I see people mentioning Burton challenging for WR3, but is WR3 really a problem with Iosivas there?
Here's a look at the Top 4 receiving options each of the past 3 years:
2022:
Option 1 - 1046 yards, 9 TDs (Chase)
Option 2 - 1029 yards, 7 TDs (Higgins)
Option 3 - 762 yards, 5 TDs (Boyd)
Option 4 - 414 yards, 2 TDs (Hurst)
2023:
Option 1 - 1216 yards, 7 TDs (Chase)
Option 2 - 667 yards, 2 TDs (Boyd)
Option 3 - 656 yards, 5 TDs (Higgins)
Option 4 - 352 yards, 1 TD (Hudson)
2024:
Option 1 - 1708 yards, 17 TDs (Chase)
Option 2 - 911 yards, 10 TDs (Higgins)
Option 3 - 665 yards, 2 TDs (Gesicki)
Option 4 - 479 yards, 6 TDs (Iosivas)
Option 3 is almost always going to be in the 600-800 range.
Option 4 is usually in the 300-500 range.
I don't think we need to be so worried about the WR3 putting up 600+ yards and trying to be like Boyd.
Gesicki is a (more than) capable 3rd option in the offense and WR3 can be a fine 4th option.
To me, Burton was added as insurance in case Higgins ended up departing, but he didn't (partly I'm sure because Burton didn't really do anything to allow the Bengals to move on from Higgins).
Burton is likely to be a role player and hopefully put up 300+ yards in a reserve/specialized role, and that would be ok because they have all their primary options covered fine.
(05-28-2025, 10:19 AM)c766 Wrote: [ -> ]Now the Bengals fans are lying to themselves into believing Jermaine Burton is going to magically blossom into a key Bengal in 2025. We have delusional fans
This was just 3 months ago
Published: Feb. 11, 2025 at 12:11 PM CST
'CINCINNATI (ENQUIRER) - Cincinnati Bengals wide receiver Jermaine Burton is facing another eviction proceeding, which comes less than two months after a landlord filed paperwork to evict Burton from his apartment at The Banks, our partners at the Cincinnati Enquirer report.
Man, I'll bet that you're super fun at parties and social gatherings.
(05-28-2025, 10:19 AM)c766 Wrote: [ -> ]Now the Bengals fans are lying to themselves into believing Jermaine Burton is going to magically blossom into a key Bengal in 2025. We have delusional fans
This was just 3 months ago
Published: Feb. 11, 2025 at 12:11 PM CST
'CINCINNATI (ENQUIRER) - Cincinnati Bengals wide receiver Jermaine Burton is facing another eviction proceeding, which comes less than two months after a landlord filed paperwork to evict Burton from his apartment at The Banks, our partners at the Cincinnati Enquirer report.
That was supposedly because he let a houseguest stay in his apartment, and that guest brought his dog. Not the crime of the century. Kids do grow up you know. Maybe Burton has, maybe he hasn't, we'll find out soon enough. Personally, I hope he has and can fill in if Chase or Higgins are out.
(05-28-2025, 11:49 AM)ochocincos Wrote: [ -> ]I see people mentioning Burton challenging for WR3, but is WR3 really a problem with Iosivas there?
Yes.
Yoshi couldn't even put up 500 yards despite having a QB who led the league in pass attempts (and completed over 70% of his attempts) while playing 78.45% of the offensive snaps. He caught only 59% of his targets and dropped over 8% of them.
If you care about PFF, he was the 126th/133 WRs.
He is not a proper solution. He was a bad WR who got too much opportunity. (Think 2023 Trenton Irwin or 2020 Drew Sample)
- - - - - -
For reference, no WR for the Bengals (not named Ja'Marr Chase) played a higher % of the offensive snaps than Iosivas did in 2024 since Tyler Boyd in 2019 (where he had >1k yards).
(05-28-2025, 12:06 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: [ -> ]Yes.
Yoshi couldn't even put up 500 yards despite having a QB who led the league in pass attempts (and completed over 70% of his attempts) while playing 78.45% of the offensive snaps. He caught only 59% of his targets and dropped over 8% of them.
If you care about PFF, he was the 126th/133 WRs.
He is not a proper solution. He was a bad WR who got too much opportunity. (Think 2023 Trenton Irwin or 2020 Drew Sample)
- - - - - -
For reference, no WR for the Bengals (not named Ja'Marr Chase) played a higher % of the offensive snaps than Iosivas did in 2024 since Tyler Boyd in 2019 (where he had >1k yards).
Personally, I think it would be tough for any #3 on this team to get more than 500 playing behind Chase and Higgins, not to mention Gisecki out there catching balls.
(05-28-2025, 12:11 PM)Sled21 Wrote: [ -> ]Personally, I think it would be tough for any #3 on this team to get more than 500 playing behind Chase and Higgins, not to mention Gisecki out there catching balls.
Boyd did it 4/4 years and did it while catching 70.6% of his targets and only a 2.6% drop rate.
I'm not saying we NEED a Boyd at #3, but Iosivas is not the answer.
(05-28-2025, 12:11 PM)Sled21 Wrote: [ -> ]Personally, I think it would be tough for any #3 on this team to get more than 500 playing behind Chase and Higgins, not to mention Gisecki out there catching balls.
He played more than Higgins though. That's the problem.
(05-28-2025, 12:14 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: [ -> ]Boyd did it 4/4 years and did it while catching 70.6% of his targets and only a 2.6% drop rate.
I'm not saying we NEED a Boyd at #3, but Iosivas is not the answer.
Well maybe Burton, or one of the new rookies will fill in. Either way, I do not see them spending more money for a #3 WR with the money they paid the top 2. And Yoshi is entering year 3, which is the year Marvin always said it takes most WR's to get it.
(05-27-2025, 04:27 PM)ochocincos Wrote: [ -> ]Ahh, another guy for the Bengals to use as the "deep route" guy, much like Bengals tried to do with John Ross.
Both Ross and Burton had red flags (different reasons), both basically nothing for their rookie years.
Who ends up having more yards in their first four years as a Bengal - Ross or Burton?
Ross (4 seasons) - 963 yards, 11 TDs
Burton (1 season) - 104 yards, 0 TDs
Yeah, so you have the off-field maturity thing. But, he appeared pretty lost on the field.
I don't know if he didn't learn the playbook or what, but he didn't seem to have that 'it' factor year 1.
(05-28-2025, 12:14 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: [ -> ]Boyd did it 4/4 years and did it while catching 70.6% of his targets and only a 2.6% drop rate.
I'm not saying we NEED a Boyd at #3, but Iosivas is not the answer.
IMO you're comparing the wrong people.
It's not Iosivas vs Boyd.
It's Boyd vs Gesicki, the team's 3rd option now.
Iosivas should be compared to the team's 4th option when Boyd was on the team.
Bengals evolved their offense to focus more on TE in the passing game once Boyd left.
I don't think WR3 has to be the 3rd option in the offense nor has to have 600+ yards of production.
(05-28-2025, 12:06 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: [ -> ]Yes.
Yoshi couldn't even put up 500 yards despite having a QB who led the league in pass attempts (and completed over 70% of his attempts) while playing 78.45% of the offensive snaps. He caught only 59% of his targets and dropped over 8% of them.
If you care about PFF, he was the 126th/133 WRs.
He is not a proper solution. He was a bad WR who got too much opportunity. (Think 2023 Trenton Irwin or 2020 Drew Sample)
- - - - - -
For reference, no WR for the Bengals (not named Ja'Marr Chase) played a higher % of the offensive snaps than Iosivas did in 2024 since Tyler Boyd in 2019 (where he had >1k yards).
We need to stop only focusing on the WRs. TEs can and should play just as much of a factor into the passing game too.
Bengals just targeted WR3 (much) more than TE in the past because Boyd was better than whatever TE they had.
Gesicki is a far better receiving TE than the likes of Uzomah and Hurst.
Uzomah 2021 - 493 yards
Hurst 2022 - 414 yards
Gesicki 2024 - 665 yards
Gesicki had 82 targets last year.
Boyd in 2023 had 80 targets, 88 targets in 2022.
Meanwhile, Iosivas had 59 targets last year, which is right in line with Hurst 2022 (65) and Uzomah 2021 (62).
For all intents and purposes, Gesicki is the 3rd option in the offense, Iosivas is the 4th option.
(05-28-2025, 02:38 PM)ochocincos Wrote: [ -> ]IMO you're comparing the wrong people.
It's not Iosivas vs Boyd.
It's Boyd vs Gesicki, the team's 3rd option now.
Iosivas should be compared to the team's 4th option when Boyd was on the team.
Bengals evolved their offense to focus more on TE in the passing game once Boyd left.
I don't think WR3 has to be the 3rd option in the offense nor has to have 600+ yards of production.
It's not Boyd vs Gesicki because in 2024 Iosivas was on the field for 892 offensive snaps. Gesicki was on the field for 523.
Iosivas got a massive workload and produced incredibly little in return and what he did produce was VERY inefficiently done.
You can throw ME out there for 900 snaps and I will turn in 0 catches for 0 yards.
You put Drew Sample out there for 10 snaps and he gets 1 catch for 4 yards.
Doesn't mean that Drew Sample was a higher option than me just because he outproduced me, it means I was a higher option for the team but I was just terrible and didn't belong out there and couldn't turn that massive amount of opportunities into production.
No team's 4th option is playing 892 offensive snaps at WR. So NO, Iosivas shouldn't be compared to them.
I like hearing that Burton is putting in the work. To be honest I gave up on the guy, but evidently Joey B has not so I am cautiously optimistic.
Burton has fantastic hands and speed. Yah never know.
(05-28-2025, 03:03 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: [ -> ]It's not Boyd vs Gesicki because in 2024 Iosivas was on the field for 892 offensive snaps. Gesicki was on the field for 523.
Iosivas got a massive workload and produced incredibly little in return and what he did produce was VERY inefficiently done.
You can throw ME out there for 900 snaps and I will turn in 0 catches for 0 yards.
You put Drew Sample out there for 10 snaps and he gets 1 catch for 4 yards.
Doesn't mean that Drew Sample was a higher option than me just because he outproduced me, it means I was a higher option for the team but I was just terrible and didn't belong out there and couldn't turn that massive amount of opportunities into production.
No team's 4th option is playing 892 offensive snaps at WR. So NO, Iosivas shouldn't be compared to them.
Is 3rd most offensive snaps amongst WRs+TEs how 3rd option is determined now?
I've always gone on production - targets and yards.
Look, is Iosivas someone I would feel confident stepping in for Higgins or Chase and have no dropoff? Nope.
But I don't think the offense is so incredibly bad with Iosivas out there that the team needs to try to find a way to get him off the field this year.
And I don't think Burton is going to explode on the scene and have 500+ yards this year either.
If he does though, great, but I don't have confidence he developed enough last year to be ready for that type of consistency and target share in the offense this year.
(05-28-2025, 03:10 PM)ochocincos Wrote: [ -> ]Is 3rd most offensive snaps amongst WRs+TEs how 3rd option is determined now?
I've always gone on production - targets and yards.
Look, is Iosivas someone I would feel confident stepping in for Higgins or Chase and have no dropoff? Nope.
But I don't think the offense is so incredibly bad with Iosivas out there that the team needs to try to find a way to get him off the field this year.
And I don't think Burton is going to explode on the scene and have 500+ yards this year either.
If he does though, great, but I don't have confidence he developed enough last year to be ready for that type of consistency and target share in the offense this year.
He was 2nd on the team and 3rd wasn't even CLOSE.
Iosivas is basically a Point Guard in basketball who played 40 minutes a game for an entire season and was responsible for like 6 points per game. "It's okay because these other guys scored more points than him."... but he was on the court for 40 minutes a game! That's so much opportunity of him doing absolutely nothing that could go towards a more productive player getting playing time and ACTUALLY producing.
Opportunity wasted on a bad player is negative value because that same opportunity could be given to a non-bad player who can actually be productive with it. A WR who is on the field for nearly 900 snaps and produces that little is spending most of his time on the field doing nothing. It's only marginally better than playing 11-on-10.
Yoshi shouldn't be on the field unless we're inside their 10.
(05-28-2025, 03:24 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: [ -> ]He was 2nd on the team and 3rd wasn't even CLOSE.
Iosivas is basically a Point Guard in basketball who played 40 minutes a game for an entire season and was responsible for like 6 points per game. "It's okay because these other guys scored more points than him."... but he was on the court for 40 minutes a game! That's so much opportunity of him doing absolutely nothing that could go towards a more productive player getting playing time and ACTUALLY producing.
Opportunity wasted on a bad player is negative value because that same opportunity could be given to a non-bad player who can actually be productive with it. A WR who is on the field for nearly 900 snaps and produces that little is spending most of his time on the field doing nothing. It's only marginally better than playing 11-on-10.
I do see your point.
You're believing the reason Iosivas was 4th in receiving production despite playing 78% of the offensive snaps is his big lack of ability to warrant more targets.
And to be fair, it might be, at least part of it.
It also might be that the other receiving options are just getting more open, in a better part of the field, Burrow may trust them more, etc.
At the end of the day, the offense was about the best it had ever been last year compared to previous years under Taylor, and Iosivas was there and playing a significant role.
Bengals chose to not add another pass catcher in the offseason, clearly comfortable with Iosivas and/or Burton covering that role.
For a 6th round pick playing in his 2nd year, I thought Iosivas did alright though.
We'll see how he does in this critical 3rd year, as that's usually when players become what they will be in their prime.
4.5 months ago, Burton was not even traveling with the team for games...and he was being accused of domestic Violence, breaking into a house, and was also simultaneously being evicted.
Now on may 28th, our fanboys think hes going to emerge as a NFL star. I swear, only in Cincinnati.
(05-28-2025, 04:41 PM)c766 Wrote: [ -> ]4.5 months ago, Burton was not even traveling with the team for games...and he was being accused of domestic Violence, breaking into a house, and was also simultaneously being evicted.
Now on may 28th, our fanboys think hes going to emerge as a NFL star. I swear, only in Cincinnati.
I get you want folks to pay attention to you, so here goes:
I've seen no one in the thread assert Burton is going to be an NFL Star. I have seen folks disappointed with his first year, hoping, he has matured, and can challenege to be our #3 Wr/ 4th pass catcher.
(05-28-2025, 04:41 PM)c766 Wrote: [ -> ]4.5 months ago, Burton was not even traveling with the team for games...and he was being accused of domestic Violence, breaking into a house, and was also simultaneously being evicted.
Now on may 28th, our fanboys think hes going to emerge as a NFL star. I swear, only in Cincinnati.
Imagine a dude like that having to get a legit 9 to 5 job. I'd venture that for the first time in his life, the possibility may have crossed his mind at the end of last year. Maybe it scared him enough to change him.
My worry is that he toes the line for a bit and then reverts once a comfort level returns. If he emerges as a viable 3rd option, his mistakes will be forgiven quickly. He will be found money and a major plot line for the season. He gives off the impression of being genuinely toxic and ignorant simultaneously. Hopefully it's immaturity that needed a hard lesson to overcome. I'm not getting my hopes up.
(05-28-2025, 05:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: [ -> ]I get you want folks to pay attention to you, so here goes:
I've seen no one in the thread assert Burton is going to be an NFL Star. I have seen folks disappointed with his first year, hoping, he has matured, and can challenege to be our #3 Wr/ 4th pass catcher.
The Bengals did not even want him on their team last year over multiple games (Gameday inactives)
And over the other games he was active - he amassed 4 catches for 107 yards.
Hilarious.
but now, he is going to break out!