Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise

The game vs the Chiefs was yet another example. This guy cannot ice a game to save his life. Even during the SB run it was the defense that bailed him out mostly and Mixon.

It's what separates him from being a GOAT - he's good. He's very good but GOATs ice games or lead game winning drives - they FIND A WAY.

I see a lot of Ice in JB

Joe isn’t as clutch as people seem to think he is. I brought this up awhile back but it wasn’t received well

(09-15-2024, 11:56 PM)Trademark Wrote: [ -> ]The game vs the Chiefs was yet another example. This guy cannot ice a game to save his life. Even during the SB run it was the defense that bailed him out mostly and Mixon.

Under Taylor there’s been no run game to speak of. Offense has been unbalanced and extremely predictable. You think all of a sudden holes are going to open up when we are trying to ice a game? How about the fact that Burrow is consistently under duress on 3rd down blitzes and that dumbfuck Taylor can’t seem to get this through his thick skull and have a receiver on a hot route to counter. Other teams counter our blitzes with quick throws to uncovered receivers.

Blame Taylor. He’s the worst OC this franchise has ever had.

(09-16-2024, 12:16 AM)jj22 Wrote: [ -> ]Joe isn’t as clutch as people seem to think he is. I brought this up awhile back but it wasn’t received well

Remember according to good group of hard core posters you can only blame ZT and Defense, to mention Burrow in any negativity is blasphemy....

He's literally done it 3 times vs the Chiefs.

(09-16-2024, 12:22 AM)Stonyhands Wrote: [ -> ]Under Taylor there’s been no run game to speak of.  Offense has been unbalanced and extremely predictable.  You think all of a sudden holes are going to open up when we are trying to ice a game?  How about the fact that Burrow is consistently under duress on 3rd down blitzes and that dumbfuck Taylor can’t seem to get this through his thick skull and have a receiver on a hot route to counter.   Other teams counter our blitzes with quick throws to uncovered receivers.  

Blame Taylor.   He’s the worst OC this franchise has ever had.

Taylor has way too much control of this offense, but WE are the ones that need to adjust because he and his play calling are still going to be here until after Burrow is retired.

Burrow does not have elite arm strength, so he's gonna have a harder time in the red zone on __ and long for TDs. The Bengals have been above average, but not elite in the red zone. To the point of the thread Burrow has 7 game winning drives in his career; 5 of them ended in FGs. To be fair some days the D can't stop a drive at the end of a game to save their lives. But most of all Zac has all the killing instinct of a newborn puppy.

(09-16-2024, 01:03 AM)brian5562 Wrote: [ -> ]He's literally done it 3 times vs the Chiefs.

No he hasn’t. The first game against the Chiefs in the 2021 regular season I’ll give you. In that years afc champ game we got an interception in OT and Mixon and a couple short passes (maybe, memory escapes me completely) got us to field goal range. Think about EVERY single playoff win we’ve had besides the Bills game. The defense got a turnover to win every one of those games. The end of our postseason both years came with Burrow getting the ball at the end with the perfect chance to be the hero. He simply does not get it done in those situations. I brought this up a while
Back and I got blasted for it. The homers in this fan base don’t want to accept that Burrow has not shown to be THAT guy. Maybe he still can get there but he’s not there yet. Honestly I had more faith in Dalton in those moments than I do Burrow, in the regular season only obviously. Burrows fumble lost us that game yesterday and he had multiple times after that to make up for it and win us the game. He simply can’t do it apparently. He’s a good qb, buts he’s not great and he can’t sniff Mahomes or Josh Allen’s jockstraps.

(09-16-2024, 03:22 AM)puddycat Wrote: [ -> ]Burrow does not have elite arm strength, so he's gonna have a harder time in the red zone on __ and long for TDs. The Bengals have been above average, but not elite in the red zone. To the point of the thread Burrow has 7 game winning drives in his career; 5 of them ended in FGs. To be fair some days the D can't stop a drive at the end of a game to save their lives. But most of all Zac has all the killing instinct of a newborn puppy.

The problem with that stat is it counts situations like the titans playoff game when the defense got a turnover and Burrow completed one 10 yard pass and we win with a field goal. Think of a scenario where Burrow got the ball with 2 min to go on the 30 and had to win us the game….now show me a time he’s actually finished it off…..I’ll wait. To me, THAT is the mark of a top qb.

Dunno about that but I am getting real tired of him getting happy feet in the pocket. I suppose part of that is we couldn't expect his body to hold to taking endless sacks every game forever but I still miss the days when he had a little more poise.

(09-16-2024, 04:53 AM)ClarkHarris4Prez Wrote: [ -> ]The problem with that stat is it counts situations like the titans playoff game when the defense got a turnover and Burrow completed one 10 yard pass and we win with a field goal. Think of a scenario where Burrow got the ball with 2 min to go on the 30 and had to win us the game….now show me a time he’s actually finished it off…..I’ll wait. To me, THAT is the mark of a top qb.

Context matters- so looking at 1 score games and trying to remember the end of them starting with his 2nd season.

2021
Vikings- win with a field goal in OT, no TD needed. Feels clutch

Bears- come back within 3, defense never gets back off the field, ends on defense

Jags- ends on a walk-off field goal- feels clutch

Packers- lose in OT on 3 missed field goals, but Burrow didn’t do enough- not clutch

Jets- lose by 3 with defense not getting off the field (pretty sure this was the bogus penalty)

49ers- lose by 3 in OT, Taylor took the ball out of Burrows hands and ran it to kick a field goal. Defense gives up a TD to end the game.

Denver- win by 5. Don’t remember how this ended but I think defense got a few stops. So really no last minute burrow drive.

KC- win on a walk-off field goal. Burrow got the ball with around 6 or so minutes and KC never saw the ball again (includes 3rd and 27)- clutch

Ten- burrow connects on a 17-20 yard pass for the GW field goal after being sacked 9 times- clutch

KC- Burrow takes the ball over on his side of the field in OT after a pick and easily drives down for a game winning field goal to win. Clutch

Rams- Game ends with Burrow incomplete on 4th down. Not clutch

2022

Pittsburgh- crazy game, would have won it but missed XP, but doesn’t do enough in OT to win. Going to call this one a wash, but some might say not clutch

Cowboys- this one is fuzzy, but I vaguely remember us getting it close and Defense not able to get off the field to end the game against Cooper Rush.

Ravens- Burrow takes the leads 17-16, never sees the ball again. Ravens with with a walk off field goal.

NO- Take the lead under 2 minutes with a pass to Chase and long run after catch.

Steelers- one score game but Pit scored a TD late then didn’t get onside kick

Ten- got the ball with over 6 minutes left up 4. TN never got the ball back. Clutch

KC- win by 3 with the ball in our offenses hands closing them out on a 3rd and 11 to Tee.

NE- defense bails offense out on turnover at the end of game.

Balt- Hubbard yard dash. Rumble in the jungle. Defense clutch on this one.

KC- Burrow sacked on last drive. Never gets ball back. Defense with penalty to put KC in field goal position


2023

Balt- lose by 3, can’t remember the end of this one. Don’t think it was quite as close as the score


Rams- win by 3, but not sure how it ended (this was all a blur apparently)

Seahawks- win by 4 (can’t remember)

Bills- win by 6 but didn’t need a clutch drive


Texans- lose by 3, killer drop in endzone by Tyler Boyd. Defense lets HOU march down field for game winning Field goal.

2024
NE- lost by 6. burrow had chance at game winning drive but failed


KC- defense (refs) bail KC out with penalty. Mahomes completes less than 10 yards in the air on final drive. (I’m still bitter)


In summary: I count 10 clutch endings by Burrow, 3 non clutch endings by burrow. The rest were either defense not getting off the field or N/A

draw your own conclusions.

2nd and 6 I feel like Yoshi has to settle/pause/slow down into that open spot in the zone and make that catch. 3rd down...sacked in less than 1 second

(09-16-2024, 12:22 AM)Stonyhands Wrote: [ -> ]Under Taylor there’s been no run game to speak of. Offense has been unbalanced and extremely predictable. You think all of a sudden holes are going to open up when we are trying to ice a game?

The great teams always iced the game by moving the chains on the ground with a sustained rushing attack. Remember the Steelers with Bell or Bettis? We don’t have anything like that in Cincinnati. Look what Pacheco did yesterday.

(09-16-2024, 07:29 AM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: [ -> ]Context matters- so looking at 1 score games and trying to remember the end of them starting with his 2nd season.

2021
Vikings- win with a field goal in OT, no TD needed. Feels clutch

Bears- come back within 3, defense never gets back off the field, ends on defense

Jags- ends on a walk-off field goal- feels clutch

Packers- lose in OT on 3 missed field goals, but Burrow didn’t do enough- not clutch

Jets- lose by 3 with defense not getting off the field (pretty sure this was the bogus penalty)

49ers- lose by 3 in OT, Taylor took the ball out of Burrows hands and ran it to kick a field goal. Defense gives up a TD to end the game.

Denver- win by 5. Don’t remember how this ended but I think defense got a few stops. So really no last minute burrow drive.

KC- win on a walk-off field goal. Burrow got the ball with around 6 or so minutes and KC never saw the ball again (includes 3rd and 27)- clutch

Ten- burrow connects on a 17-20 yard pass for the GW field goal after being sacked 9 times- clutch

KC- Burrow takes the ball over on his side of the field in OT after a pick and easily drives down for a game winning field goal to win. Clutch

Rams- Game ends with Burrow incomplete on 4th down. Not clutch

2022

Pittsburgh- crazy game, would have won it but missed XP, but doesn’t do enough in OT to win. Going to call this one a wash, but some might say not clutch

Cowboys- this one is fuzzy, but I vaguely remember us getting it close and Defense not able to get off the field to end the game against Cooper Rush.

Ravens- Burrow takes the leads 17-16, never sees the ball again. Ravens with with a walk off field goal.

NO- Take the lead under 2 minutes with a pass to Chase and long run after catch.

Steelers- one score game but Pit scored a TD late then didn’t get onside kick

Ten- got the ball with over 6 minutes left up 4. TN never got the ball back. Clutch

KC- win by 3 with the ball in our offenses hands closing them out on a 3rd and 11 to Tee.

NE- defense bails offense out on turnover at the end of game.

Balt- Hubbard yard dash. Rumble in the jungle. Defense clutch on this one.

KC- Burrow sacked on last drive. Never gets ball back. Defense with penalty to put KC in field goal position


2023

Balt- lose by 3, can’t remember the end of this one. Don’t think it was quite as close as the score


Rams- win by 3, but not sure how it ended (this was all a blur apparently)

Seahawks- win by 4 (can’t remember)

Bills- win by 6 but didn’t need a clutch drive


Texans- lose by 3, killer drop in endzone by Tyler Boyd. Defense lets HOU march down field for game winning Field goal.

2024
NE- lost by 6. burrow had chance at game winning drive but failed


KC- defense (refs) bail KC out with penalty. Mahomes completes less than 10 yards in the air on final drive. (I’m still bitter)


In summary: I count 10 clutch endings by Burrow, 3 non clutch endings by burrow. The rest were either defense not getting off the field or N/A

draw your own conclusions.

While a great memory, you’re still missing more context. Look at yesterday. What the OP is saying is Burrow had 4 min on the clock and all he needed to do was as keep the chains moving and kick a game winning fg, or March down the field for a TD and a 2 score game. Game over. But your narrative is defense couldn’t get off the field. Both are true, but JB had the opportunity to ice the game.

Same thing for the AFCC loss to the chiefs. Burrow had the ball back at our 20 or so, couldn’t drive and we punted to Mahomes.


I won’t say he’s not clutch or he is. But I will say I trust Mahomes 100x more than I do Burrow in that situation. We ALL knew what was going to happen when we kicked our last fg and gave Mahomes 2 min and the ball. Why didn’t we all know that with 4 min left burrow was going to score a TD and go up 2 scores and effectively end the game?

(09-15-2024, 11:56 PM)Trademark Wrote: [ -> ]The game vs the Chiefs was yet another example. This guy cannot ice a game to save his life. Even during the SB run it was the defense that bailed him out mostly and Mixon.

I hate to say it, but I agree. At least in the context of high stakes games where the teams are going back and forth for the entire game. He couldn't ice the Super Bowl. He couldn't ice the AFC championship game. He couldn't ice today's game. He couldn't even ice last week's game. I believe it happens fairly consistently at this point that he does not comeback/secure a victory as often as you would expect an elite QB to. It's becoming a pattern.

 I will say that it seems like his protection consistently fails him on 3rd down (if he's trying to ice the game) or 4th down (if he's trying to come back). He is betrayed by his Oline constantly.

In this game, his receivers also failed him. The two drops on the 3rd to last and last drives by Gesicki and Iosivas, respectively, were absolutely brutal. What should have been 1st and 10 in both cases ended up putting Burrow in 3rd and 6+ scenarios; a situation neither QB succeeded in yesterday.

For what it's worth, I don't think Mahomes was able to ice the game yesterday either. He had multiple opportunities to drive down the field and really take control of the game, and he threw 2 interceptions and was forced to punt three times. 

The Bengals unequivocally outplayed the Chiefs yesterday and Burrow undeniably outplayed Mahomes. Mahomes just also has the refs on his side.

Which is unfortunate.

(09-16-2024, 12:05 AM)bfine32 Wrote: [ -> ]I see a lot of Ice in JB

(09-16-2024, 07:29 AM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: [ -> ]Context matters- so looking at 1 score games and trying to remember the end of them starting with his 2nd season.

2021
Vikings- win with a field goal in OT, no TD needed. Feels clutch

Bears- come back within 3, defense never gets back off the field, ends on defense

Jags- ends on a walk-off field goal- feels clutch

Packers- lose in OT on 3 missed field goals, but Burrow didn’t do enough- not clutch

Jets- lose by 3 with defense not getting off the field (pretty sure this was the bogus penalty)

49ers- lose by 3 in OT, Taylor took the ball out of Burrows hands and ran it to kick a field goal. Defense gives up a TD to end the game.

Denver- win by 5. Don’t remember how this ended but I think defense got a few stops. So really no last minute burrow drive.

KC- win on a walk-off field goal. Burrow got the ball with around 6 or so minutes and KC never saw the ball again (includes 3rd and 27)- clutch

Ten- burrow connects on a 17-20 yard pass for the GW field goal after being sacked 9 times- clutch

KC- Burrow takes the ball over on his side of the field in OT after a pick and easily drives down for a game winning field goal to win. Clutch

Rams- Game ends with Burrow incomplete on 4th down. Not clutch

2022

Pittsburgh- crazy game, would have won it but missed XP, but doesn’t do enough in OT to win. Going to call this one a wash, but some might say not clutch

Cowboys- this one is fuzzy, but I vaguely remember us getting it close and Defense not able to get off the field to end the game against Cooper Rush.

Ravens- Burrow takes the leads 17-16, never sees the ball again. Ravens with with a walk off field goal.

NO- Take the lead under 2 minutes with a pass to Chase and long run after catch.

Steelers- one score game but Pit scored a TD late then didn’t get onside kick

Ten- got the ball with over 6 minutes left up 4. TN never got the ball back. Clutch

KC- win by 3 with the ball in our offenses hands closing them out on a 3rd and 11 to Tee.

NE- defense bails offense out on turnover at the end of game.

Balt- Hubbard yard dash. Rumble in the jungle. Defense clutch on this one.

KC- Burrow sacked on last drive. Never gets ball back. Defense with penalty to put KC in field goal position


2023

Balt- lose by 3, can’t remember the end of this one. Don’t think it was quite as close as the score


Rams- win by 3, but not sure how it ended (this was all a blur apparently)

Seahawks- win by 4 (can’t remember)  

Bills- win by 6 but didn’t need a clutch drive


Texans- lose by 3, killer drop in endzone by Tyler Boyd. Defense lets HOU march down field for game winning Field goal.

2024
NE- lost by 6. burrow had chance at game winning drive but failed


KC- defense (refs) bail KC out with penalty. Mahomes completes less than 10 yards in the air on final drive. (I’m still bitter)


In summary: I count 10 clutch endings by Burrow, 3 non clutch endings by burrow. The rest were either defense not getting off the field or N/A

draw your own conclusions.

how did you remember/research all that stuff

(09-16-2024, 12:27 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: [ -> ]Remember according to good group of hard core posters you can only blame ZT and Defense, to mention Burrow in any negativity is blasphemy....

A bit like you can't question the FO or coach without people freaking out. But above there was some good points made. We don't have the running game to ice games and we have let some 3rd down blitzes get home with no real answer. I would also say Burrow just isn't as mobile as some of the top QBs in the league. Does that make him less elite because he can't ice a game with his legs like Mahommes? Probably somewhat. 
I'm just curious if that 4th and 16 were reversed would we have got that call. I honestly don't think they throw that flag if it's us going for it on 4th and 16.