Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise

(01-07-2016, 05:56 PM)Ravage Wrote: [ -> ]It's not BS, the statement I took issue with spoke in an absolute context. I set out to disprove that statement. Want a better example? Fine. Steve Young replacing Joe Montana. A journeyman QB if I ever saw one (He washed out of TAMPA before Dungy arrived and made them an actual NFL team) replacing a no-doubt HOF'er who still had plenty left in the tank (albeit not HOF level play).

I never said Dalton wasn't better than those three in either of my posts. If I did I'd love to see it. Nor did I at any point suggest that McCarron ever outperformed Dalton. I also never at any point suggested that McCarron should replace Dalton either. 

Of course, I fully expect you to keep ignoring that.

Edit: Brooks outplayed Blake?
Brooks: 3-2, 58.2%, 9/6 TD/INT, 85.7 QB rating.
Blake: 7-4, 60.9%, 13/9 TD/INT, 82.7 QB rating.
They look awful similar to me. Except only one of those two ever intentionally threw a pass backwards...to no one. And it wasn't Blake. https://vine.co/v/OJlitxm1Z6T

To be fair.....our own Sam Wyche laid the groundwork for that team by drafting Brooks, Lynch, and Sapp, and the team had improved to 7-9 his last season after a very grim outlook leading up to his tenure.  Steve Young left Tampa LONG before either Dungy or Wyche got there.  NO ONE was going to do well for the Yuccaneers in those days.  Also, Young had a pretty damn good career in the USFL before landing in NFL Siberia.

(01-07-2016, 04:37 PM)zygrot24 Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed.  If the kid throws for 300 plus, a couple score, and doesn't have a turnover, I don't see how you sit the kid.

Because he is the backup.. what are people missing here ... if Dalton is a full go for Patriots, he will play.... if not AJM will play.. it is not that complicated.. Dalton is the better QB and the starter nothing has changed that or will for the playoffs and future

(01-07-2016, 02:15 PM)Ravage Wrote: [ -> ]2000: New Orleans Saints, Jeff Blake playing at a Pro Bowl level in his first season in New Orleans breaks his foot. Replaced by Aaron Brooks. Blake never gets his job back.

2001 : New England Patriots, Drew Bledsoe, former #1 overall pick, arguably a top 10 NFL QB at the time gets hurt. Replaced by second year 6th round QB Tom Brady. Bledsoe never gets his job back and is traded to Buffalo during the off-season.

2004: Pittsburgh Steelers, Tommy Maddox (a year removed from being named NFL comeback player of the year) is injured and replaced by rookie QB Ben Roethlisberger. Maddox never gets his job back.

I could keep going, but please tell me how you "always go with history" again?

I'm in no way advocating that I want McCarron to replace Dalton.  McCarron's looked good...for a backup QB. But to assert that established starters (especially at qb) are immune to losing their job due to injury is a fallacy.

First lets define Established QBs in my eyes:   1.  That have been with the team for a few years and have been playing at a good level  and had the team winning and going or on pace to make the playoffs.    Now take the three you stated and you can't use that definition.  Here is why 

Jeff Black was not an established starter, he had played one season with New Orleans and had not make the playoffs the year before.

Bledsoe was 0-2 when he was hurt and  had not had a winning season with NE since 1998 and had not made the playoffs since 1997 so easy to see Brady keep job

Ben was picked 12th in draft, he was going to be their starter sooner than later plus goes 13-0  big difference from  AJM picked 4th/5th round and taking over late in year.  Also Maddox had 4 years I believe with Steelers at that point and never taken team to playoffs...

there have been many QBs that were backups that maybe played a few games and had a winning record for teams that once the starter came back, they went to backups.

Each situation has its own circumstances that can be very different from the others.   To me the only theme you have similar is that a starting QB got hurt and someone replaced them that kept the job.   How about finding this:

A QB going in his 5th year with 5 straight winning records, 5 playoffs appearances earned, playing at MVP level for 3/4s of his 5th year before he got injuried is replaced by a backup and loses his job in the future.

Can you come up with that or a simliar situation to Dalton's ?? I don;t think you can or will be very rare

Finally interesting when you look at the three you posted Blake, Maddox, Bledsoe.. none of them had taken their team to the playoffs the previous 3 or 4 years.. seems like a much easier reason why the backup never game up their job

(01-08-2016, 01:34 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: [ -> ]First lets define Established QBs in my eyes:   1.  That have been with the team for a few years and have been playing at a good level  and had the team winning and going or on pace to make the playoffs.    Now take the three you stated and you can't use that definition.  Here is why 

Jeff Black was not an established starter, he had played one season with New Orleans and had not make the playoffs the year before.

Bledsoe was 0-2 when he was hurt and  had not had a winning season with NE since 1998 and had not made the playoffs since 1997 so easy to see Brady keep job

Ben was picked 12th in draft, he was going to be their starter sooner than later plus goes 13-0  big difference from  AJM picked 4th/5th round and taking over late in year.  Also Maddox had 4 years I believe with Steelers at that point and never taken team to playoffs...

there have been many QBs that were backups that maybe played a few games and had a winning record for teams that once the starter came back, they went to backups.

Each situation has its own circumstances that can be very different from the others.   To me the only theme you have similar is that a starting QB got hurt and someone replaced them that kept the job.   How about finding this:

A QB going in his 5th year with 5 straight winning records, 5 playoffs appearances earned, playing at MVP level for 3/4s of his 5th year before he got injuried is replaced by a backup and loses his job in the future.

Can you come up with that or a simliar situation to Dalton's ?? I don;t think you can or will be very rare

Finally interesting when you look at the three you posted Blake, Maddox, Bledsoe.. none of them had taken their team to the playoffs the previous 3 or 4 years.. seems like a much easier reason why the backup never game up their job

Alex Smith and Kaepernick is really the closest thing.

This reporter agrees with the premise of this thread....

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/09/sports/football/cincinnati-bengals-quarterback-question-aj-mccarron-or-andy-dalton.html?_r=0&pagewanted=all

(01-08-2016, 02:28 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: [ -> ]Alex Smith and Kaepernick is really the closest thing.

and even that is not as close to Daltons situation.. Alex the year before lead team to playoffs but the 2 years before that 49s were 13-19 and no playoffs... 

(01-08-2016, 02:47 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: [ -> ]and even that is not as close to Daltons situation.. Alex the year before lead team to playoffs but the 2 years before that 49s were 13-19 and no playoffs... 

Exactly. But it's much closer than the other QBs that were mentioned. It's nothing like the Brady-Bledsoe situation. That team was looking for a winning season. We're looking for a Super Bowl.

(01-08-2016, 02:51 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly. But it's much closer than the other QBs that were mentioned. It's nothing like the Brady-Bledsoe situation. That team was looking for a winning season. We're looking for a Super Bowl.

Sure if you think one playoff appearance, two losing seasons to five playoff appearances and five winning season is that close.. I don;t and I pretty much can say with 100 percent certain that the Bengal Organization is not, has not and will not even think about AJM as their starting QB next year.