(08-12-2023, 10:22 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: [ -> ]LMAO you are so funny and have no idea.
Can’t name one, huh?
Okay, how about an easier question? Just give the names of the lazy players you were talking about.
(08-13-2023, 12:53 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: [ -> ]Can’t name one, huh?
Okay, how about an easier question? Just give the names of the lazy players you were talking about.
Wasn’t told the names just in the early transition I was shared this. And my comment was “ coasting”
(08-08-2023, 08:57 PM)basballguy Wrote: [ -> ]It's hard to argue this without sounding like a hater so I'll say this.....in the moment, I thought ML was great for Bengals culture. After several years of reflection (post ML), he was part of the problem. He didn't change the culture, he was just a better coach than we were used to. the Bengals were still seen as "that team" that nobody wanted to play for.
I was a huge ZT hater early on but I sincerely think what ZT (and Bengals leadership) have done for the franchise is legit great for the culture. ML was just a change of pace. He should've been fired at the same time we dumped CP....which mostly echos your last statement.
Agree with everything here
I do think I overlook the effect of Katie taking control of the team. I don't pretend to know what went on between ML and MB. I know they had a great relationship but I also remember how stubborn MB seemed to be.
Sorry to be Debbie Downer, but I don't trust ZT yet. I think all the glory has to go to Joe Burrow. What is ZT's record without Burrow? Horrible that is what it is.
I will give credit to the Defense as well.
We found out last year we could win without Chase, but we can't win without Burrow.
ML was handcuffed by Mike Brown, I remember ML stated that Chris Henry was off the team and later had to recant because Mike Brown wanted him on the team.
(08-13-2023, 01:04 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry to be Debbie Downer, but I don't trust ZT yet. I think all the glory has to go to Joe Burrow. What is ZT's record without Burrow? Horrible that is what it is.
I will give credit to the Defense as well.
We found out last year we could win without Chase, but we can't win without Burrow.
ML was handcuffed by Mike Brown, I remember ML stated that Chris Henry was off the team and later had to recant because Mike Brown wanted him on the team.
I'm 100% okay with not trusting Taylor yet. I do for the most part, but I get it. That said, using Taylor's record without Burrow is kinda silly.
Taylor was most definitely part of a rebuild, and the roster was not only full of washed up players, it wasn't shaped to Taylor's vision. It was shaped to Marvin's.
I AM NOT SAYING TAYLOR IS BELICHICK. That said, when distributing credit, I think we can learn from Belichick without Brady.
Belichick is a great coach. The Pats without him right now would probably be competing for the #1 overall pick. With him, they're usually in the 8-8 range. With Brady, they're a SB contender.
________________
I'd say our roster is better than New England's (Zac has
something to do with that), but Zac is a worse X and O guy than Bill. It evens out. If we swapped Joe Burrow for Mac Jones, I still think this is an 8-8 team due to the roster quality and Taylor being a decent coach.
Joe is why this team is competing for Super Bowls, but to suggest that this team would be a 2-4 win team without Joe is giving too much credit to Joe and not enough to the roster and Zac.
(08-08-2023, 08:57 PM)basballguy Wrote: [ -> ]It's hard to argue this without sounding like a hater so I'll say this.....in the moment, I thought ML was great for Bengals culture. After several years of reflection (post ML), he was part of the problem. He didn't change the culture, he was just a better coach than we were used to. the Bengals were still seen as "that team" that nobody wanted to play for.
I was a huge ZT hater early on but I sincerely think what ZT (and Bengals leadership) have done for the franchise is legit great for the culture. ML was just a change of pace. He should've been fired at the same time we dumped CP....which mostly echos your last statement.
Agree with everything here
I do think I overlook the effect of Katie taking control of the team. I don't pretend to know what went on between ML and MB. I know they had a great relationship but I also remember how stubborn MB seemed to be.
Katie hired Marvin, not Mike.
(08-13-2023, 01:54 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: [ -> ]Katie hired Marvin, not Mike.
Seriously? You truly believe that Katie has been running this team for the past 20 years? GTFOH!
(08-13-2023, 01:54 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: [ -> ]Katie hired Marvin, not Mike.
No.
Mike Hired Marvin & Managed the team during Marvin's tenure. When that all finally fell apart it was Mike's last shot at the job of GM/Owner/Operator. Mike then ceded control of the org to Katie and has allowed her to run things. Katie hired Zac Taylor and has been the key piece running the org since Marvin stepped down.
(08-13-2023, 02:49 PM)SouthernFan Wrote: [ -> ]Seriously? You truly believe that Katie has been running this team for the past 20 years? GTFOH!
Yeah, it has only been the last few years where you can noticeably see that Katie and the Blackburns are running things.
The Marv tenure was all Mikey boy for the most part.
(03-14-2023, 11:48 AM)NotBigzo Wrote: [ -> ]Seriously.
How do we lose TWO starting safeties in day one, especially knowing that we're out of the market for one of them?
"We want to go younger" is just a euphemism for "we want to be cheap skates". Vonn Bell and Bates is what got us to the SB two years ago, LITERALLY. Look at that overtime interception.
If the Bengals decide to pay for one of the remaining good ones, it's STILL a downgrade. But I get a feeling that they're just fine with Tycen Anderson, which will be a disaster against the Bills and the Cheifs.
The Bengals can't afford to have its episodes of buttcheek offense anymore. The Defense won't be top 10 next season.
This feels a like more like a decline. The Bills and Cheifs addressed core issues day one. Bengals objectively are worse off.
What if our defensive backfield is actually better this year? How will we wrap our heads around that?
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(08-13-2023, 04:26 PM)maclanta Wrote: [ -> ]What if our defensive backfield is actually better this year? How will we wrap our heads around that?
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It looks pretty damn good. DJ Turner almost screwed up on 1 play that Dax saved him on, but these guys have serious speed and talent.
(08-13-2023, 01:38 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: [ -> ]I'm 100% okay with not trusting Taylor yet. I do for the most part, but I get it. That said, using Taylor's record without Burrow is kinda silly.
Taylor was most definitely part of a rebuild, and the roster was not only full of washed up players, it wasn't shaped to Taylor's vision. It was shaped to Marvin's.
I AM NOT SAYING TAYLOR IS BELICHICK. That said, when distributing credit, I think we can learn from Belichick without Brady.
Belichick is a great coach. The Pats without him right now would probably be competing for the #1 overall pick. With him, they're usually in the 8-8 range. With Brady, they're a SB contender.
________________
I'd say our roster is better than New England's (Zac has something to do with that), but Zac is a worse X and O guy than Bill. It evens out. If we swapped Joe Burrow for Mac Jones, I still think this is an 8-8 team due to the roster quality and Taylor being a decent coach.
Joe is why this team is competing for Super Bowls, but to suggest that this team would be a 2-4 win team without Joe is giving too much credit to Joe and not enough to the roster and Zac.
Hi Shake,
How are you, friend? I did not say without Burrow ZT would be 2-14 or any below .500 coach.
I did say I did not trust ZT yet and I still don't. I don't think the Bengals team the past two years even gets into the playoffs yet wins the games they did, if ZT does not have Burrow on the squad.
Reasons why the Bengals got into the playoffs and more were not in any order.
1. Burrow
2. Defense
3. Kicking game via our FG kicker McPherson
Again not in any particular order, however if any of the 3 mentioned above is off we are in trouble. Come to think, I don't ever remember Burrow in a shootout with another team.
That means our defense came to play.
So I liked ML, but his last few years as another member had written he was tired and it was time for a new HC. I wonder how ML would have prevailed with
Burrow as his QB and Katie as his boss?
(08-13-2023, 05:13 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Shake,
How are you, friend? I did not say without Burrow ZT would be 2-14 or any below .500 coach.
I did say I did not trust ZT yet and I still don't. I don't think the Bengals team the past two years even gets into the playoffs yet wins the games they did, if ZT does not have Burrow on the squad.
Reasons why the Bengals got into the playoffs and more were not in any order.
1. Burrow
2. Defense
3. Kicking game via our FG kicker McPherson
Again not in any particular order, however if any of the 3 mentioned above is off we are in trouble. Come to think, I don't ever remember Burrow in a shootout with another team. That means our defense came to play.
So I liked ML, but his last few years as another member had written he was tired and it was time for a new HC. I wonder how ML would have prevailed with
Burrow as his QB and Katie as his boss?
Not many coaches in the NFL playoff games without elite qbs. And the ones that do, have elite defense/rb combos.
(08-13-2023, 04:26 PM)maclanta Wrote: [ -> ]What if our defensive backfield is actually better this year? How will we wrap our heads around that?
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Our safeties won’t be better than Bates and Bell.
(08-13-2023, 07:33 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: [ -> ]Not many coaches in the NFL playoff games without elite qbs. And the ones that do, have elite defense/rb combos.
Which proves my point.
Andy Dalton was not an elite QB, neither was Carlson Palmer after 2005.
ML had these two and a host of loser QB's with his tenure here.
In addition 2021 Steelers had a washed-up noodle arm QB and a pathetic defense that was constantly being destroyed by.
Yet Tomlin guided his team to the playoffs. Could ZT take that same team in 2021 to the playoffs? Could he have guided the lowly Steelers last year above .500?
We all know that without Burrow on this team, we might finish last in this division.
(08-13-2023, 05:13 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Shake,
How are you, friend? I did not say without Burrow ZT would be 2-14 or any below .500 coach.
I did say I did not trust ZT yet and I still don't. I don't think the Bengals team the past two years even gets into the playoffs yet wins the games they did, if ZT does not have Burrow on the squad.
Reasons why the Bengals got into the playoffs and more were not in any order.
1. Burrow
2. Defense
3. Kicking game via our FG kicker McPherson
Again not in any particular order, however if any of the 3 mentioned above is off we are in trouble. Come to think, I don't ever remember Burrow in a shootout with another team. That means our defense came to play.
So I liked ML, but his last few years as another member had written he was tired and it was time for a new HC. I wonder how ML would have prevailed with
Burrow as his QB and Katie as his boss?
I think the WRs as a group have been more important than the kicking game. I agree that Burrow and the D have been huge factors in their success and Evan has been good in the clutch but how’d they get into FG range? Chase made some huge plays vs KC during the SB run. I don’t think you can put a solid kicking game over what he did in terms of importance and impact on the game.
(08-13-2023, 01:04 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry to be Debbie Downer, but I don't trust ZT yet. I think all the glory has to go to Joe Burrow. What is ZT's record without Burrow? Horrible that is what it is.
I will give credit to the Defense as well.
We found out last year we could win without Chase, but we can't win without Burrow.
ML was handcuffed by Mike Brown, I remember ML stated that Chris Henry was off the team and later had to recant because Mike Brown wanted him on the team.
This is a pretty dumb take. How do you know if we didn't have Burrow we wouldn't win? You have anything to back that up? We had a pretty crappy roster Zac's first year. Burrow is a big part of the team, but if he is all we need then why are we going to spend a lot of money on 2 WRs? Zac had a plan for this team and he got to build this team to that plan. I think the results speak for themselves.
(08-13-2023, 01:04 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry to be Debbie Downer, but I don't trust ZT yet. I think all the glory has to go to Joe Burrow. What is ZT's record without Burrow? Horrible that is what it is.
I will give credit to the Defense as well.
We found out last year we could win without Chase, but we can't win without Burrow.
ML was handcuffed by Mike Brown, I remember ML stated that Chris Henry was off the team and later had to recant because Mike Brown wanted him on the team.
now I cant prove it, but I guarantee Marvin Lewis wouldnt have the same success with Burrow that Taylor has had
(08-13-2023, 12:40 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: [ -> ]Wasn’t told the names just in the early transition I was shared this. And my comment was “ coasting”
Again, can’t name one. Just more unsourced, unverified, vague, nonspecific BS. Shared with you during the early transition before you jumped on the bandwagon?
If you’re, admittedly, not a good source of info about Marvin what makes you a good source of info on his players? Years before you jumped on the bandwagon? Especially since you can’t specify a single player you’re throwing under the bus?
(08-13-2023, 10:50 PM)sandwedge Wrote: [ -> ]This is a pretty dumb take. How do you know if we didn't have Burrow we wouldn't win? You have anything to back that up? We had a pretty crappy roster Zac's first year. Burrow is a big part of the team, but if he is all we need then why are we going to spend a lot of money on 2 WRs? Zac had a plan for this team and he got to build this team to that plan. I think the results speak for themselves.
That is an ugly stupid take. We didn't win prior to Burrow, more importantly, we were winning games during his rookie year BEFORE he was injured.
The other ugly stupid take is that using your logic the Bengals are going to spend a lot of money on Burrow than possibly two WRs.
Just admit it you are a Zac fanboy.
(08-13-2023, 10:53 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: [ -> ]now I cant prove it, but I guarantee Marvin Lewis wouldnt have the same success with Burrow that Taylor has had
How was Zac's record with Andy Dalton compared to Marvin Lewis's?