Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise

(04-19-2023, 09:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: [ -> ]I think Jefferson is slightly better than Tee.

I'd take Cook if we waived Mixon and Cook freed up.

Same energy as your use of "slightly".

(04-19-2023, 10:24 PM)jj22 Wrote: [ -> ]It is interesting they haven’t paid him. It’s a contract to keep an eye on as it relates to Chase. 

It's going to be interesting for certain, I do love the one quote from Jefferson about the whole extension process, "I'm not really too fond of money."

I'd love to hear that coming out of a top player's mouth.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35753361/vikings-gm-extension-wr-justin-jefferson-high-priority


Guy is legit, and if they upgrade at QB he's going to put up numbers no one is touching. Hell, he already is setting records with Cousins under center.

(04-19-2023, 10:10 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: [ -> ]JJ is just a phenomenal WR and would be no matter where or with who he played with. He was 1/3 of that historic LSU offense, and put up insane numbers even with Chase there.

(04-19-2023, 10:25 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: [ -> ]AJ Green was never 1st Team All-Pro, let alone Offensive Player of the Year.

Justin Jefferson is the best WR in football right now.

JJ got 80 more targets than the next closest receiver on that team.... and that other player has been consistantly banged up as well. Next guy, 3rd, in targes on the Vikkngs had 50% less targets than Jefferson.

He is a FABULOUS player, no doubt. But he is given a massive amount of touches to be able to reach those milestones. How else does one reach them is a fair question. He definitely put in the work, but he benefited from a broken down #2 & a slowed down Dalvin Cook.

JJ was my fsvorite receiver in that draft, Higgins was my 2nd. JJ is the better player, but I don't know if he would be getting 180+ targets a year on tbe Bengals, for example.

(04-20-2023, 12:04 AM)PDub80 Wrote: [ -> ]JJ got 80 more targets than the next closest receiver on that team.... and that other player has been consistantly banged up as well. Next guy, 3rd, in targes on the Vikkngs had 50% less targets than Jefferson.

He is a FABULOUS player, no doubt. But he is given a massive amount of touches to be able to reach those milestones. How else does one reach them is a fair question. He definitely put in the work, but he benefited from a broken down #2 & a slowed down Dalvin Cook.

JJ was my fsvorite receiver in that draft, Higgins was my 2nd. JJ is the better player, but I don't know if he would be getting 180+ targets a year on tbe Bengals, for example.

He does get a shit ton of targets, that’s a fair point. And one I’ve actually brought up when comparing him to Chase.

We saw the same thing a couple years ago when Kupp won the triple crown.

(04-20-2023, 12:04 AM)PDub80 Wrote: [ -> ]JJ got 80 more targets than the next closest receiver on that team.... and that other player has been consistantly banged up as well. Next guy, 3rd, in targes on the Vikkngs had 50% less targets than Jefferson.

He is a FABULOUS player, no doubt. But he is given a massive amount of touches to be able to reach those milestones. How else does one reach them is a fair question. He definitely put in the work, but he benefited from a broken down #2 & a slowed down Dalvin Cook.

JJ was my fsvorite receiver in that draft, Higgins was my 2nd. JJ is the better player, but I don't know if he would be getting 180+ targets a year on tbe Bengals, for example.

The flip side of that however is that there is no one else for the defense to really focus on.

He is the threat, and even knowing that and having coverage rolled his way, and a mid-level QB, the guy is still putting up the best numbers in football.

Line him up next to Higgins and Boyd with Burrow as his QB and I'd guess that his numbers would be even better with the less targets.

(04-19-2023, 10:23 PM)jj22 Wrote: [ -> ]Really?

https://fanspo.com/nfl/agents/todd-france/28450

Yea. We claimed him at cut down last year. Remember? 4th year player. On the 4th year of his rookie deal. We inherited a contract negotiated when he was a rookie. Agent didn’t do shit last year.

What you linked said 955k$ 21-22 season fyi

(04-20-2023, 12:04 AM)PDub80 Wrote: [ -> ]JJ got 80 more targets than the next closest receiver on that team.... and that other player has been consistantly banged up as well. Next guy, 3rd, in targes on the Vikkngs had 50% less targets than Jefferson.

He is a FABULOUS player, no doubt. But he is given a massive amount of touches to be able to reach those milestones. How else does one reach them is a fair question. He definitely put in the work, but he benefited from a broken down #2 & a slowed down Dalvin Cook.

JJ was my fsvorite receiver in that draft, Higgins was my 2nd. JJ is the better player, but I don't know if he would be getting 180+ targets a year on tbe Bengals, for example.

If you're carrying the offense on your back and you're still unstoppable and always open, that's a positive, not a negative. Calvin Johnson had 102 more targets than anyone else on his team when he put up 1,964 yards. How does that make him worse? People were triple teaming him because they knew he was getting the ball and he still caught it.



Antonio Brown's highest receiving yard season he had 101 more targets than anyone else on the team. 
Julio Jones' highest receiving yard season he had 106 more targets than anyone else on the team.
Jerry Rice's highest receiving yard season he had 66 more targets than anyone else on the team.
Randy Moss' highest receiving yard season he had 85 more targets than anyone else on the team.
Cooper Kupp when he won the receiver triple crown and carried his team to a SB win, had 102 more targets than anyone else on the team.

If a guy is open, you're going to keep throwing to him. If he's always open, he's going to end up with a huge workload. Of the top 15 targeted pass catchers last year, Justin Jefferson had the 2nd most separation on average according to NFL NGS. That's a weird paradox you're trying to pitch that a guy is worse because he's open more often, thus gets a higher workload.

(04-18-2023, 11:01 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: [ -> ]We've been burned far too much in the past decade for going with an unproven draft pick over the known commodity (Ogbuehi/Fisher over Whitworth, Shawn Williams over Nelson, Redmond/Hopkins over Zeitler, the list goes on), so yeah, I'm thumbing down a suggestion of a trade for picks all day, every day.

Also saw my Jays trade Halladay to the Phillies for Kyle the POS Drabek, Travis D'Arnaud whom we never used and traded him away (with Syndergaard) for R.A ******* Dickey and Michael Taylor (who never made it past AAA with us and had only 37 games in the majors, with negative WAR), while Halladay went on to pitch a perfect game, a No Hitter in the playoffs, win the Cy Young first time out and the jays had a shitty rotation for the next 3 years.

And then coming back to the NFL: the Colts never traded Wayne when they had Harrison. The Rams never traded Holt when they had Bruce. Ditto Tampa with Godwin and Evans.

Trade a #1 WR for picks and weaken our offense long term? **** that.

Well, we do draft WR's ten times better than OL. Just saying...

We did draft Tee and Boyd after all. But yeah, keeping the proven player in Tee might be the best thing to do. I just can understand 
someone wanting to invest in the trenches over keeping 2 top WR's. As the Harrison/Wayne scenario is the outlier and I think only to 
us because I think we can still win at least 1 Super Bowl with Chase/Tee.

Will be happy if/when Tee is extended as I know there is a plan in order to keep the trenches strong as well. I trust in this team.

This team is changing history, they will do it again while keeping 2 top WR's.

(04-19-2023, 09:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: [ -> ]I'd take Cook if we waived Mixon and Cook freed up.

Yes, please.

(04-20-2023, 01:55 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, please.

Same here, we know now who is clearly the better RB and pass protector now and it is Dalvin.

To Wyche out there...

You were right about Dalvin over Mixon in that draft buddy...

From Duke Tobin about Tee Higgins and Logan Wilson's contract negotiation process...

Quote:You can't predict if and when they'll get done. We're working to have as many good football players as we can.

ZimWhoDey has stopped discussing it for the most part. Someone tweeted at him saying "What happened to that Tee contract" and he said "Idk what did I say?" 
Swing and a miss. 

Lmao the homers in here downplaying Justin Jefferson

(04-20-2023, 04:53 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: [ -> ]Lmao the homers in here downplaying Justin Jefferson

Right? Dude is like the best reciever in the league and its not even that debatable. 

(04-19-2023, 09:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: [ -> ]I think Jefferson is slightly better than Tee.

I'd take Cook if we waived Mixon and Cook freed up.

Slightly better than Tee? In what world is he slightly better than Tee? 

I love Tee, but JJ is literally the best WR in football and a generational talent. A lot of you are over valuing how good he actually is.

There are games where Tee literally dissapears. When I look at Tee, I comp him to a guy like Marvin Jones Jr. Good reciever, not great. Can get seperation and make plays but doesnt have the ability to absolutely take over a game.

(04-20-2023, 05:10 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: [ -> ]Slightly better than Tee? In what world is he slightly better than Tee? 

I love Tee, but JJ is literally the best WR in football and a generational talent. I love Tee and think hes a fine reciever, but I feel like a lot of you are over valuing how good he actually is.

People are getting caught up in Tee's production as a second option vs. Jefferson's production as a first. The idea is basically "Well, Jefferson produces so much more because he is targeted so much more!" 

Which is true, yeah, but why is he targeted so much more? Because he is unguardable. He had 185 targets and caught 73% of them at 14 yards per catch. He is very consistent in getting YAC and forcing missed tackles. He can damage you from the slot and out wide. Down the field, in the middle of it or short. Contested catches? No problem, he has the size and ability to win those, too, just like Tee.

He can do everything that Tee does except he does it better and is able to do even more. The receivers I would put up there with Jefferson are Chase and Hill. Brown is also in that echelon. Tee isn't and I don't mean that as a knock on Tee, but he isn't even the best receiver on his own team. 

Tee sometimes "disappears" for the same reason Tyler Boyd does - they aren't throwing him the ball. Tee didn't disappear when Chase was out.

In fact, one thing about our struggles against 2 high that bugged me was our not using Boyd in the middle of the field to defeat the scheme. Ditto Tee.

(04-20-2023, 05:06 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: [ -> ]Right? Dude is like the best reciever in the league and its not even that debatable. 

It is a bit debatable that JJ is the best Receiver in the league, some could argue Tyreek, Brown, Adams, but he is the best young WR
in the league besides Chase who was injured last year for 4 games. Tee might be the best #2 WR in the league. This is where any 
comparison of Tee to any other WR should be made, the best #2 WR's....

(04-20-2023, 12:40 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: [ -> ]The flip side of that however is that there is no one else for the defense to really focus on.

He is the threat, and even knowing that and having coverage rolled his way, and a mid-level QB, the guy is still putting up the best numbers in football.

Line him up next to Higgins and Boyd with Burrow as his QB and I'd guess that his numbers would be even better with the less targets.

(04-20-2023, 01:37 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: [ -> ]If you're carrying the offense on your back and you're still unstoppable and always open, that's a positive, not a negative. Calvin Johnson had 102 more targets than anyone else on his team when he put up 1,964 yards. How does that make him worse? People were triple teaming him because they knew he was getting the ball and he still caught it.


Antonio Brown's highest receiving yard season he had 101 more targets than anyone else on the team. 
Julio Jones' highest receiving yard season he had 106 more targets than anyone else on the team.
Jerry Rice's highest receiving yard season he had 66 more targets than anyone else on the team.
Randy Moss' highest receiving yard season he had 85 more targets than anyone else on the team.
Cooper Kupp when he won the receiver triple crown and carried his team to a SB win, had 102 more targets than anyone else on the team.

If a guy is open, you're going to keep throwing to him. If he's always open, he's going to end up with a huge workload. Of the top 15 targeted pass catchers last year, Justin Jefferson had the 2nd most separation on average according to NFL NGS. That's a weird paradox you're trying to pitch that a guy is worse because he's open more often, thus gets a higher workload.

I'm not saying that JJ is bad or not as good because he gets a ton of targets. I am saying that his numbers are incredibly high because there was only 1 other guy taking significant targets away.

Targets DO NOT = He was open.

Target DO = Opportunity to catch



Catch % trivia... Which one below is Justin Jefferson? NO CHEATING....







A: 69.6% (2022)

B: 76.3% (CAREER)

C: 75.9% (2021)

D: 67.9% (2022)

E: 57.3 (CAREER)


My point to the above %s is that sometimes guys are wide open and are given the ball, but sometimes they are forced the ball due to lack of better options. The ball has to go to somebody. That was my point about AJ Green. Andy had so much faith in him that he was going to be thrown the ball no matter what. I think JJ got a ton of targets and got open, yes... but he isn't out there just burning everyone to get so open it's a can't miss. His catch % is very good, but his opportunities to cathc are ABSOLUTELY mind blowing compared to his teammates. So, he gets huge stats.

(04-20-2023, 02:05 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: [ -> ]Same here, we know now who is clearly the better RB and pass protector now and it is Dalvin.

To Wyche out there...

You were right about Dalvin over Mixon in that draft buddy...

I think it was pretty obvious at the time too. Didn't most of us want Cook?

(04-18-2023, 09:36 AM)jj22 Wrote: [ -> ]He was in town last week - Remember he was back from vacation to sign his contract per page 3 and 4! 

Rather I agree with the FO approach on re-signing Tee, I think they would if they could work with the agent. They can't work with that agent so I propose trading him to the Vikings for Justin Jefferson who is up for extension and who we could work with (agent - Todd France - who fenagled $3,922,206 out of them for Scharping this offseason!), and not upsetting Burrow by reuniting him with his LSU duo. Vikings can work with Tee's agent without issue.

This not reality..... I cannot put into words how you truly believe this is remotely fathomable.  We trading Tee AND Trey Hendrickson?  They probably wouldnt take that.