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With the recent LS drama... a recurring question I had was why do we need a LS when we have a Center that can snap the balls?
Why is it a different position?

(09-13-2022, 10:35 AM)kalibengal Wrote: [ -> ]With the recent LS drama... a recurring question I had was why do we need a LS when we have a Center that can snap the balls?
Why is it a different position?

Because it is a different position. 

Long snapping is a COMPLETELY different skillset. For the long snap, the speed and rotation of the ball are exponentially different than a standard center/qb exchange. Not many people can do this at the pro level consistently, which is why when teams find a good one they hold on to them for 14 years.

Long snapper is a different skill. I get having separate guys do both.

What I hope happens after Sunday’s debacle is that the team gives backup LS jobs to two different guys. Wilcox managed to do the really long punt LS we’ll enough to get by. He was trash on multiple attempts at the much shorter FG snap. I would think a center could learn that without too much difficulty.

Maybe they don’t want to waste time with their starting center learning that but a backup center should try to be as versatile as possible. Give Hill a look at backup FG snapper. No reason Wilcox should ever try another FG snap.

(09-13-2022, 10:49 AM)leonardfan40 Wrote: [ -> ]Long snapper is a different skill. I get having separate guys do both.

What I hope happens after Sunday’s debacle is that the team gives backup LS jobs to two different guys. Wilcox managed to do the really long punt LS we’ll enough to get by. He was trash on multiple attempts at the much shorter FG snap. I would think a center could learn that without too much difficulty.

Maybe they don’t want to waste time with their starting center learning that but a backup center should try to be as versatile as possible. Give Hill a look at backup FG snapper. No reason Wilcox should ever try another FG snap.

I am sure Mitchell Wilcox is fine on the sideline or in practice when there aren't guys lined up over him that smash into him after he snaps the ball. There aren't enough practice reps to get the starter and two backups a chance to get live reps and none of those reps are high pressure game time reps. Teams have one emergency person at each specialist position, thats the way the whole NFL does it because it just doesn't make sense beyond that.

We are wasting way too much time worrying about this. It's a once in a decade issue that we experienced and we now move on. 

(09-13-2022, 10:35 AM)kalibengal Wrote: [ -> ]With the recent LS drama... a recurring question I had was why do we need a LS when we have a Center that can snap the balls?
Why is it a different position?

I remember once some beat reporter asked Belichick why is Long Snapper a dedicated roster role...pretty much lays it out

https://youtu.be/jrvELlakyOk

One is a two handed line drive spiral about two feet off the ground. One is a one handed rising snap.

(09-13-2022, 10:56 AM)Au165 Wrote: [ -> ]I am sure Mitchell Wilcox is fine on the sideline or in practice when there aren't guys lined up over him that smash into him after he snaps the ball. There aren't enough practice reps to get the starter and two backups a chance to get live reps and none of those reps are high pressure game time reps. Teams have one emergency person at each specialist position, thats the way the whole NFL does it because it just doesn't make sense beyond that.

We are wasting way too much time worrying about this. It's a once in a decade issue that we experienced and we now move on. 

They aren't allowed to line up over him.

(09-13-2022, 10:56 AM)Au165 Wrote: [ -> ]I am sure Mitchell Wilcox is fine on the sideline or in practice when there aren't guys lined up over him that smash into him after he snaps the ball. There aren't enough practice reps to get the starter and two backups a chance to get live reps and none of those reps are high pressure game time reps. Teams have one emergency person at each specialist position, thats the way the whole NFL does it because it just doesn't make sense beyond that.

We are wasting way too much time worrying about this. It's a once in a decade issue that we experienced and we now move on. 

Practicing FG snaps and punt snaps wouldn’t take anything away from anybody if we had different backups for both snaps.

(09-13-2022, 10:35 AM)kalibengal Wrote: [ -> ]With the recent LS drama... a recurring question I had was why do we need a LS when we have a Center that can snap the balls?
Why is it a different position?

I remember Pally mentioning how the LS is so much lighter in weight and quicker, because they also need to run down the field and make tackles on punt attempts. Which is how Clark Harris got hurt in the first place. I notice that Adomitis is about 250 pounds (very light for a center) and has a number of tackles on his resume. 

So, it is not only a different skill set in terms of snapping the ball, but also the LS needs to be able to run fast and make tackles.

(09-13-2022, 10:39 AM)Mgbrown66 Wrote: [ -> ]Long snapping is a COMPLETELY different skillset.   For the long snap, the speed and rotation of the ball are exponentially different than a standard center/qb exchange.   Not many people can do this at the pro level consistently, which is why when teams find a good one they hold on to them for 14 years.

It's also performed completely different. LS used two hands, C uses one.

FWIW, Simmons stated that the snap wasn't the issue on the PAT block. Macpherson's timing was fine on the kick. He put the blame on the protection on the left side, saying it was maybe 25% Sample's fault. The other guy out there? Adeniji.

(09-13-2022, 10:56 AM)Au165 Wrote: [ -> ]I am sure Mitchell Wilcox is fine on the sideline or in practice when there aren't guys lined up over him that smash into him after he snaps the ball. There aren't enough practice reps to get the starter and two backups a chance to get live reps and none of those reps are high pressure game time reps. Teams have one emergency person at each specialist position, thats the way the whole NFL does it because it just doesn't make sense beyond that.

We are wasting way too much time worrying about this. It's a once in a decade issue that we experienced and we now move on. 

Plus we have Cal Adomits in the wings who could be a great LS himself. I am not worried.

(09-13-2022, 01:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: [ -> ]Plus we have Cal Adomits in the wings who could be a great LS himself. I am not worried.

Cal was All American, and regarded as the best LS pre draft. I'm not worried either.

(09-13-2022, 12:47 PM)Whatever Wrote: [ -> ]FWIW, Simmons stated that the snap wasn't the issue on the PAT block.  Macpherson's timing was fine on the kick.  He put the blame on the protection on the left side, saying it was maybe 25% Sample's fault.  The other guy out there?  Adeniji.

Mitch Wilcox was snapping...he wasn't in his usual blocking position. So maybe Clark's injury had an impact on the left side blocking as well

I always see a team needing to have a guy serviceable in these other positions in case the rare thing happens. The team escapes me, but they had their DB kicking this week. Chad Johnson even kick FG in the preseason. As mentioned before, Center and LS are two different types of athletes. Perhaps a LB could be trained up in it in an emergency setting.

Not saying the Bengals did anything wrong, just a thought I would have for those narrow skill positions.

(09-13-2022, 03:13 PM)Destro Wrote: [ -> ]I always see a team needing to have a guy serviceable in these other positions in case the rare thing happens. The team escapes me, but they had their  DB kicking this week. Chad Johnson even kick FG in the preseason. As mentioned before, Center and LS are two different types of athletes. Perhaps a LB could be trained up in it in an emergency setting.

Not saying the Bengals did anything wrong, just a thought I would have for those narrow skill positions.

Mitch Wilcox was the emergency long snapper.  He practices it.  But, what he doesn't get is game experience with nerves and adrenaline kicking in. He didn't make any egregious errors. He just doesn't do it regularly enough to have the timing down.  Just like your "emergency" kicker isn't going to be out there trying for a 50 yarder.  Logan Wilson, BTW, is the emergency kicker

(09-13-2022, 11:15 AM)michaelsean Wrote: [ -> ]They aren't allowed to line up over him.

They can immediately smash into him, my point is he gets hit (see how bad he was bent backwards when the kick was blocked).

My son played the position in elementary and high school. We sent him to Rubios long snapping camp which is the premier long snapping and kicker camps. All Rubios does is churn out college prospects. Believe me when I say it’s a entirely different skill set. All I did was observe and I was amazed.

This is when the discussion turns to the GOAT olineman the only person I'd consider over Munoz is Bruce Matthews.