Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise

(01-13-2024, 07:58 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: [ -> ]Big TD there though.

Yep. He did bobble that one a bit. 

Also,,mark me down for Bills/Lions. 

I said after the loss to the Texans they were headed to the Super Bowl. I see nothing that has changed my mind. Great coaching staff, young talented team. Flushed with picks. Texans have arrived.

DJ Reader adds his bold suggestion....

GB is still running the ball even though it’s only 2.1 ypc. Big passes opening up! It’s all about balance.

— Dj Reader (@Djread98) January 14, 2024

I would like to see the defense move to a 4-3 scheme, but it is unlikely. Move Dax Hill to Hiltons spot like Dax played in college and bring in a free safety. Dax has the speed to cover the field, but he was over running plays in pass protection and just did not look very good as a deep safety last year at all.

If they cannot fix Dax's coverage issues, then play him closer to the line of scrimmage where he excelled in college. Rather than force him to stay as a deep cover guy that might end up as a bust.

(01-14-2024, 09:41 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: [ -> ]I would like to see the defense move to a 4-3 scheme, but it is unlikely. Move Dax Hill to Hiltons spot like Dax played in college and bring in a free safety. Dax has the speed to cover the field, but he was over running plays in pass protection and just did not look very good as a deep safety last year at all.

If they cannot fix Dax's coverage issues, then play him closer to the line of scrimmage where he excelled in college. Rather than force him to stay as a deep cover guy that might end up as a bust.

We run the 4-3 when ADG is in the game.   In run situations we either go 5 man front or 3 LB look.

The 4-3 is not nearly as good vs the pass than the 4-2 which we run the most.

(01-14-2024, 09:56 PM)casear2727 Wrote: [ -> ]We run the 4-3 when ADG is in the game.   In run situations we either go 5 man front or 3 LB look.

The 4-3 is not nearly as good vs the pass than the 4-2 which we run the most.

Wilson and Pratt both get trucked by smaller RB's we need a guy that can thump folks in the run game at middle linebacker. We do play in the AFC north nothing will change that.

(01-14-2024, 09:56 PM)casear2727 Wrote: [ -> ]We run the 4-3 when ADG is in the game.   In run situations we either go 5 man front or 3 LB look.

The 4-3 is not nearly as good vs the pass than the 4-2 which we run the most.

I agree but we play in the AFC north we must stop the run. They can switch to a 4-2 against pass heavy team that are not in the AFC north.

(01-14-2024, 09:56 PM)casear2727 Wrote: [ -> ]We run the 4-3 when ADG is in the game.   In run situations we either go 5 man front or 3 LB look.

The 4-3 is not nearly as good vs the pass than the 4-2 which we run the most.

We must run a lot of 1 LB defenses, too, then.

Logan Wilson: 97.54%
Germaine Pratt: 89.06% 
ADG: 9.02%
Markus Bailey: 2.64%
Joe Bachie: 0.91%
Devin Harper: 0.09%

199.26% of the defensive snaps from all of our LBs combined. Last year they combined for 190.92%.

(01-14-2024, 10:16 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: [ -> ]We must run a lot of 1 LB defenses, too, then.

Logan Wilson: 97.54%
Germaine Pratt: 89.06% 
ADG: 9.02%
Markus Bailey: 2.64%
Joe Bachie: 0.91%
Devin Harper: 0.09%

199.26% of the defensive snaps from all of our LBs combined. Last year they combined for 190.92%.

We were going to lose every AFC game last year if the Browns played the starters the last game. That is not ok we need to build this defense to win games in the AFC north not the NFC west. 

And Logan and Germaine got trucked over on almost all those plays never see them knocking a guy backwards. 

(01-14-2024, 09:32 PM)casear2727 Wrote: [ -> ]DJ Reader adds his bold suggestion....

GB is still running the ball even though it’s only 2.1 ypc. Big passes opening up! It’s all about balance.

— Dj Reader (@Djread98) January 14, 2024

The man does not understand that -3 yard out route is just as good. But he plays defense and cannot comprehend the greatness on having 3 yard curl routes on 3rd and 9.

(01-14-2024, 10:01 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: [ -> ]Wilson and Pratt both get trucked by smaller RB's we need a guy that can thump folks in the run game at middle linebacker. We do play in the AFC north nothing will change that.

We are not going to pick up a big bulky run stopping Mike. 

He would be good vs the Steelers and the Browns but could be useless vs the Ravens and Lamar.  

(01-14-2024, 10:16 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: [ -> ]We must run a lot of 1 LB defenses, too, then.

Logan Wilson: 97.54%
Germaine Pratt: 89.06% 
ADG: 9.02%
Markus Bailey: 2.64%
Joe Bachie: 0.91%
Devin Harper: 0.09%

199.26% of the defensive snaps from all of our LBs combined. Last year they combined for 190.92%.

I believe we are definitely in a single backer alignment when we run 3 safeties in what would be our dime defense.....?

Ok Ill give it a go:

FA- Bengals sign Trent Brown as the RT, giving them an adequate replacement for Jonah at a reduced cap amount. allowing them to draft a Tackle later say rd 3-4.

Draft- Bengals select Jeremiah Trotter-LB (Clemson) in RD 1. He gives us that extra Pass rusher in certain packages, and plays solid against the run, allowing Trey more pressure situations.

- Not fancy but it shores up 2 areas of need and allows us more cap room for extentions (Chase, Tee, MoneyMAC) and another FA defender in the secondary after cutting Nick Scott, or a mid tier NT.

(01-14-2024, 10:16 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: [ -> ]We must run a lot of 1 LB defenses, too, then.

Logan Wilson: 97.54%
Germaine Pratt: 89.06% 
ADG: 9.02%
Markus Bailey: 2.64%
Joe Bachie: 0.91%
Devin Harper: 0.09%

199.26% of the defensive snaps from all of our LBs combined. Last year they combined for 190.92%.

ADG was hurt early on. Our Run D is usually 524. They take out a corner and put in a 3rd NT/DT instead of another LB. 

I agree than an LB with more speed who is a thumper would be great. But I think it is kinda far down our list of issues at the moment. 

1. We are down a WR2 and WR3. 
2. Our run D was awful and our top 2 NTs are both FAs. 
3. We need a starting RT. 
4. Our entire TE room are FAs with a TE1 nowhere in sight. 
5.  We don't get a lot of consistent pass rush outside of Hendrickson, especially inside. 
6. Our newbie DBs (Hill & Turner) made a lot of mistakes. With Chido a FA, Ivey hurt, and Anderson also coning off IR, our healthy reserves are Jalen Davis & Scott. 

That is 6 issues I'd rate above LB depth, and some of them (WR, DT/NT, TE, DB depth) likely require at least 2 players. OL depth and a possible RB upgrade (Henry) would also be nice As would a punter upgrade.

Now, leaps from Murphy, Dax Hill, & Turner would help with some of that. Re-signing some of our own low proced FA's will help with others (D. Sample, Hudson). Tee will be back, so take WR2 off the board. 

Barring a cut/renegotiation, we are looking at the following holes with around $35 mil left, post Higgins. 

1. NT1 (Reader brings it down to $20-$25). 
2. RT: Round 1 pick (-$2.6 mil) or FA
3. WR3: Rd 2-4 or FA 
4. TE1: Rd 2-4 or FA 
5. DT who can pass rush: Rd 2-4 or FA 
6. NT to fill in for DJ: Rd 2-4 or FA 
7. DB help: Rd 1-5 or FA (at least 2)  

That is a lot of holes/upgrades. I love Sweat but letting DJ go without landing Sweat in the draft means a huge dropoff. Way risky. 

I bring back DJ & Tee & try to fill 2-3 of those other holes in FA with smaller moves. Though I would not be opposed to a big swing for a real difference maker, especially at DT or RB (Henry). 

(01-14-2024, 10:03 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: [ -> ]I agree but we play in the AFC north we must stop the run. They can switch to a 4-2 against pass heavy team that are not in the AFC north.

A 4-3 isn't a scheme but a personnel grouping. Cincinnati has played with 5-2, nickel, 4-3, 3-3 personnel among several others. Cincinnati typically sits in two linebacker groups because of the amount of cover three they play. They walk Battle (or in the past, Bell) up into the box for run support. As long as Lou is here, I don't see that changing especially with Battle playing fairly well in this role. 

(01-14-2024, 09:32 PM)casear2727 Wrote: [ -> ]DJ Reader adds his bold suggestion....

GB is still running the ball even though it’s only 2.1 ypc. Big passes opening up! It’s all about balance.

— Dj Reader (@Djread98) January 14, 2024

Being fair, it's easy to stick to the run when your opponent keeps drives alive with defensive penalties and turns the ball over.

(01-15-2024, 10:52 AM)Whatever Wrote: [ -> ]Being fair, it's easy to stick to the run when your opponent keeps drives alive with defensive penalties and turns the ball over.

Well, that and at the time that Reader posted this the Packers were up 27-0. Very easy to eat some bad runs with that kind of cushion. 

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), I don't think that outside additions are the main path to fixing the defense.

The 2 main linebackers are paid and won't go anywhere in 2024. It's unlikely that they cut bait with Pratt, although I might agree that he deserves it. His effort was pathetic in 2023. They also likely won't spend major cap or early draft capital on LB after giving deals to both guys just last year. My main hope is that Logan was playing hurt, which I think is pretty likely, and will return to form in 2024.

Defensive tackle needs addressed just to get back to baseline. Reader went form being a guy we can't afford to re-sign at his age to a guy who may never be the same after a serious injury. We know he's one of the best when healthy and most on here will also say good things about Hill. They are the very same guys that this team had when the defense was winning them games and actually quite good vs the run in 21 and 22. Reader needs replaced, and depth needs improvement, but does re-vamping that position group fix the defense?

I would say it does not. Here's a truth that I hate to lay out because it's not comforting for me or any other fan of this team: The only thing that fixes this defense is a major leap forward by the young secondary in 2024. That's a tough one to read or hear, but it's a fact. DT additions only get us back to zero. We had one of the best NTs in the league for most of the year and were still getting absolutely destroyed in both phases practically weekly. Didn't matter if it was the smash mouth North, either. Houston had one of if not the worst rushing attack when they came into Paycor. They handed the ball to a journeyman running back and proceeded to make him look like Corey Dillon in his prime vs our guys. And our stud NT. And BJ Hill.

Lou runs a scheme that's tough for young guys to process if they aren't extremely football smart. Nick Scott and Dax Hill are not extremely football smart. They might be downright incapable of playing in the system successfully. Battle will be okay with more seasoning, I think. Turner made some bad decisions late and hopefully will learn from them. He showed promise early.

Scott will not start ideally, or maybe even be a Bengal. Dax is a problem. He might be the problem. He has great athleticism and has decent ball skills. He's good at the line. He just does dumb shit way too often. He's probably not a centerfielder in the vein of Bates. They should try to salvage his potential by using him correctly and finding someone that better fit the role that Bates vacated.

I'm not saying don't get a DT. You have to. I just don't think it fixes the root cause of the problem, Not without some major maturing in the defensive backfield. A good 3 tech might help if they could help generate pressure, but we'd still need a NT at that point, and that's an awful lot to ask in an offseason where we also need a RT, a TE as always, possibly a WR2, a WR3, possibly a RB, and have questions at LB and FS.

(01-15-2024, 10:48 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: [ -> ]A 4-3 isn't a scheme but a personnel grouping. Cincinnati has played with 5-2, nickel, 4-3, 3-3 personnel among several others. Cincinnati typically sits in two linebacker groups because of the amount of cover three they play. They walk Battle (or in the past, Bell) up into the box for run support. As long as Lou is here, I don't see that changing especially with Battle playing fairly well in this role. 

We need to improve against the rest of the AFCN,but at the same time, folks need to realize that the rest of the AFCN has won a combined 6 playoff games since 2013.  The much romanticized "AFCN Football" hasn't been effective in a decade in the playoffs.  On top of that, the Steelers have missed the playoffs 4 times in that span, while the Ravens have missed it 5 and the Browns 8.  Subscribing to that philosophy doesn't mean you will consistently make the playoffs, either.

I just wonder if some are having a knee jerk reaction to an injury plagued down year in a tough division after playing a brutal schedule.

(01-14-2024, 09:32 PM)casear2727 Wrote: [ -> ]DJ Reader adds his bold suggestion....

GB is still running the ball even though it’s only 2.1 ypc. Big passes opening up! It’s all about balance.

— Dj Reader (@Djread98) January 14, 2024

Heard a stat this morning that GB averaged 9.5 yards on 1st downs. Obviously not every first down was 9.5 yds, as there was some big yardage plays for that average. But this was against a top 5 defense. They neutralized Micah Parsons utilizing under center and quick play action at times, and then maximizing their attack on Dallas's weaknesses. 

If I was to throw a suggestion to Zac and company, look at how Green Bay dominated that defense on the road and hopefully try to learn a thing or two from it to add to the offense.