Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise

I personally think Burrow is 2nd to only Mahomes, but I’m just happy we have a consensus top 3 QB. Anyone putting him outside of that loses all credibility though.

(05-23-2023, 10:28 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: [ -> ]I personally think Burrow is 2nd to only Mahomes, but I’m just happy we have a consensus top 3 QB. Anyone putting him outside of that loses all credibility though.

I too think JB is #2, but I wouldn't take all credibility from someone making a case for Jalen Hurts. 

(05-23-2023, 10:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: [ -> ]I too think JB is #2, but I wouldn't take all credibility from someone making a case for Jalen Hurts. 

I would. Burrow with that Eagles OL, and those weapons (not that he doesn’t have his own) would be absolutely insane. Hell, he was a play or two away from winning the Super Bowl with an OL that had guys starting that probably wouldn’t make Philly’s practice squad.

I also need to see Hurts do it again. Burrow has now put up two elite seasons to Hurts’ one.

(05-24-2023, 12:03 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: [ -> ]I would. Burrow with that Eagles OL, and those weapons (not that he doesn’t have his own) would be absolutely insane. Hell, he was a play or two away from winning the Super Bowl with an OL that had guys starting that probably wouldn’t make Philly’s practice squad.

I also need to see Hurts do it again. Burrow has now put up two elite seasons to Hurts’ one.

Yeah, you already said that, but as long as you're being open-minded about it...

I'm still not taking all credibility from those that would put him in the top 3 conversation. His Superbowl performance ranks at the top of any I've ever seen.
https://sports.yahoo.com/eagles-qb-jalen-hurts-lands-225258007.html#:~:text=ESPN%20recently%20ranked%20the%20top,and%20Josh%20Allen%20(2).

Quote:ESPN recently ranked the top 100 most valuable players in the NFL, and Eagles All-Pro quarterback Jalen Hurts landed at No. 3 overall behind Patrick Mahomes (1) and Josh Allen (2).

(05-24-2023, 01:02 AM)bfine32 Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, you already said that, but as long as you're being open-minded about it...

I'm still not taking all credibility from those that would put him in the top 3 conversation. His Superbowl performance ranks at the top of any I've ever seen.
https://sports.yahoo.com/eagles-qb-jalen-hurts-lands-225258007.html#:~:text=ESPN%20recently%20ranked%20the%20top,and%20Josh%20Allen%20(2).

Maybe taking all credibility away was a bit of an overstatement. I’ll rephrase and say I think it would be premature to move Hurts ahead of Burrow at this point. Like I mentioned, I need to see it again.

I look at a guy like Lamar who hasn’t really ever been able to match his MVP season, so I have a bit more of a question mark with QB’s that play that style.

(05-24-2023, 12:03 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: [ -> ]I would. Burrow with that Eagles OL, and those weapons (not that he doesn’t have his own) would be absolutely insane. Hell, he was a play or two away from winning the Super Bowl with an OL that had guys starting that probably wouldn’t make Philly’s practice squad.

I also need to see Hurts do it again. Burrow has now put up two elite seasons to Hurts’ one.

The argument that Burrow has accomplished as much or more, with less talent around him, is a tough sell when the team has what most would consider to be two (2) WR1s on the field.  Now, the OL part has some legit merit to it.  Two years in a row, having substandard OLmen on the field cost the Bengals at the Championship level.

(05-24-2023, 01:14 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe taking all credibility away was a bit of an overstatement. I’ll rephrase and say I think it would be premature to move Hurts ahead of Burrow at this point. Like I mentioned, I need to see it again.

I look at a guy like Lamar who hasn’t really ever been able to match his MVP season, so I have a bit more of a question mark with QB’s that play that style.

Fair enough, but at this point you told me: "bfine you've just been awarded the newest NFL Franchise (The Ft Knox fine 11). As your QB you get to choose between Josh Allen and Jalen Hurts". I very well may pick Hurts. 

(05-23-2023, 05:00 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: [ -> ]I think what a lot of people are overlooking is just how bad our line has been compared to the Bills' o-line.

Burrow was among the least amount of time to throw from the pocket at 2.2 seconds and Allen had 2.5 seconds, which may not seem like a lot, but the NFL is bang-bang and 2.2 seconds to throw is ranked something like 50th. 

If our line protects Burrow even at an average rate, he'll be the top quarterback in the league........ EASY.

The Bills did not have a good OL last year.

Per Pro Football Network article for ranked OLs going into this year, here's what they had to say about Bills' OL last season:

Quote:Dawkins was the only above-average member of Buffalo’s offensive line last season. The Bills added reinforcements along the interior — where they were greatly needed — by signing McGovern and drafting Torrence, both of whom could signal that Buffalo wanted to get better at run blocking moving forward. Brown needs to become more consistent at right tackle or risk being replaced in 2024.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/best-offensive-lines-nfl-rankings/



At the end of the 2022 season, PFF ranked BUF as the 23rd OL. They ranked CIN 28th.
So better, yes, but not by a whole bunch.
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2022-nfl-offensive-line-rankings

(05-24-2023, 01:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: [ -> ]Fair enough, but at this point you told me: "bfine you've just been awarded the newest NFL Franchise (The Ft Knox fine 11). As your QB you get to choose between Josh Allen and Jalen Hurts". I very well may pick Hurts. 

I dunno if I'd go with Hurts, personally.

Both he and Allen run about the same.

2022:
Allen - 762 yards (6.1 YPC), 7 TDs
Hurts - 760 yards (4.6 YPC), 13 TDs

Passing wise, Allen is better.

Total TDs for each guy last year:
Allen - 42
Hurts - 35

Hurts only 6 INTs to Allen's 14 last year though.

Hurts is good, but I wanna see that next step for him, or at least show he can keep consistent with his 2022 performance.
Hurts I think looked better because he had a better OL, defense, and RB with him compared to Allen (and Burrow).
And I think Hurts had better offensive weapons around him in general last year. Brown+Smith+Goedert+Sanders > Diggs+Davis+Knox+Singletary/Cook


We'll see how well Hurts does with Swift+Penny at RB this year now that Sanders is a Panther.
Allen now has Kincaid at TE to go along with Diggs, Davis, and Knox, but Singletary is now gone at RB. Time for Cook to carry more of the load or continue RBBC with Murray, Harris, and Hines.

(05-24-2023, 01:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: [ -> ]Fair enough, but at this point you told me: "bfine you've just been awarded the newest NFL Franchise (The Ft Knox fine 11). As your QB you get to choose between Josh Allen and Jalen Hurts". I very well may pick Hurts. 

.


Age alone could cause someone to go with Hurts along with the New Franchise.

Allen turned 27 this May and Hurts is 24 and will be 25 in August.

I rank Allen ahead of Hurts but I can see where they could be viewed as close enough to each other in talent that someone could do as you say 

and they "very well may pick Hurts".

(05-24-2023, 03:52 PM)depthchart Wrote: [ -> ].


Age alone could cause someone to go with Hurts along with the New Franchise.

Allen turned 27 this May and Hurts is 24 and will be 25 in August.

I rank Allen ahead of Hurts but I can see where they could be viewed as close enough to each other in talent that someone could do as you say 

and they "very well may pick Hurts".

I don't personally like to do rankings, as I think it gets too ticky-tack.
I prefer tier lists instead.

I'd put Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, and maybe Rodgers (although we'll see how much he may fall off with NYJ) in that elite tier. Rodgers I think only plays for another 2, maybe 3 years though.

If Jalen Hurts stays consistent to his 2022 performance or gets even better, I'm inclined to move him into that same tier, but he's near the top of the "good" tier for me right now.
Trevor Lawrence and Tua Tagovailoa are similar boat to Hurts, for me. I liked what I saw last year, but I wanna see it again, or even better.

Dak Prescott is comfortably in the good tier along with Lamar Jackson and Justin Herbert, for me.

(05-24-2023, 03:52 PM)depthchart Wrote: [ -> ].


Age alone could cause someone to go with Hurts along with the New Franchise.

Allen turned 27 this May and Hurts is 24 and will be 25 in August.

I rank Allen ahead of Hurts but I can see where they could be viewed as close enough to each other in talent that someone could do as you say 

and they "very well may pick Hurts".

As i mentioned earlier Hurts Superbowl performance was a once in a lifetime. That carries a lot of weight for me. 

(05-24-2023, 04:30 PM)ochocincos Wrote: [ -> ]I don't personally like to do rankings, as I think it gets too ticky-tack.
I prefer tier lists instead.

I'd put Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, and maybe Rodgers (although we'll see how much he may fall off with NYJ) in that elite tier. Rodgers I think only plays for another 2, maybe 3 years though.

If Jalen Hurts stays consistent to his 2022 performance or gets even better, I'm inclined to move him into that same tier, but he's near the top of the "good" tier for me right now.
Trevor Lawrence and Tua Tagovailoa are similar boat to Hurts, for me. I liked what I saw last year, but I wanna see it again, or even better.

Dak Prescott is comfortably in the good tier along with Lamar Jackson and Justin Herbert, for me.

I prefer the Tier List approach also.

Even with that you never know when a QB may jump up or down a Tier.

I remember watching Hurts and the Eagles in their 2022 Playoff loss to the Bucs and thinking that both the Eagles & Hurts had a long way 

to go before becoming really good. I was almost embarrassed for them during that 2022 Playoff game.

The next season they are in the 2023 Super Bowl and Hurts was looking like a different player.

Burrow is the better passer between the two and the better Decision maker. Thats what really matters at the end of the day.

At the end of the day it's 3rd and 7 , on your 40 yardline, at the 2:00 minute warning your up by 3 points, and the opposing team has zero Timeouts left. Who would rather have as your QB Burrow or Allen to ice the game with a 3rd down conversion?

Everyone in the league is taking Burrow! Hell I'm not even sure the Bills would want Allen to throw a pass in that situation.

(05-24-2023, 05:52 PM)J24 Wrote: [ -> ]Burrow is the better passer between the two and the better Decision maker. Thats what really matters at the end of the day.

At the end of the day it's 3rd and 7 , on your 40 yardline, at the 2:00 minute warning your up by 3 points, and the opposing team has zero Timeouts left.   Who would rather have as your QB Burrow or Allen to ice the game with a 3rd down conversion?

Everyone in the league is taking Burrow! Hell I'm not even sure the Bills would want Allen to throw a pass in that situation.

True, and this is even with the OL's that Burrow has had the last few years which have been pretty bad. I know Ochocincos shown 
that the Bills OL isn't good either, but the OL's in front of Burrow have been pretty horrid. Hurts benefits from the best OL in the NFL
and Mahomes has a pretty damn good one himself. Cannot wait to see Burrow behind a decent OL. Could happen this year, yah never
know...

(05-24-2023, 01:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: [ -> ]The Bills did not have a good OL last year.

Per Pro Football Network article for ranked OLs going into this year, here's what they had to say about Bills' OL last season:
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/best-offensive-lines-nfl-rankings/



At the end of the 2022 season, PFF ranked BUF as the 23rd OL. They ranked CIN 28th.
So better, yes, but not by a whole bunch.
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2022-nfl-offensive-line-rankings

Allen is also a lot more mobile, so he doesn't need as good of blocking.

Burrow ahead of Allen at #2 in this one.

Top 10 Best Quarterbacks in the NFL ranked by Executives, Players, Coaches and Scouts, via @JFowlerESPN
https://t.co/ecMVXoPlkq

1) #Chiefs Patrick Mahomes
2) #Bengals Joe Burrow
3) #Bills Josh Allen
4) #Jets Aaron Rodgers
5) #Chargers Justin Herbert
6) #Eagles Jalen Hurts
7)… pic.twitter.com/ee8vetKTmX

— Dov Kleiman (@NFL_DovKleiman) July 17, 2023

(05-24-2023, 01:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: [ -> ]Fair enough, but at this point you told me: "bfine you've just been awarded the newest NFL Franchise (The Ft Knox fine 11). As your QB you get to choose between Josh Allen and Jalen Hurts". I very well may pick Hurts. 

If I'm starting a team, there is no way I would take Hurts ahead of Allen.  

Hurts looked VERY average before last year.  Then he looks really good with an elite offensive roster around him.  I don't think Hurts is a guy that will ever take an average roster on his back and get them to the playoffs.  He's just not that guy in my opinion.

We've seen Allen do that to a certain extent.  I'm very interested to see what Hurts does this year, just like I was very interested to see what Burrow would do the year after he put up his first very good year.

To be fair Hurts had a totally stacked OL around him last year plus talent at RB, TE and RB. And also while he had an okay Super Bowl he also had a bad fumble that was returned for what turned out to be the winning score. Add in that Philly had a weak schedule and I want to see him against real competition over a whole season.

(07-17-2023, 02:28 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: [ -> ]If I'm starting a team, there is no way I would take Hurts ahead of Allen.  

Hurts looked VERY average before last year.  Then he looks really good with an elite offensive roster around him. I don't think Hurts is a guy that will ever take an average roster on his back and get them to the playoffs.  He's just not that guy in my opinion.

We've seen Allen do that to a certain extent.  I'm very interested to see what Hurts does this year, just like I was very interested to see what Burrow would do the year after he put up his first very good year.

I also would undoubtedly take Allen over Hurts but as to your point in bold; Allen was pretty mediocre himself his first couple seasons.