(03-23-2021, 05:40 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: This doesn’t make any sense to me. Kyle Pitts still plays the exact same position as Freiermuth, except he is bigger, faster and more athletic. He is a TE with WR athleticism, but he is going to see LB and S coverage, not CB. That’s the big difference. He is a matchup nightmare. Kyle does everything that Pat does, except better.

(03-23-2021, 06:13 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Everything you posted here is what Pitts can do, but better.

He’s a chess piece you use to find better match ups on the defense. He’s faster than linebackers and taller than safeties. If you split him out corners aren’t tall enough to defend him.

Watch this video.  Only 3 or 4 times does he catch the ball between the hash marks and he's never being physical with the defenders, and he also caught those balls downfield, not where backers would have to keep an eye on him or where safeties couldn't be just dropping deep.  (May be two more between the hash where he caught a slant but no one was around.)





We want a tight end that's going to be a mismatch in the middle of the field, not a tight end that's going to be a mismatch on the outside or for defensive backs.  That's good and all to have, but a tight end that stays in the middle of the field keeps the safeties and backers in the box and inside the hash marks so they can't double wide receivers.

For Pitts, the defense just brings in another defensive back and then safety over the top helps, which is nice, but a tight end to force defenses to cover the middle of the field and also prevents safeties from doubling receivers is much more valuable.

(03-23-2021, 11:02 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: I know people have been wanting Pitts in the first round and it seems like it's either him or Sewell, but I think we should trade down in the first, get some extra picks, take Slater, and then get Freiermuth in the second and maybe even another player in the first or second depending on what we can get from a trade.

REASONING

I think Slater is actually a better prospect than Sewell and his lack of height and arm reach is the only weakness.  That's a big problem when thinking about a left tackle but if, and only if, Pollack thinks it's not a problem, then we take Slater and watch him become a better pro than Sewell.

I also like Freiermuth more than Pitts because I want my tight ends to be old school where they're more compact and can dish more of a force in the Gronk-type mold.  Freiermuth is an inch shorter than Pitts and 15 pounds heavier, so I feel like he'd be more of an outlet in the middle of the field and a safety net for Burrow.  

I think having a target up the seams and in the middle of the field would make our offense so much more dangerous and would elevate Burrow's game more than Pitts would and it would also give us a better red zone threat.

Thoughts?

I don;t any of us know what the Bengals draft board looks like.. though the lack of Oline FA signings leans me toward they are really looking at OLine in 1st and Slater has moved into many top 10 boards and is the top guard projected in the draft.. so no way I would assume it is Sewell or Pitts or Chase at #5 only.. plus you are correct if they want Slater, they might consider a trade back if offer is right and they feel confident they can still get him.

(03-23-2021, 08:17 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Watch this video.  Only 3 or 4 times does he catch the ball between the hash marks and he's never being physical with the defenders, and he also caught those balls downfield, not where backers would have to keep an eye on him or where safeties couldn't be just dropping deep.  (May be two more between the hash where he caught a slant but no one was around.)





We want a tight end that's going to be a mismatch in the middle of the field, not a tight end that's going to be a mismatch on the outside or for defensive backs.  That's good and all to have, but a tight end that stays in the middle of the field keeps the safeties and backers in the box and inside the hash marks so they can't double wide receivers.

For Pitts, the defense just brings in another defensive back and then safety over the top helps, which is nice, but a tight end to force defenses to cover the middle of the field and also prevents safeties from doubling receivers is much more valuable.

The problem is you are basing your opinion off a highlight video. Kyle is a TE that is a mismatch everywhere. He is 6’6, 240 and runs a 4.46. That is a problem for any player on the field. I would recommend watching something other than a highlight reel. Here is his game tape vs Alabama.

https://youtu.be/KtyZrHqfHq0

He catches several passes between the hashes in this game, if that’s what you truly want. He also shows off his versatility by beating CBs, LBs and safeties alike, even beating Surtain for a TD. He gets physical and does it all. He is head and shoulders better than Pat.

I don't see much difference between Slater, Darrisaw, and several of the OT prospects that are rated slightly lower. Slater doesn't have the length/power and Darrisaw doesn't have the feet - potentially limiting the upside of both. Both could be relegated to guard. 

Friermuth never looks like he's separating when I watch him - he's always wide open underneath after the defense is cleared out. Will that work against good defenses at the next level? Can't say that I see him having great upside. 

With a top 5 pick, they should really "chase the fat tail" on someone with high upside in the first round, whether at 5 or after a trade, JMHO. Swing for the potential HOFers.

(03-23-2021, 06:13 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Everything you posted here is what Pitts can do, but better.

He’s a chess piece you use to find better match ups on the defense. He’s faster than linebackers and taller than safeties. If you split him out corners aren’t tall enough to defend him.

Completely agree, Pitts is the best Receiver in this class possibly...

Let alone the best pass catching TE that maybe has ever came out. I don't want to pass on him now.

Grab another Guard and End in FA, draft Pitts, draft an OT and a Guard in the 2nd and 3rd is where I am leaning.

(03-23-2021, 11:18 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Completely agree, Pitts is the best Receiver in this class possibly...

Let alone the best pass catching TE that maybe has ever came out. I don't want to pass on him now.

Grab another Guard and End in FA, draft Pitts, draft an OT and a Guard in the 2nd and 3rd is where I am leaning.

I like Pitts a lot, but I don’t ever want to see Burrow carted off ever again. If Sewell is there I still feel the bengals should draft him and plug him in at guard his rookie year. If he isn’t there, take a pass catcher. I feel like any of the top 4 guys will immediately improve the offense. Don’t overthink the pick.

Slater at 5 is my nightmare scenario.

I don't get to watch a whole bunch of these guys. Whatever is on youtube. And I have never seen a projected top 5 pick OL get shoved around like he does. Boy I hope not.

So many OL in this class. Reaching for Slater is such a bad move.

(03-23-2021, 09:24 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: The problem is you are basing your opinion off a highlight video. Kyle is a TE that is a mismatch everywhere. He is 6’6, 240 and runs a 4.46. That is a problem for any player on the field. I would recommend watching something other than a highlight reel. Here is his game tape vs Alabama.

https://youtu.be/KtyZrHqfHq0

He catches several passes between the hashes in this game, if that’s what you truly want. He also shows off his versatility by beating CBs, LBs and safeties alike, even beating Surtain for a TD. He gets physical and does it all. He is head and shoulders better than Pat.

He does catch a few between the hashes and he does look like a great, generational talent at tight end, but I guess I'm just old school in that I want my tight end to be a more physical type.  I still feel like that's something we've always been lacking and I just think it would open up the field so much for our offense.

(03-24-2021, 08:31 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: He does catch a few between the hashes and he does look like a great, generational talent at tight end, but I guess I'm just old school in that I want my tight end to be a more physical type.  I still feel like that's something we've always been lacking and I just think it would open up the field so much for our offense.

Sample and Pitts can be on the field at the same.Sample is your blocking TE.
This offense needs a TE that just puts the defense back on its heels
This offense needs a  threat to score everytime he touches the ball.
It lacks that now. 

(03-23-2021, 11:14 AM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I like this much better than any Pitts or Chase scenario at 5 and agree that Freiermuth would be a better fit for the offense our coaches run. 

I might be in the minority, but I don't see TE as a pressing need to take one in the 2nd or 3rd. 

I love Quinten Morris, TE, BGSU.  The only talent at BG this past year.  Former WR that grew in to a TE and has great hands, speed, and toughness.  A Texas kid.

If we got him in the 5th round, I would be ecstatic.  

(03-24-2021, 03:06 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Slater at 5 is my nightmare scenario.

I don't get to watch a whole bunch of these guys. Whatever is on youtube. And I have never seen a projected top 5 pick OL get shoved around like he does. Boy I hope not.

So many OL in this class. Reaching for Slater is such a bad move.

Picking top guard in draft with our need is not a reach at 5, he is projected top 10 pick, now if we can switch with Panthers great slight move back means extra pick. I will take extra 3rd in thos trade back scenario all day
https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-three-round-nfl-mock-draft-zach-wilson-jets-san-francisco-49ers-justin-fields

(03-23-2021, 08:17 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Watch this video.  Only 3 or 4 times does he catch the ball between the hash marks and he's never being physical with the defenders, and he also caught those balls downfield, not where backers would have to keep an eye on him or where safeties couldn't be just dropping deep.  (May be two more between the hash where he caught a slant but no one was around.)





We want a tight end that's going to be a mismatch in the middle of the field, not a tight end that's going to be a mismatch on the outside or for defensive backs.  That's good and all to have, but a tight end that stays in the middle of the field keeps the safeties and backers in the box and inside the hash marks so they can't double wide receivers.

For Pitts, the defense just brings in another defensive back and then safety over the top helps, which is nice, but a tight end to force defenses to cover the middle of the field and also prevents safeties from doubling receivers is much more valuable.

Who is "we" and why would "we" want to pigeonhole a TE to have to be just a middle-of-the-field guy?
The Bengals need better play outside the hash marks too.
With a guy like Pitts, you could keep Uzomah or Sample inline with Boyd in the slot and have Pitts out wide. Or have a smaller, fast, quick receiver inside along with Boyd.
The intent of a guy like Pitts is that he's so diverse that he can literally play anywhere and will always be a threat. There's a ton of value in that.

(03-23-2021, 04:57 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I agree the NFL is adapting and phasing out these style tight ends, but that's why I think Freiermuth is more valuable.

The way the NFL is adapting is just using tight ends as big receivers, which why wouldn't we just draft a big receiver?  

A traditional tight end still a weapon in the red zone and still makes the defense respect the middle of the field, which is huge for play action.

Other teams will also have troubles preparing for a tight end like Freiermuth because they don't have anyone to mimic him in practice and don't face many like him in any other games.

It gives Burrow the entire field to use as an option and pick where he wants to throw the ball.

Maybe people need to quit thinking of Pitts as "just" a TE and starting thinking of him as a big receiver who can also play TE.
Maybe that would remove the stigma that some people have of him being taken so early.


I realize this may be a stretch of a comparison, but maybe Kyle Pitts is the next Calvin Johnson.
They are nearly identical in size.
Pitts is just slightly slower than Calvin was.
I think Pitts' floor is Darren Waller (1100+ yards in a season), but I think his ceiling can be Calvin.

Maybe this video will change your mind on Pitts - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pW0k9yR910

(03-24-2021, 07:37 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Who is "we" and why would "we" want to pigeonhole a TE to have to be just a middle-of-the-field guy?
The Bengals need better play outside the hash marks too.
With a guy like Pitts, you could keep Uzomah or Sample inline with Boyd in the slot and have Pitts out wide. Or have a smaller, fast, quick receiver inside along with Boyd.
The intent of a guy like Pitts is that he's so diverse that he can literally play anywhere and will always be a threat. There's a ton of value in that.

We as in those that wants best for the team, and you don't want him to be "just-a-middle-of-the-field guy," but you definitely want that as a possibility to widen the field and make the defense guard more field.  You have receivers for the outside, but a tight end that can go outside or inside and catch balls in traffic within fifteen yards and be a physical presence opens things up so much for the receivers on the outside and also makes Burrow's life a lot easier.

(03-24-2021, 08:00 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: We as in those that wants east for the team, and you don't want him to be "just-a-middle-of-the-field guy," but you definitely want that as a possibility to widen the field and make the defense guard more field.  You have receivers for the outside, but a tight end that can go outside or inside and catch balls in traffic within fifteen yards and be a physical presence opens things up so much for the receivers on the outside and also makes Burrow's life a lot easier.

You're labeling Pitts as being an outside-only guy. That's wrong. He can play outside, he can play in the slot, and he can play TE.
At this point, if you don't agree with that, there's nothing I can do to convince you and we'll have to agree to disagree because you'll never change my mind.

This is why no other TE is going to go in 1 and why Pitts should go top 5 or 10.

Honestly if not Pitts then maybe tgey can get Brevin Jordan in the 3rd. Just not that impressed with Freiermuth

(03-24-2021, 03:06 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Slater at 5 is my nightmare scenario.

I don't get to watch a whole bunch of these guys. Whatever is on youtube. And I have never seen a projected top 5 pick OL get shoved around like he does. Boy I hope not.

So many OL in this class. Reaching for Slater is such a bad move.

Bucky Brooks had us taking Slater at 5 in his last mock on NFL Network. He didnt even have Pitts in the top 10. I was surprised. My thinking is that if we are targeting Slater in the first, we trade back and get extra picks. Otherwise it has to be Sewell, Chase or Pitts at 5, imo. I would be fine with any one of them. 

(03-24-2021, 06:01 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Picking top guard in draft with our need is not a reach at 5, he is projected top 10 pick, now if we can switch with Panthers great slight move back means extra pick. I will take extra 3rd in thos trade back scenario all day
https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-three-round-nfl-mock-draft-zach-wilson-jets-san-francisco-49ers-justin-fields

He didn’t even play football last year and we are projecting him to G. We saw how great short armed college dominator Price has done in the NFL.

We better pass all day everyday on the short arm tackle who didn’t play football last year that we are projecting to G.

If he turns out great for someone else good for them. Wayyyyyyyy too many questions for my team to be taking this guy at 5.

Go watch him and tell me you see a world beater worthy of a top 5 pick...
It won’t happen. Because the tape doesn’t exist.

(03-25-2021, 12:37 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: He didn’t even play football last year and we are projecting him to G. We saw how great short armed college dominator Price has done in the NFL.

We better pass all day everyday on the short arm tackle who didn’t play football last year that we are projecting to G.

If he turns out great for someone else good for them. Wayyyyyyyy too many questions for my team to be taking this guy at 5.

Go watch him and tell me you see a world beater worthy of a top 5 pick...
It won’t happen. Because the tape doesn’t exist.

Man, I agree 100% with this. 

(03-25-2021, 12:37 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: He didn’t even play football last year and we are projecting him to G. We saw how great short armed college dominator Price has done in the NFL.

We better pass all day everyday on the short arm tackle who didn’t play football last year that we are projecting to G.

If he turns out great for someone else good for them. Wayyyyyyyy too many questions for my team to be taking this guy at 5.

Go watch him and tell me you see a world beater worthy of a top 5 pick...
It won’t happen. Because the tape doesn’t exist.

So you are critical of him not playing but ok.og Chase and Sewell not playing?? And I watched him play and I agree with many of those that evaluate him, best guard in draft and worth a top 10 pick..