Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise

(06-04-2015, 09:49 PM)McC Wrote: [ -> ]You have a problem with AJ.  Got it.

The same problem I have with most of the players on this roster. He shriveled in the playoffs. 

(06-04-2015, 09:50 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: [ -> ]The same problem I have with most of the players on this roster. He shriveled in the playoffs. 

You didn't really single any of them out, though, did you?

(06-04-2015, 09:52 PM)McC Wrote: [ -> ]You didn't really single any of them out, though, did you?

Well...considering what this thread is about and my original post (being that AJ never gets any blame ever), I thought I had it covered.....but apparently I have to list all 53 guys or else I'm being mean to AJ 

(06-04-2015, 09:55 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: [ -> ]Well...considering what this thread is about and my original post (being that AJ never gets any blame ever), I thought I had it covered.....but apparently I have to list all 53 guys or else I'm being mean to AJ 

You're downright pissy about AJ.  What's up with that? 

(06-04-2015, 09:58 PM)McC Wrote: [ -> ]You're downright pissy about AJ.  What's up with that? 

I'm not pissy about AJ. 


You erroneously decided what was meant by post, and devolved it into this. 
I had a problem with how the article approached it, making it seem as though AJ was some infallible  player who was at the mercy of his QB. 
AJ has his issues and they've been seen in the playoffs as much as anyone else's issues have been. 
That's all I meant by it. 

You took it to mean I trusted Andy more than AJ. No idea how you made that leap other than inside your own head. 

AJ Green is a much better WR than Andy Dalton is a QB.

If Dalton hits a wide open AJ Green in Houston v2 AJ has about 120 receiving yards (instead of 80) and we beat Houston.

There was also a play earlier in the 4th Quarter where Andy under-threw a wide open AJ in the End Zone allowing J Jo to recover and make a play.

If Andy was decent that game AJ would have had about 160 yards and 2 TDs enroute to a victory

(06-04-2015, 10:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: [ -> ]AJ Green is a much better WR than Andy Dalton is a QB.

If Dalton hits a wide open AJ Green in Houston v2 AJ has about 120 receiving yards (instead of 80) and we beat Houston.

There was also a play earlier in the 4th Quarter where Andy under-threw a wide open AJ in the End Zone allowing J Jo to recover and make a play.

If Andy was decent that game AJ would have had about 160 yards and 2 TDs enroute to a victory

And AJ dropped a 3rd TD.
We can't win regardless. 

(06-04-2015, 10:01 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not pissy about AJ. 


You erroneously decided what was meant by post, and devolved it into this. 
I had a problem with how the article approached it, making it seem as though AJ was some infallible  player who was at the mercy of his QB. 
AJ has his issues and they've been seen in the playoffs as much as anyone else's issues have been. 
That's all I meant by it. 

You took it to mean I trusted Andy more than AJ. No idea how you made that leap other than inside your own head. 

You are pissy about AJ.  It's obvious from the things you said. 

(06-04-2015, 10:01 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not pissy about AJ. 


You erroneously decided what was meant by post, and devolved it into this. 
I had a problem with how the article approached it, making it seem as though AJ was some infallible  player who was at the mercy of his QB. 
AJ has his issues and they've been seen in the playoffs as much as anyone else's issues have been. 
That's all I meant by it. 

You took it to mean I trusted Andy more than AJ. No idea how you made that leap other than inside your own head. 

When you say a WR hasn't won a contested ball in two years, that is a pretty serious indictment of that player.

(06-04-2015, 10:06 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: [ -> ]And AJ dropped a 3rd TD.
We can't win regardless. 

You may be thinking about the SDC game. I don't recall AJ dropping anything against Texans v.2 and the Charger drop was contested.

LOL why does it always boil down to armies..

Its a chicken and egg debate.

AJ cant be super if Andy is as bad as most say.

Andy cant be as successful if AJ isn't a god.

ugh.

They both need to improve.
Until Andy can catch his own passes and AJ can throw passes to himself its a moot point.
They have had huge hands in each others success.


As per the "Armies" on both sides....
The Black pot and Kettel are real.
#struggleisreal

Honestly it's lazy journalism on douchebag Dameshek's part. The "In spite of Dalton" argument for A.J. has beaten itself to death that it completely masks A.J.'s own flaws. You can't evaluate him without mentioning the QB and that's not fair to the QB. If QBs were the reason WRs are elite than there would be no reason to invest money or high draft picks in good ones. Sometimes the great ones overcome medicore play from those around them, including the guy throwing him the ball.

Also, A.J.'s numbers are pretty damn high in 4 years for being kept back.

(06-04-2015, 10:09 PM)McC Wrote: [ -> ]You are pissy about AJ.  It's obvious from the things you said. 

Why even respond with the same thing three times in a row? Your clearly not interested in a discussion anymore so kinda pointless just to call someone pissy as every response.  So someone doesn't think AJ is a god like more than a few people, big deal. 

AJ the last couple years has had plenty of bad plays but we always sweep them under the rug and no one is allowed to criticize. Honestly the funniest one I seem to remember is everyone trying to twist an AJ fumble and make it Andys fault. 

How about we admit they both have some issues, I love AJ but I honestly feel like the guy plays soft way too much and having an opinion on a player doesn't make someone "pissy". 

Again so someone doesn't go crazy, I love Andy and AJ but they both have some flaws, especially come playoff time.

(06-04-2015, 10:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: [ -> ]You may be thinking about the SDC game. I don't recall AJ dropping anything against Texans v.2 and the Charger drop was contested.

It may have been the first Texans game. 

He had a TD over the middle, two hands on the ball and a DB knocked it away.

the SD game was contested by dropped in the basket and needed to be caught. Your best player has to make that play. 

But that's part of my point, at some point he has to make a big contested catch that isn't just a defensive breakdown. 

If Jones can go off like he did vs SD, why can't AJ vs anyone? 

It's the conundrum of the Bengals. The QB stinks when the WR does well and the WR stinks when the QB does well. It's lose-lose. 
Was never a vs debate

(06-04-2015, 10:14 PM)Junglejuice Wrote: [ -> ]LOL why does it always boil down to armies..

Its a chicken and egg debate.

AJ cant be super if Andy is as bad as most say.

Andy cant be as successful if AJ isn't a god.

ugh.

They both need to improve.
Until Andy can catch his own passes and AJ can throw passes to himself its a moot point.
They have had huge hands in each others success.


As per the "Armies" on both sides....
The Black pot and Kettel are real.
#struggleisreal

Right. Which was essentially my point but somehow McC got offended by it. 

There's little doubt Dalton has had "issues" with off target throws, not throwing receivers open, putting to much air under it, and on and on.

But there's also little doubt, in my mind anyways, that AJ is not near as faultless as many want to portray him. Like a couple people have said, to me he's not nearly physical enough at times. He let's press coverage get into his head, and he's had some big drops on catchable balls. And some crunch time fumbles.

Bottom line - they both have much room for improvement !

(06-04-2015, 07:46 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: [ -> ]Uncomfortable facts:
AJ Green hasn't gone up and won a deep ball in nearly 2 years.
AJ Green has been equally as bad in the playoffs as his QB and the rest of the team.

Love AJ, but this is truth.

(06-04-2015, 10:16 PM)Stormborn Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly it's lazy journalism on douchebag Dameshek's part. The "In spite of Dalton" argument for A.J. has beaten itself to death that it completely masks A.J.'s own flaws. You can't evaluate him without mentioning the QB and that's not fair to the QB. If QBs were the reason WRs are elite than there would be no reason to invest money or high draft picks in good ones. Sometimes the great ones overcome medicore play from those around them, including the guy throwing him the ball.

Also, A.J.'s numbers are pretty damn high in 4 years for being kept back.

AJ is a great player, but there are concerns with him just like anyone else on the team. Unfortunately those concerns can't be voiced without some folks getting all upset thinking it's just some backwards way of defending Andy. The old boards had been better with this stuff lately, but these new boards seem to be going back to old habits.

Oh well. I guess the level-headed discussions were fun while they lasted. 

(06-04-2015, 09:33 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: [ -> ]All of them?

Well, if he's a top 5 WR in the game you'd assume at some point he would be able to "make a play" to rise above right?
Like if the QB hits him in stride down the sideline down by 10 late in the game and he drops it...or if he lets a DB repeatedly knock a ball from him in the end zone?

When Andy messes up, it's because he's incompetent...when AJ messes up, it's because everyone else. 

Or maybe go and get a ball instead of constantly laying back waiting for it.

(06-04-2015, 11:48 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: [ -> ]There's little doubt Dalton has had "issues" with off target throws, not throwing receivers open, putting to much air under it, and on and on.

But there's also little doubt, in my mind anyways, that AJ is not near as faultless as many want to portray him. Like a couple people have said, to me he's not nearly physical enough at times. He let's press coverage get into his head, and he's had some big drops on catchable balls. And some crunch time fumbles.

Bottom line - they both have much room for improvement !

I never see anybody portray him as faultless.  That's the weird thing about this whole "Let's make sure we throw some  criticism AJ's way" phenomenon.  If all these people are harping on this, how does that jibe with the AJ is immune narrative?

I also think too many people want him to be Megatron or Julio Jones when that's just not who he is, which is why people keep endlessly repeating this.

Obviously, no one is immune.  But can we just stop acting like anyone thinks AJ is a god or above his fair share of criticism? 

I can't say what anyone else is thinking, but I can say I just don't see it expressed by anybody.  This is a JN myth.

(06-04-2015, 07:39 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: [ -> ]16) Cincinnati Bengals: Andy Dalton, Jeremy Hill & A.J. Green

Previous rank: No. 13

Green doesn't get enough credit for perpetually biting his lip when the subject of his QB's mediocrity arises. Deep down, Green no doubt knows his lofty production comes in spite of the Red Rifle, not because of it. Hill further proves Cincy's decision-makers know what they're doing at the draft.

See entire list @ NFL.COM

In the AFC.