Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise

(05-04-2022, 11:25 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: [ -> ]Has the pejorative "you people" been determined yet?

and here i thought it was Lou People... 

(05-04-2022, 06:07 PM)ATOTR Wrote: [ -> ]LOL. 

He has been  a DC for 4 seasons (1 interim DC). And his teams have finished: 

25th/32 in the NFL 2015 (total yards)

29/32 in 2019

26/32 in 2020

17/32 in 2021

Yeah, but look what he did when he got SOME semblance of talent...especially down the stretch.  I can't help but think one of the reasons every other team in the AFC West went all-in is because the Bengals showed the league how to defend Mahomes.  

His defense performed extremely well in the playoffs.  Now he has a few more pieces in the secondary, more pieces for the defensive line rotation, and lost only Larry O....Defense could very well be top 5 in the league next season.  Plus, an offense that will be that much more potent running the ball and maintaining possession due to the improvements on the line.

(05-04-2022, 07:40 PM)OSUfan Wrote: [ -> ]Notice the jump from '20 to '21 by being able to put his pieces on the field? That is the name of the game.

You could even list the improvement throughout the 2021 season as well.  By year's end, even without the likes of Kareem and Ossai for a better rotation, Logan Wilson playing injured, and Larry O being out, they were playing really well.  

I'm thrilled with where the roster sits today and that they retained their OC, DC, HC, and STC.

(05-04-2022, 08:54 PM)ATOTR Wrote: [ -> ]I never said they didn’t improve. I’m glad to see the trend

I took issue with the op saying Lou was  the Andy Reid of defensive coordinators.

What an absolute clown assertion.

You're right.  Andy Reid's arrow is pointing down, and Lou's is pointing up.  

I'm not ready to anoint him as a top DC in the league yet, but I do trust him and was saying - even before last season - that the personal he had to work with was a nearly impossible mission (same w Zac at that time). Even before last season, I saw a few things that gave a glimmer of hope with him, notably adjustments in a game vs Baltimore/Jackson and some late season adjustments to generate more pressure that same season.

(05-04-2022, 08:09 PM)ATOTR Wrote: [ -> ]I replied to the OP, with his quote about Andy Reid.   And showed how bad/mediocre Lou has been as a DC.  

Got it?  That OSU brain is struggling today, hu?

So last year he was a below avg, but not outright awful, DC.  I can see you’re thrilled

Gotta love the internet tough guy routine. I will refrain from stooping to your pathetic level.

Here it is in a nutshell. Lou has shown positive trends in his maturing as a DC. See here is the thing. As with anything we do in life be it school, work, or on a personal level there is a maturation that should take place. It is evident very frequently that this maturation unfortunately does not take place. With Lou the maturation is taking place and there are clear indications of this happening. As he evolves as a DC he is improving in putting together the players in place that fit the dynamics of the strategy that he wishes to employ.

This is indicated in the single year jump that was seen in total defense. This maturation was made evident in some very strategically successful in-game adjustments down the stretch. This success was also generated while losing key pieces that had been acquired to help make his strategies successful. All of these things point to him growth as a DC. 

Of course you certainly have the right to continue to bash the man rather than embrace the positives that are being built inside of this franchise.

(05-03-2022, 07:26 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: [ -> ]You people need to stop saying "you people".  

Lou has absolutely earned the benefit of the doubt and more.  I think the Bengals are so ahead of the curve right now, it is simply astonishing.  

The were out in front of "you need three elite WRs".  They were out in front on using a draft pick for a specialist (McPherson).  They are now out in front of building a FAST, versatile, and deep...I will just call it secondary....secondary room.  

The team has been built for success and the players have bought in to the scheme.  Dunlap looks like a bigger idiot than ever eating his chips on a zoom meeting.  Good riddance.  Guys that are all about the team and doing their job.  The results speak for themselves.  

This is my biggest thing. The Bengals are now setting the trends in the NFL and people are following. Its actually pretty unbelievable. 

(05-04-2022, 08:54 PM)ATOTR Wrote: [ -> ]I never said they didn’t improve. I’m glad to see the trend

I took issue with the op saying Lou was  the Andy Reid of defensive coordinators.

What an absolute clown assertion.

It wasn't supposed to be taken literally. 

Meaning...he's the Andy Reid of defense - coming up with unique schemes, inventing new ways to do things, etc. 

Sorry, guess that was above your head. 

(05-05-2022, 11:01 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: [ -> ]It wasn't supposed to be taken literally. 

Meaning...he's the Andy Reid of defense - coming up with unique schemes, inventing new ways to do things, etc. 

Sorry, guess that was above your head. 

He has never had a top 16 defense as a D coordinator, in yards allowed. 

guess that fact is above your head 

(05-05-2022, 10:40 AM)OSUfan Wrote: [ -> ]Gotta love the internet tough guy routine. I will refrain from stooping to your pathetic level.

Here it is in a nutshell. Lou has shown positive trends in his maturing as a DC. See here is the thing. As with anything we do in life be it school, work, or on a personal level there is a maturation that should take place. It is evident very frequently that this maturation unfortunately does not take place. With Lou the maturation is taking place and there are clear indications of this happening. As he evolves as a DC he is improving in putting together the players in place that fit the dynamics of the strategy that he wishes to employ.

This is indicated in the single year jump that was seen in total defense. This maturation was made evident in some very strategically successful in-game adjustments down the stretch. This success was also generated while losing key pieces that had been acquired to help make his strategies successful. All of these things point to him growth as a DC. 

Of course you certainly have the right to continue to bash the man rather than embrace the positives that are being built inside of this franchise.

I am not bashing him.  He has never had a good defense while he has been a D Coordinator. 

Last year, he was still below average, and you want to use that as a 'Trend'

Trends need more than a single date point, or a single year to be valid.   So, if they improve this year into a top 50% defense, then there may be something there. 

But, you're using one below average  year compared to 3 really awful years as your logic.  Lol

(05-02-2022, 02:09 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: [ -> ]The defense was the major reason the Bengals made it as far as they did in the playoffs. 

ONLY Reason.

(05-04-2022, 08:09 PM)ATOTR Wrote: [ -> ]I replied to the OP, with his quote about Andy Reid.   And showed how bad/mediocre Lou has been as a DC.  

Got it?  That OSU brain is struggling today, hu?

So last year he was a below avg, but not outright awful, DC.  I can see you’re thrilled

(05-04-2022, 08:54 PM)ATOTR Wrote: [ -> ]I never said they didn’t improve. I’m glad to see the trend

I took issue with the op saying Lou was  the Andy Reid of defensive coordinators.

What an absolute clown assertion.

(05-05-2022, 12:25 PM)ATOTR Wrote: [ -> ]He has never had a top 16 defense as a D coordinator, in yards allowed. 

guess that fact is above your head 

Just curious since you seem new here and something I have observed.  Why are you so rude?  I've been rude at times as well but it seems you make a point to do so.   For the most part we respect each other here and do our best to not insult others.   I don't speak for the community but my suggestion is if you want to discuss Bengals football in a meaningful way you dial down the insults a bit.

ANYONE that wants to point out how bad Lou's defense was a couple years ago needs to go back and look at what was on the field. There were occasions when we didn't even have a first or second string CB in the game. He also was missing most of the defensive line.

I said I'd reserve judgement on the guy until he had some players to work with. I will say this - he tends to make some pretty damn good adjustments on the fly. He showed that multiple times this year - and a couple in the playoffs.

(05-05-2022, 12:37 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: [ -> ]ONLY Reason.

Somewhat.  We were down 21-3 in the AFC title game.  The offense had plenty to do with that comeback.

(05-04-2022, 08:37 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: [ -> ]What about scoring defense?

25/32 2019
21/32 2020
13/32 2021


Looks like some improvement, then big jump again..

I'm excited to see how more improvement he can do this year.

Yep, and the defense he inherited was so bad, Marvin had to fire the DC and take over the job himself to keep it from breaking NFL records. The cupboard was bare.

(05-05-2022, 10:59 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: [ -> ]This is my biggest thing. The Bengals are now setting the trends in the NFL and people are following. Its actually pretty unbelievable. 

Kinda like when Buffalo copied Wyche and called it the "K-gun". It's been a long time since we were trendsetters.

(05-05-2022, 12:31 PM)ATOTR Wrote: [ -> ]I am not bashing him.  He has never had a good defense while he has been a D Coordinator. 

Last year, he was still below average, and you want to use that as a 'Trend'

Trends need more than a single date point, or a single year to be valid.   So, if they improve this year into a top 50% defense, then there may be something there. 

But, you're using one below average  year compared to 3 really awful years as your logic.  Lol

If you're using "yards allowed" as the only metric to judge a defense on then you're missing out on a ton. The defense carried this team the last few weeks of the season and through the playoffs. 

There's a lot more that goes into the quality of a defense than "yards allowed". These days, you don't need an elite or even above average defense to win games. You need a VERY good offense and a capable defense. Lou has definitely taken this defense from garbage to capable.

(05-05-2022, 01:46 PM)Wyche Wrote: [ -> ]Kinda like when Buffalo copied Wyche and called it the "K-gun". It's been a long time since we were trendsetters.

West Coast offense as well.

(05-05-2022, 02:36 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: [ -> ]If you're using "yards allowed" as the only metric to judge a defense on then you're missing out on a ton. The defense carried this team the last few weeks of the season and through the playoffs. 

There's a lot more that goes into the quality of a defense than "yards allowed". These days, you don't need an elite defense to win games. You need a VERY good offense and a capable defense. Lou has definitely taken this defense from garbage to capable.

One question I have is whether or not Cincinnati's defense will be able to maintain the improvement in turnovers they saw during the postseason. On a play by play basis, the defense was the exact same defense they were in the regular season. However, they forced a significant amount of turnovers.

• The Bengals defense allowed 5.5 yards per play in the playoffs and regular season.
• The defensive EPA per play was -0.01 in the regular season compared to -0.03 in the postseason. 
• The defense averaged a sack every 25 plays in both the regular season and postseason.
• The turnover rate in the regular season was a turnover every 51 plays compared to a turnover every 28 plays in the postseason. 
  

That is the only major difference between the two, and it is a powerful one. I am hoping with an extra year of experience and some of the additional youth in the secondary, we can see more turnovers this season. Otherwise, Cincinnati may be looking at another middle of the road defense. 

(05-05-2022, 02:55 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: [ -> ]One question I have is whether or not Cincinnati's defense will be able to maintain the improvement in turnovers they saw during the postseason. On a play by play basis, the defense was the exact same defense they were in the regular season. However, they forced a significant amount of turnovers.

• The Bengals defense allowed 5.5 yards per play in the playoffs and regular season.
• The defensive EPA per play was -0.01 in the regular season compared to -0.03 in the postseason. 
• The defense averaged a sack every 25 plays in both the regular season and postseason.
• The turnover rate in the regular season was a turnover every 51 plays compared to a turnover every 28 plays in the postseason. 
  

That is the only major difference between the two, and it is a powerful one. I am hoping with an extra year of experience and some of the additional youth in the secondary, we can see more turnovers this season. Otherwise, Cincinnati may be looking at another middle of the road defense. 

I think the turnover story with the Bengals is what ultimately defined their season. It's SUPER interesting. 

They were +-0 when it comes to plus/minus on the season. You could say the season shifted when Joe stopped throwing so many INTs. 
He only threw 3 picks during the last 7 games of the season after throwing 11 during the first 9. 

After the God awful first Cleveland game and when Joe acknowledged he needed to stop forcing things (week 9), they ended up +4 in the remaining games. The defense turned the other team over 12 times in the last 8 games of the season.

Then the defense went on a run where they turned the other team over during the playoffs at a clip of 9 turnovers in 4 games. 

No way the turnover rate in the playoffs is sustainable, but I would imagine something like what they did in the remaining 7 games could be sustainable for this defense. To me its not so much about the number of turnovers the defense gets, but its that coupled with the offense (Joe) taking care of the ball.