Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise

(10-30-2024, 05:16 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: [ -> ]Mixon averaged 4.9 ypc the first time Pollack was here.

Which was pre Zac. Zac's "system" is quite different.

(10-30-2024, 05:19 PM)Joelist Wrote: [ -> ]Which was pre Zac. Zac's "system" is quite different.

Yes, we need a new OC that is given full control to create a new system where the running game is essential. If Zac is still here, so be it but he 
needs to take a step back and just be the communicator and talk to the players and coach the team. We have said this for years though.

We all thought Mixon was going to go the Texans and do well too. This is not a surprise, he fit like a glove and lots of us called it at the time.

I like our RB's in Chase Brown and Moss, but the system holds them back along with the lack of making the running game essential to the Offense.

This needs to change and then we can add a stud RB.

The bengals were initially praised for switching from zone to power because it fit their interior’s strength.

But now Cappa is bad, and Volson is still Volson. Karras is still more of a pass blocker, and he isn’t getting younger. So they for sure will need to replace Cappa at the least

(10-30-2024, 05:15 PM)Joelist Wrote: [ -> ]Basically stop being cute like we keep doing. We mix concepts a lot with some gap, some zone, pulling and other stuff. Pick an approach the linemen can do well and make it your signature. We have no identity on runs aside from trying to do them out of shotgun, not running a lot and telegraphing the play.

Also Drive Blocking has a definition:

• Drive block: One-on-one block used when a DL lines up directly over an offensive lineman. The OL drives his hips forward, delivering the block from a wide base while keeping his head up and shoulders square.
  

https://footballuniversity.org/technique-tuesday-offensive-line-blocking/

Drive block is not a play it's a type of block that happens on nearly every type of run play including alot of zone run plays. The Bengals heavy gap/man scheme includes TONS of Drive blocks/backside cuts-offs, downhill pulling power TEs. 


Couple of Bengals Power run plays from Sunday.

pic.twitter.com/vkqqkRPyVh

— Walter (@Pff_Walter) October 30, 2024

 

pic.twitter.com/Cw5aP9Kwaq

— Walter (@Pff_Walter) October 30, 2024

pic.twitter.com/mqQ67EfCNd

— Walter (@Pff_Walter) October 30, 2024

(10-30-2024, 03:34 PM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: [ -> ]What does Moss (who started 8 games due to Taylor's injuries) being a back-up or splitting time have anything to do with the fact that you said he was good last year and Mixon was bad last year when essentially every stat (traditional or advanced) would tell you that they were very similar or Mixon is actually better? It's not like we are looking at just volume stats, we looked at the advanced stats like you suggested and Mixon was better in almost every single one....

When did I say anything about Mixon being awesome lol? It's so funny when people are called out for misinformation and then completely fabricate an argument to attempt to justify their comment. I never said Mixon was awesome, great, or even good. Simply that if you called Mixon "bad" last year, I'm not sure how you can possibly argue that Moss was "good". 

I didn't fail to grasp the point. The example you used to make your point was just blatantly false, hence my comment. I'm not sure why have failed to grasp reality...

A backup has a lower bar than a premier RB1 at a high salary, and again, the point was that most RBs will struggle in this offense.  Again, your lack of comprehension is preventing you from seeing the point. 

In 2023 Moss had a better YACON/AT and was a much better pass blocker.  2 key things this offense needed.  Moss also led the league in rushing yards over expected on shotgun runs in 11 personnel.  Which is what we ran all last year.  Im guessing you didnt realize this..?  In fact he was 5th in the league in ROYE last season.  I never said Moss is better overall than Mixon, but in key categories that are important to our offense he was good in 2023.  You comparing totals when Mixon had 75 more rushing attempts is really dumb, in my humble opinion. 

The fact that you go on some silly little tangent that totally misses the point is embarrassing.

(10-30-2024, 02:52 PM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: [ -> ]This franchise absolutely needs to treat the run game with more respect. A run game that was even just average would help our offence a ton. Right now, every defence can virtually just send the DL after Burrow all game, because there's no need to respect our run game (outside of the occasional impressive burst from Chase Brown).

Unfortunately, planning has been Bengals 101 since Burrow got here. Rely on the star QB and WR to make it all happen. A rungame of any quality would take so much pressure off of the QB and we seemingly do nothing to try and make it work.

Keep dreaming, Kid. I've been hoping for a return of the Sam Wyche OL for many, many years. I've come to the conclusion that Mike Brown just doesn't see the value in building a team from the interior and then working outward. 

All they need to do is look at the historically successful coaches throughout history, they all had strong interior OLs, and defenses that were built from the middle out as well. If you spend your money on core players that can block and tackle well, you'll most likely win more than you lose, because 80% of the game takes place in the middle of the field.

(10-30-2024, 08:46 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: [ -> ]Keep dreaming, Kid. I've been hoping for a return of the Sam Wyche OL for many, many years. I've come to the conclusion that Mike Brown just doesn't see the value in building a team from the interior and then working outward. 

All they need to do is look at the historically successful coaches throughout history, they all had strong interior OLs, and defenses that were built from the middle out as well. If you spend your money on core players that can block and tackle well, you'll most likely win more than you lose, because 80% of the game takes place in the middle of the field.

Yep, you're not wrong. Mikey loves his 'Bell Cow' QB and flashy WRs.... he's a sucker for the flair positions for sure. Absolutely agree, I know the NFL has moved to a pass-happy league, but we're as good an example as any that the trenches still matter. We still see low scoring playoff games, so defence does matter. A great QB/WR combo is great, but doesn't win much of anything on its own. Burrow/Chase will win as much as Stafford/Megatron did if we don't build a more rounded roster. 

I know it was a bit of a one-year wonder, but I think of our 2009 team who swept the AFC North. Incredible OL, incredible run game and a very competitive defence. Definitely one of my favourite seasons following the team, was a joy to watch them just run all over teams. Though that said, preferred the recent playoff runs!

I always said the Bengals should have traded Carolina for CMC. I was told he would immediately get hurt. How has it worked out for SanFran?

Jay Morrison mentioned, on the most recent Growler podcast, that the FO didn't want to get rid of Mixon. Apparently the coaches pushed for it because they believed the running game would improve if they got their guy in there instead. 

Mike Santagata did a article yesterday about the Bengals run game (I inadvertently stole some of his clips lol).

He talks about how the Drive Blocks are not moving people, we are still having miscues in the rush offense week 8, and the running backs are just not driving/falling forward at times.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/allbengals-insiders-plus/film-breakdown-here-s-why-the-cincinnati-bengals-running-game-is-a-disaster-01jbeprd8824

(10-29-2024, 03:38 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: [ -> ]the bengals need a new guard. Thats step 1. Secondly, they need a new run game coordinator and o-line coach. Mims is the only good athlete on that line. That is a huge issue. Easily the most glaring problem

Spot on the nose.

OBJ and Mims are solid going into next year.

Karras has done solid overall, but he could be gone next year.
I'm not convinced he goes somewhere else though because he doesn't feel like a big name.
I can see the Bengals keeping him for another year or two, but we'll see.
Volson and Cappa (especially Volson) are the weaknesses.
Cappa is consistently ok, Volson has spurts of good play mixed with horrendous play.
With Volson already being 26 years old and halfway through his 3rd season, I don't know how much more improvement we're going to see out of him.

Personally, I'd look to the draft early for a new OG who can push for a starting spot as a rookie or serve as a backup for a year with plan for them to start in 2026.
Although if the Bengals were willing to dip into FA, I'd love to go after James Daniels from PIT and/or Dalton Risner from MIN to cover RG and LG, respectively.
Risner should come cheap, as he signed for just $2.4 mill with MIN last year.
Daniels is someone I think will command $10+ mill APY, but he's also recovering from an Achilles injury and is out the rest of the year, so there's some risk there that might keep the price more modest.

A cheap fix to improve the running game especially in short yardage would be to have a full back on the roster. I wonder if Sample's skill set would transition?

(10-31-2024, 09:09 AM)Synric Wrote: [ -> ]Mike Santagata did a article yesterday about the Bengals run game (I inadvertently stole some of his clips lol).

He talks about how the Drive Blocks are not moving people, we are still having miscues in the rush offense week 8, and the running backs are just not driving/falling forward at times.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/allbengals-insiders-plus/film-breakdown-here-s-why-the-cincinnati-bengals-running-game-is-a-disaster-01jbeprd8824

That was a very well composed article that really shed the blame on all parties involved, OL, backs, coaches. I saw that after work yesterday and considered posting it, glad to see that you did.

(10-30-2024, 08:38 PM)casear2727 Wrote: [ -> ]A backup has a lower bar than a premier RB1 at a high salary, and again, the point was that most RBs will struggle in this offense.  Again, your lack of comprehension is preventing you from seeing the point. 

In 2023 Moss had a better YACON/AT and was a much better pass blocker.  2 key things this offense needed.  Moss also led the league in rushing yards over expected on shotgun runs in 11 personnel.  Which is what we ran all last year.  Im guessing you didnt realize this..?  In fact he was 5th in the league in ROYE last season.  I never said Moss is better overall than Mixon, but in key categories that are important to our offense he was good in 2023.  You comparing totals when Mixon had 75 more rushing attempts is really dumb, in my humble opinion. 

The fact that you go on some silly little tangent that totally misses the point is embarrassing.

(10-31-2024, 09:21 AM)Was Moss good last year on the Colts? Wrote: [ -> ]Your Post - 

Ask yourself this.

Was Moss good last year on the Colts?
Yes he was.

Is Moss good this year?
No

Is Mixon good this year on the Texans?
Yes

Was Mixon good here last year?
No

You clearly said Mixon was bad last year and Moss was good last year. Saying you didn't say that is embarrassing. Lol, I totally understand your point, just the example (Moss vs. Mixon) is a terrible example to highlight that point, which is what I'm discussing. The fact that your unable to understand that is embarrassing. There is no stat that you can highlight that would defend the argument that Mixon was bad and Moss was good last year. Even so, looking at 1-2 stats where Moss has a leg up, doesn't equate to one player being "bad". 

I shared volume stats and advanced stats. You ignoring that 2nd post is very dumb in my humble opinion. 

You were incorrect in your assessment of Mixon vs. Moss and instead of acknowledging that, you've tried to make irrelevant arguments to the point I've made. 

(10-31-2024, 01:03 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: [ -> ]Jay Morrison mentioned, on the most recent Growler podcast, that the FO didn't want to get rid of Mixon. Apparently the coaches pushed for it because they believed the running game would improve if they got their guy in there instead. 

I don't believe that at all. I think they wanted to get rid of Mixon simply to get a better blocker, which they did in Moss.

(10-29-2024, 03:23 PM)lone bengal Wrote: [ -> ]It's the scheme that's the problem we've been a bottom of the league team in rushing under Taylor. We were told Joe Mixon was done and he's having a career year in Houston and even catching the ball well. Zack Moss played well last for Indy and he's terrible now. We can never can a yard in short yardage and I think the O-line is decent. 

Mixon wasn't doing so hot toward the end of Marvin's run either. We've been the bottom of the league in efficiency in the run game for quite some time now. 

(10-29-2024, 03:38 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: [ -> ]the bengals need a new guard. Thats step 1. Secondly, they need a new run game coordinator and o-line coach. Mims is the only good athlete on that line. That is a huge issue. Easily the most glaring problem

Been a problem for a long time....

(10-29-2024, 04:40 PM)Joelist Wrote: [ -> ]It's a scheme problem not a player problem. We have a power line and our scheme leans away from doing power things. We need to get under center and drive block instead of these dumb zone concepts. Let the linemen attack, which is how a line builds cohesion and an identity. Also both run and pass out of the same formations - STOP GIVING THE PLAY AWAY. Make defenses guess at least a little by breaking tendencies. These are VERY simple things and would do us a world of good.

So quit drafting/signing players that don't fit the scheme the coaches wanna run. Seems pretty simple, but not to Tobin it appears....

(10-29-2024, 03:06 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: [ -> ]Lets face it we have a bottom 5 RB room I feel a stud RB would allow us to control TOP more open up the passing game and even protect a bad defense. This line isn't terrible best Zac has had nobody is afraid of our RB's

agree completely..and although I don't quite understand how the NFL /Free Agency thing works...this would be a different team with Derrick Henry..he's on course to have another 2000 yd season..oh well

(10-29-2024, 03:25 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: [ -> ]Hilarious post

Joe Mixon is a stud right now in Houston. He was terrible when he was here. Do the math

what is befuddling to me..when you consider the size, strength and athleticism of NFL offensive linemen in the NFL...there is really not a great deal of difference..something is amiss with our offensive line..most likely the philosophy and coaching