Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise

(06-08-2015, 03:40 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: [ -> ]What does Peyton Manning have to do with this? 

John Fox has been to a Super Bowl with Jake Delhomme, and won a playoff game with Tim Tebow.  Tim. Tebow.

(06-08-2015, 03:40 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: [ -> ]What does Peyton Manning have to do with this? 

John Fox has more playoff wins with Tim Tebow than Marvin Lewis has his entire head coaching career.

(06-07-2015, 10:59 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: [ -> ]A HC isn't judged by wins over 2-14 teams in the regular season AKA "leading a team to the playoffs". He's judged by wins in big games, prime time, crunch time, and of course post season. All of which Marvin is a giant failure of epic proportions !

One playoff win isn't going to change that. The only way he can get into the top 10, IMHO, which means little. Is a couple deep playoff runs and a Super Bowl win.

I want to make sure I am understanding this correctly.....you are stating that in making the playoffs in 5-6 seasons we have only managed to beat teams that had 2-14 records?

Tomlin @#5 = invalid list

Tomlin is so overrated it isn't funny.

(06-07-2015, 09:12 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: [ -> ]According to Marvez, of FoxSports, Marvin ranks right in the middle of the pack at 16.  

Something that popped out to me: Zimm and Gruden near the bottom of the list. That's quite interesting. I don't think they are the worst in the NFL, but maybe they are ranking them there because of how new they are?

(06-08-2015, 06:30 PM)BoomerFan Wrote: [ -> ]Tomlin @#5 = invalid list

Tomlin is so overrated it isn't funny.

Tell that to his Super Bowl ring....

(06-09-2015, 11:37 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: [ -> ]Something that popped out to me: Zimm and Gruden near the bottom of the list. That's quite interesting. I don't think they are the worst in the NFL, but maybe they are ranking them there because of how new they are?

That's the only thing I can figure. Not their lack of success, but their overall lack of a track record.

16th is underrated...

don't sleep on Marvin!

(06-09-2015, 02:09 PM)FanStuckInIndy Wrote: [ -> ]16th is underrated...

don't sleep on Marvin!

Yeah, watch out!

It's usually not until a head coach's 18th season in the league where they really show what they're capable of doing!

(06-07-2015, 10:05 PM)Benton Wrote: [ -> ]25ish.
the regular season belongs to the team and staff. Its about how deep the bench is, how quickly young players progress. The long term reliable plays developed by coordinators.

post season belongs to the top coaches. The ability to prepare their team. The ability to make the most of what you have. The ability to predict what the other team is going to do.

good orgs have solid seasons. Good coaches win in the post season.
Marvin gets a few points for his role in the regular season, but not much else.

So if Marvin had never made the postseason you would have him ranked a lot higher?

You are penalizing him for making the playoffs?

That doesn't make a lot of sense.

(06-09-2015, 04:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: [ -> ]So if Marvin had never made the postseason you would have him ranked a lot higher?

You are penalizing him for making the playoffs?

That doesn't make a lot of sense.

Eh?

No. I'm saying his inability to win in the postseason — which I think is the biggest test for a coach — penalizes him.

I give him some credit for being a part of consistent regular season success, but the biggest bulk of that goes to the overall strength of the organization. Drafting, developing, scheme implementation, training, player management — most of that answers to Marvin or at least hears what he has to say, but it takes a lot of talented individuals.

(06-09-2015, 05:00 PM)Benton Wrote: [ -> ]Eh?

No. I'm saying his inability to win in the postseason — which I think is the biggest test for a coach — penalizes him.

I give him some credit for being a part of consistent regular season success, but the biggest bulk of that goes to the overall strength of the organization. Drafting, developing, scheme implementation, training, player management — most of that answers to Marvin or at least hears what he has to say, but it takes a lot of talented individuals.

Then how the hell does he drop all the way to 25 when many coaches ahead of him would never even have made the postseason?

BTW coaching is just as important in the regular season as it is in the postseason.  That is why the good coaches generally win in both the regular season and the post season.  There is nothing to support your argument that coaching does not matter as much in the regular season as it does in the post season.

(06-09-2015, 05:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: [ -> ]Then how the hell does he drop all the way to 25 when many coaches ahead of him would never even have made the postseason?

BTW coaching is just as important in the regular season as it is in the postseason.  That is why the good coaches generally win in both the regular season and the post season.  There is nothing to support your argument that coaching does not matter as much in the regular season as it does in the post season.

To be fair, there are 7 coaches ranked lower than Marvin that have made the playoffs. 3 of which made it to the Super Bowl. All of them have had at least one playoff win.

But Marvin has had more recent success. So it's understandable why he is ranked higher than those coaches.

(06-09-2015, 05:38 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: [ -> ]To be fair, there are 7 coaches ranked lower than Marvin that have made the playoffs. 3 of which made it to the Super Bowl. All of them have had at least one playoff win.

But Marvin has had more recent success. So it's understandable why he is ranked higher than those coaches.

I agree.  I can't make a good argument for Marvin to be much higher than 16th, but when people say he is 25th that is just silly.  That is basically saying it is better to miss the playoffs than make the playoffs and lose.

(06-09-2015, 06:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: [ -> ]I agree.  I can't make a good argument for Marvin to be much higher than 16th, but when people say he is 25th that is just silly.  That is basically saying it is better to miss the playoffs than make the playoffs and lose.

There's good coaches who have had previous success, but they haven't in quite awhile. So I'm fine with Marvin being in the middle of the pack. Coaches are judged by postseason success, especially recently.

(06-09-2015, 05:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: [ -> ]Then how the hell does he drop all the way to 25 when many coaches ahead of him would never even have made the postseason?

BTW coaching is just as important in the regular season as it is in the postseason.  That is why the good coaches generally win in both the regular season and the post season.  There is nothing to support your argument that coaching does not matter as much in the regular season as it does in the post season.

That is why it's called opinion. Likewise, there's nothing to support that "coaching is just as important in the regular season as it is in the postseason.  That is why the good coaches generally win in both the regular season and the post season."

I just think long-term, overall success has more to do with the organization than one person.

(06-09-2015, 06:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: [ -> ]I agree.  I can't make a good argument for Marvin to be much higher than 16th, but when people say he is 25th that is just silly.  That is basically saying it is better to miss the playoffs than make the playoffs and lose.

If it's any consolation, I was putting O'Brien (not enough track record and that defense makes most coaches look good), Lovie, Philbin, Bradley, Quinn, Tomsula and Pettin as coaches that are either unknown or known to be worse. I'm just glad we don't have Lovie. After this season, he could fall further depending on what some of those guys can do. If O'Brien can keep Texas progressing and Philbin can get the Phins in the playoffs, then I'd put Lewis down another two spots.

(06-09-2015, 02:14 PM)djs7685 Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, watch out!

It's usually not until a head coach's 18th season in the league where they really show what they're capable of doing!

Is that sarcasm?  Ahem...  Sorry, I don't know you like that!

(06-09-2015, 06:44 PM)Benton Wrote: [ -> ]If it's any consolation, I was putting O'Brien (not enough track record and that defense makes most coaches look good), Lovie, Philbin, Bradley, Quinn, Tomsula and Pettin as coaches that are either unknown or known to be worse. I'm just glad we don't have Lovie. After this season, he could fall further depending on what some of those guys can do. If O'Brien can keep Texas progressing and Philbin can get the Phins in the playoffs, then I'd put Lewis down another two spots.

Okay, this is getting silly.  You would put Philbin ahead of Lewis if he makes the playoffs one time?  Philbin has never even had a single winning season in his entire career.

Is this a joke?

(06-10-2015, 01:22 AM)fredtoast Wrote: [ -> ]Okay, this is getting silly.  You would put Philbin ahead of Lewis if he makes the playoffs one time?  Philbin has never even had a single winning season in his entire career.

Is this a joke?

No, I consider Philbin among the same mediocre level of coaches that Marvin is in. He's good enough to not be a complete trainwreck as a coach while letting his players play. He doesn't subtract to the play on the field, but he doesn't add much to it.

And that's Marvin. 

Honestly, you could exchange Marvin with most of the guys 20-32 and get the same mediocre results. We've got a solid organization and a good roster. We're a good HC away from being the team to beat. Marvin isn't that coach.