run, that's fine.

(03-21-2022, 06:33 PM)Dr.Z Wrote: [ -> ]What I think you’re referring to is his “pocket eject” move (it has some other names too) and I mentioned his use of this earlier in the season.   It worked many times and I was hoping opposing defenses or coordinators wouldn’t see the pattern of his reliance of the move.  I suppose with the line we had, it might not have ultimately mattered, but he certainly used it a lot and it was much more effective early on than later in the season (altho the personnel was a little better then too ).

Joe Brrr definitely has some things he needs to work on. He ain't perfect as KillerGoose here says.

He will be sacked more than most QB's the way he plays. 

But I would be sad if he took some of these things out of his game to boot. The big thing for me is he needs to throw the ball away
once things break down and not try to run for the first all the time. He takes unnecessary hits when he does this and honestly a lot 
of the time it is for nothing, a loss or only a minimal gain.

(03-21-2022, 06:39 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: [ -> ]Joe Brrr definitely has some things he needs to work on. He ain't perfect as KillerGoose here says.

He will be sacked more than most QB's the way he plays. 

But I would be sad if he took some of these things out of his game to boot. The big thing for me is he needs to throw the ball away
once things break down and not try to run for the first all the time. He takes unnecessary hits when he does this and honestly a lot 
of the time it is for nothing, a loss or only a minimal gain.

For sure, although he was kind of forced to use escape moves so often that it’s hard to keep the success rate up when your In the situations constantly due to incessant pressure.

(03-21-2022, 06:44 PM)Dr.Z Wrote: [ -> ]For sure, although he was kind of forced to use escape moves so often that it’s hard to keep the success rate up when your In the situations constantly due to incessant pressure.

It was kind of bred into him at LSU and now here. We will see how he adapts without constant pressure.

The thing about Brrr is he never panics even with this. I think he will be fine once he gets used to having some time.

(03-20-2022, 05:50 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: [ -> ]I can’t ignore a guy who couldn’t beat out Adeniji.

Here’s a hypothetical for you...

Let’s say a team has the best tackle and guard duos in the league, but their center was Russel Bodine

Would you just ignore that glaring hole?

Holy shit. It’s like you aren’t even the same guy saying we’d be wasting a pick drafting a quality lineman in the 1st round.

(03-21-2022, 05:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: [ -> ]I disagree.

Burrow will always take a lot of sacks because he holds onto the ball longer trying to make a play.  BUt Roethlisberger and Russell Wilson have Super Bowl rings and are going to the hall of fame despite taking too many sacks because they held onto the ball to long.

Even Aaron Rodgers led the league in sacks twice because of this style.  in 2012 he led the NFL in both sacks (51) and passer rating (108.)

Just to be clear, way too many of the sacks Burrow took were based on very poor pass blocking.  He is not responsible for all his sacks, and I want the number to be reduced with better pass blocking.

But as long as we have Chase and Burrow I will live with a few extra sacks because of all the big plays they can make.

(03-21-2022, 11:16 PM)Squintz Wrote: [ -> ]Holy shit. It’s like you aren’t even the same guy saying we’d be wasting a pick drafting a quality lineman in the 1st round.

Yeah, nothing is good enough for Frank Booth it seems. I like the guy but sometimes he is a bit hypocritical. 

(03-21-2022, 11:16 PM)Squintz Wrote: [ -> ]Holy shit. It’s like you aren’t even the same guy saying we’d be wasting a pick drafting a quality lineman in the 1st round.

The team isn’t going to relegate a 2nd round guard to the backup role for the next 2 seasons. They just arent

If they grab Linderbaum, great, it doesn’t make sense with the karras move

Either Carman is going to be a bench player his entire 4 years, or Karras is a backup until his contract is up. I don’t think the front office likes giving a guard with his salary a backup role

That’s all I’m saying. What I want is Quentin Spain back on a 1 year deal