(12-04-2023, 01:04 PM)Jpoore Wrote: [ -> ]Whispers* bowers would be in a rotation year 1 too
Who's he going to rotate with? Wilcox? Bowers plays 85% of the offensive snaps easily barring injury.
(12-04-2023, 10:02 AM)Synric Wrote: [ -> ]Yes Bengals have needs TE is one also. It's not about drafting a TE in round 1 it's about at what point does the talent of Brock Bowers make it impossible to pass up.
If both top tackles are gone in Alt and Fashanu are you going to draft the 3rd highest tackle? Are you going to take a 3T or a corner to rotate with the Bengals starters? Or will you take the blue chip TE/Slot Receiver prospect?
If the Bengals are picking top 10 which is possible My board would look something like Marvin Harrison Jr, Joe Alt, Olu Fashanu, Brock Bowers, Trade Back, Jer'zhan Newton.
You don't have Rome Odunze in there? This guy impresses me even more than Marvin Harrison Jr and that is saying something...
(12-04-2023, 01:03 PM)Jpoore Wrote: [ -> ]Yes Newton natural position would be 3-tech but he could play NT in a pinch. Newton had ELITE movement and flexibility,also I firmly believe tyliek Williams finishes as dt2. Also, you’re massively hating on te class. There some damn good te. At the end of day though I believe 3-tech in rds1-2 and te in 3 benefit us much more than te in 1.
I'm not hating on Newton he has good core strength fast hands and naturally understands his leverages I would call him only a plus athlete though. There's a notable difference between Newton and Leonard Taylor if you watch them back to back. Taylor might still go ahead of Newton after the combine testing and measurements. He would be a good trade back target if they wanted to collect more top 100 picks.
I'm saying there is no TE class. Brock Bowers is a top 10 prospect dominated the SEC since he was an 18 year old true freshman. Then Cade Stover and JT Sanders are probabaly the only other top 100 prospects. After that well you're definitely gambling if you want a starter I like Theo Johnson.
(12-04-2023, 03:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: [ -> ]You don't have Rome Odunze in there? This guy impresses me even more than Marvin Harrison Jr and that is saying something...
Rome! Yea dude reminds me so much of Tee. Great route runner, strong, uses every inch of his length, hands. He will probabaly test close to Tee too though maybe a little better. (Also same reasons I believe Tee is worth the 23m and has first round value.)
It's going to be a great draft class in 2024 hopefully the Bengals take advantage
(12-04-2023, 04:02 PM)Synric Wrote: [ -> ]Rome! Yea dude reminds me so much of Tee. Great route runner, strong, uses every inch of his length, hands. He will probabaly test close to Tee too though maybe a little better. (Also same reasons I believe Tee is worth the 23m and has first round value.)
It's going to be a great draft class in 2024 hopefully the Bengals take advantage
Reminds me more of Davante Adams in his route running honestly, just natural, but does have more of Tee's size. Bigger than
Davante. Yes, great draft class especially for WR and DT early. Good thing these are exactly the positions we need to address
besides OL of course. I do like your guy Malachi Corley in the 2nd round if he falls that far. You are right, he is a lot like Deebo.
(12-04-2023, 03:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: [ -> ]You don't have Rome Odunze in there? This guy impresses me even more than Marvin Harrison Jr and that is saying something...
Woah….. you went way to far there. I love Rome but nah…
(12-04-2023, 03:57 PM)Synric Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not hating on Newton he has good core strength fast hands and naturally understands his leverages I would call him only a plus athlete though. There's a notable difference between Newton and Leonard Taylor if you watch them back to back. Taylor might still go ahead of Newton after the combine testing and measurements. He would be a good trade back target if they wanted to collect more top 100 picks.
I'm saying there is no TE class. Brock Bowers is a top 10 prospect dominated the SEC since he was an 18 year old true freshman. Then Cade Stover and JT Sanders are probabaly the only other top 100 prospects. After that well you're definitely gambling if you want a starter I like Theo Johnson.
Newton never even makes it to 14 in a lot of mock simulators(for whatever that is worth) and again in my opinion, Newton makes a DAY 1 impact where bowers dosent… again bowers is PHENOMENAL. But I’m not drafting bowers to catch screens and 5 yard outs which is what the te position is in our offense. I doubt Taylor changes the offense unfortunately. If I felt Taylor would change it I may feel differently. Also we have vastly different opinions of Newton. I think he’s gonna be elite.
(12-04-2023, 07:23 PM)Jpoore Wrote: [ -> ]Woah….. you went way to far there. I love Rome but nah…
I getcha, Marvin Harrison Jr is a stud. I have actually seen him disappear in a few games this year though, unlike Rome when I
watched him play so I gotta little more bias for Rome. Plus I am not an OSU fan, but no one can deny that Marvin Harrison Jr is
the best WR to come out this year. But I love me some Rome Odunze just the same.
(12-04-2023, 02:42 PM)Whatever Wrote: [ -> ]Saying Newton can play NT in a pinch is like saying Cam Sample can play NT in a pinch. While technically true, they'd just get dominated. The NT has to play multiple gaps and eat double teams. Newton is a one gap player who lacks the length, size, and power to eat double teams.
There's only 2 TE's in the Top 100 prospects and only 5 in the Top 150. This TE class has zero depth at all. It's Bowers, then a cliff ledge. You seriously going to roll into Round 3 praying you can reach for the #103 overall prospect in Stover with a pick that's going to be in the 70's?
A: saying stover would be a reach in rd3 is insane. Stover would be a steal in rd3. And yes Newton wouldn’t be a NT, but he has positional versatility 0-7. Also not sure whose big boards you’re referencing as bleacher report has him at 64 on their big board(and about 30 spots higher than sanders for what it’s worth). Would I like bowers? Sure. He’s an elite prospect. But not in our offense with how we utilize te.
(12-04-2023, 02:45 PM)Whatever Wrote: [ -> ]Who's he going to rotate with? Wilcox? Bowers plays 85% of the offensive snaps easily barring injury.
Sure about that? Wouldn’t be surprising to have. A 60% snap share at best.
(12-04-2023, 07:28 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: [ -> ]I getcha, Marvin Harrison Jr is a stud. I have actually seen him disappear in a few games this year though, unlike Rome when I
watched him play so I gotta little more bias for Rome. Plus I am not an OSU fan, but no one can deny that Marvin Harrison Jr is
the best WR to come out this year. But I love me some Rome Odunze just the same.
I think the disappearing games were more sub par qb play than MHJ. Like I said I LOVE me some rome he’s wr2 pretty easily for me, but MHJ is on another level. Jamar chase level.
(12-05-2023, 02:30 AM)Jpoore Wrote: [ -> ]A: saying stover would be a reach in rd3 is insane. Stover would be a steal in rd3. And yes Newton wouldn’t be a NT, but he has positional versatility 0-7. Also not sure whose big boards you’re referencing as bleacher report has him at 64 on their big board(and about 30 spots higher than sanders for what it’s worth). Would I like bowers? Sure. He’s an elite prospect. But not in our offense with how we utilize te.
Sure about that? Wouldn’t be surprising to have. A 60% snap share at best.
I think the disappearing games were more sub par qb play than MHJ. Like I said I LOVE me some rome he’s wr2 pretty easily for me, but MHJ is on another level. Jamar chase level.
Stover is currently #106 on the NFL Consensus Big Board, which is his average ranking among all the major scouting services. Some team may reach for him, as he's still the #3 TE in this class, so you can't even count on him being there.
The TE's role in the offense changes based on what his strengths are. Again, Uzomah wasn't used the same way as Hurst.
Hurst played 61% of the snaps and missed 4 games, nearly 1/4 of the season. CJ played 77%. You have to go back to Michael Johnson to find a rookie DL that played at least 60% of the snaps for us.
(12-04-2023, 03:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: [ -> ]You don't have Rome Odunze in there? This guy impresses me even more than Marvin Harrison Jr and that is saying something...
If Bengals don't have Higgins in their long-term plans, I'm putting my money on WR or OT as the 1st round pick based on who is available.
As much as I'd love to have Bowers (I've always wanted a TE good enough to be 2nd option in the passing game), I think it'd be ok to retain Hudson (who is clearly the TE1 at this point) and Sample (as blocker) and then draft a TE middle rounds.
(12-05-2023, 02:30 AM)Jpoore Wrote: [ -> ]I think the disappearing games were more sub par qb play than MHJ. Like I said I LOVE me some rome he’s wr2 pretty easily for me, but MHJ is on another level. Jamar chase level.
I agree, Rome has a much better QB in Penix.
(12-05-2023, 01:02 PM)ochocincos Wrote: [ -> ]If Bengals don't have Higgins in their long-term plans, I'm putting my money on WR or OT as the 1st round pick based on who is available.
As much as I'd love to have Bowers (I've always wanted a TE good enough to be 2nd option in the passing game), I think it'd be ok to retain Hudson (who is clearly the TE1 at this point) and Sample (as blocker) and then draft a TE middle rounds.
Same. WR or OT should be the 1st round pick this year looking at our needs and the talent. I don't think Tee is in their long term plans.
There would of been a contract before this season if he was. Chase is our long term WR.
And yes, keep Hudson and Sample. They shown their value again last night in that surprise win in Jacksonville. Great game BTW.
Sucks for the Jags though, probably ruined their season similar to the Ravens game for us.
(12-05-2023, 12:52 PM)Whatever Wrote: [ -> ]Stover is currently #106 on the NFL Consensus Big Board, which is his average ranking among all the major scouting services. Some team may reach for him, as he's still the #3 TE in this class, so you can't even count on him being there.
The TE's role in the offense changes based on what his strengths are. Again, Uzomah wasn't used the same way as Hurst.
Hurst played 61% of the snaps and missed 4 games, nearly 1/4 of the season. CJ played 77%. You have to go back to Michael Johnson to find a rookie DL that played at least 60% of the snaps for us.
If we’re gonna play that route when is the last rookie te to play a significant margin? Drew sample played 9.8% as a rookie and he was a 2nd round pick. Eifert played 59% but we ran a lot of 2 TE personnel. Gresham. Played 79%
Sam Hubbard played right at 50% and he has 2 established veteran des ahead of him. We also haven’t had a high round pick at Dline besides this year. Newton would come in and immediately push for legit 3-tech snaps. Bowers would be PHENOMENAL. But so would Newton. I just prefer DT as it is the more immediate need. ESPECIALLY with how garbage the defense, and particularly the dline has looked this year.
(12-05-2023, 02:42 PM)Jpoore Wrote: [ -> ]If we’re gonna play that route when is the last rookie te to play a significant margin? Drew sample played 9.8% as a rookie and he was a 2nd round pick. Eifert played 59% but we ran a lot of 2 TE personnel. Gresham. Played 79%
Sam Hubbard played right at 50% and he has 2 established veteran des ahead of him. We also haven’t had a high round pick at Dline besides this year. Newton would come in and immediately push for legit 3-tech snaps. Bowers would be PHENOMENAL. But so would Newton. I just prefer DT as it is the more immediate need. ESPECIALLY with how garbage the defense, and particularly the dline has looked this year.
The probable reality is that any rookie drafted unless slotted into a hole vacated by a departing FA is going to get limited snaps.
There could potentially be a hole at WR (WR2 or slot), RT, NT, and TE.
FA will dictate where the holes are somewhat, but there should be a good player at one of the above positions in Rd 1 where the Bengals pick.
I seen a ton of failed outside screens last night horrendous blocking... Do you know who is really good screen blocker from multiple alignments TE or WR?
Brock Bowers.
(12-05-2023, 03:12 PM)Synric Wrote: [ -> ]I seen a ton of failed outside screens last night horrendous blocking... Do you know who is really good screen blocker from multiple alignments TE or WR?
Brock Bowers.
Sure hope he falls to us, we actually might win a lot more games than I thought after last night and seeing Browning play well.
But yeah, we need better blocking from our TE's and WR's in the outside running game and on screens.
(12-05-2023, 03:12 PM)Synric Wrote: [ -> ]I seen a ton of failed outside screens last night horrendous blocking... Do you know who is really good screen blocker from multiple alignments TE or WR?
Brock Bowers.
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media0.giphy.com/media/7Xmgrc6ty9XlZU6h2M/giphy.gif)
Synric for President!
On top of all that, Bowers is so athletic and, with how he can just jump and catch balls at the high point, he'd be a nightmare for defenses and Burrow's best friend behind Chase.
As I've mentioned so much, our line will hopefully be improved, but it likely still won't be too great and Bowers would be the ultimate safety net and outlet for Burrow.
His burst, like his athleticism, is very rare for a tight end and is a game-changing trait.
(12-05-2023, 03:06 PM)ochocincos Wrote: [ -> ]The probable reality is that any rookie drafted unless slotted into a hole vacated by a departing FA is going to get limited snaps.
There could potentially be a hole at WR (WR2 or slot), RT, NT, and TE.
FA will dictate where the holes are somewhat, but there should be a good player at one of the above positions in Rd 1 where the Bengals pick.
Correct! Fa will dictate everything.
(12-05-2023, 03:12 PM)Synric Wrote: [ -> ]I seen a ton of failed outside screens last night horrendous blocking... Do you know who is really good screen blocker from multiple alignments TE or WR?
Brock Bowers.
So is Cade stover and you can get him 2 rounds later. And he’s a significantly better blocker
(12-05-2023, 04:09 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: [ -> ]
Synric for President!
On top of all that, Bowers is so athletic and, with how he can just jump and catch balls at the high point, he'd be a nightmare for defenses and Burrow's best friend behind Chase.
As I've mentioned so much, our line will hopefully be improved, but it likely still won't be too great and Bowers would be the ultimate safety net and outlet for Burrow.
His burst, like his athleticism, is very rare for a tight end and is a game-changing trait.
So is Cade stover, slightly less athletic but still very very athletic and a significantly better blocker.
(12-05-2023, 08:07 PM)Jpoore Wrote: [ -> ]Correct! Fa will dictate everything.
So is Cade stover and you can get him 2 rounds later. And he’s a significantly better blocker
So is Cade stover, slightly less athletic but still very very athletic and a significantly better blocker.
I like Stover and hope we pick him in the mid rounds if we don't get Bowers, but you are such an OSU homer Jpoore lol
Bowers is on another level as a pass catcher than Stover and WAY more athletic, not slightly more.
(12-05-2023, 08:07 PM)Jpoore Wrote: [ -> ]Correct! Fa will dictate everything.
So is Cade stover and you can get him 2 rounds later. And he’s a significantly better blocker
So is Cade stover, slightly less athletic but still very very athletic and a significantly better blocker.
I do love Stover but that's because I'm an Ohio State homer lol
I love that he's more of a physical tight end but I just don't think he's nearly as athletic or nearly as much of a receiving threat.
(12-05-2023, 08:41 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: [ -> ] I do love Stover but that's because I'm an Ohio State homer lol
I love that he's more of a physical tight end but I just don't think he's nearly as athletic or nearly as much of a receiving threat.
Yeah, we don't need to cloud the fact that Bowers is probably the best TE to come out since Pitts out of homerism.
Stover I think would do well here, but I think Bowers could be great and add something to the Offense we haven't had.