(04-08-2021, 01:30 AM)PDub80 Wrote: The Bengals are running 4 & 5 wide sets a ton now w Joe Burrow. The WRs last year got horrible separation. Been that way for 3-4 years.

I cannot imagine the Bengals running 5 wide w Boyd, Higgins, Green, Tate, & Stanley Morgan.

^ That would actually be a WORSE 5 man unit than the starting O line.

I get the point that 5 of them are on the field at once all the time. I just see a way deeper oline class this year where guys in the 2nd or 3rd would have previously been 1st & 2nd rounders. The WR group is deep this year, but weird. The better guys after Chase that are expected to be there in the 2nd are all under 6' tall and don't really fit the Bengals.

Chase reminds me of a bigger, faster, strongernger Steve Smith. Sewell is turning out to be more mythical than real. Measured just under 6'5" with 33 1/4" arms. That is wayyyyy on the smaller side for a a top tier OT. The Bengals cannot take a G at 5.

I agree with you but you forgot to take green out,he's gone

(04-08-2021, 01:46 AM)BobJohnson55 Wrote: I agree with you but you forgot to take green out,he's gone

Duh! Thanks! Edited it and swapped out Green for Thomas... and now it looks even WORSE. Ha!

More updates. Interesting that the majority of starting LT's are 1st rounders. I'd need to read through it more throughly but it seems O lineman are more of a premium than WR. And there's obviously been countless first round busts while a majority of the guys getting playing time are not in the 1st round. Ultimately I would just take Joe Burrow's advice myself. If he likes/wants his old buddy that bad over a premium lineman give it to the man. But if it was just me I'd take Sewell or trade down a few spots and take a lineman.

Sorry Joe but if I’m drafting I take sewell a receiver at 38 and a guard in round 3. Still need a edge rusher but if we can hit on our first 3 picks anything else would be a bonus.

You can't fix a team this bad in one draft.

(04-08-2021, 07:34 AM)Waite Hoyt Wrote: Sorry Joe but if I’m drafting I take sewell a receiver at 38 and a guard in round 3. Still need a edge rusher but if we can hit on our first 3 picks anything else would be a bonus.

They have starting grades on linemen through round 3 at least, but there’s not that many outside receivers after round 1. My money is on Chase as Tobin likes what he hears from Joe and I’m sure the pro day did work for his stock too.

It may be reductive, but I think if Joe wants Chase more than he wants protection, you do that.

The big thing we have to be concerned with regarding Joe is disillusionment. If Joe is coming off an injury and, in some way, blames the Bengals for his injury (not saying he does, just a hypothetical), then you want to do everything you can to fix the Oline to show him you don't intend to Andrew Luck him.

If he has openly said "to fully unlock our offense, I really want Chase. Don't worry about protection, we'll work it out, I want weapons" then I definitely draft Chase.

The NFL has become a QB driven league over the last few decades, with this most recent generation of QBs really taking that seriously. Look at Russell Wilson, Deshaun Watson (before all of these allegations), Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes. They all, for lack of a better term, control the team's direction and believe they should have input, if not final say, when it comes to players around them on offense. Wilson and the Seahawks are having internal feuding over this topic. Watson and the Texans were as well before Watson destroyed his career by allegedly sexually assaulting dozens of message therapists...

The point is, keep Joe happy and we will prosper. Our Oline isn't complete but if they believe they can find a starting guard in round 2, I say go for it. You can always replace Reiff next off season.

Or, if he plays well, you can resign Reiff and kick that RT can down the road a little further. We need good Olinemen, but our most glaring need right now is guard and I just don't think we need Sewell to play RG this season. Filling a guard with a top 5 pick, even if you plan to move him outside in a year or two, feels like overkill. That's something a 2nd round pick can handle. And, if we're not confident in RT in 2022, the 2022 draft or free agency is there as well.

It seems silly now because, literally, all season the entire fan base (for the most part) has campaigned for Sewell (like the sign at that game) and now we actually have a really good shot at landing him and we're turning away. That doesn't usually happen. Maybe this is a case of prospect fatigue and we're losing sight of just how good Sewell is, but I don't want the same thing to happen to Chase. If he's the superior prospect that takes our offense over the top, I say go get him.

(04-08-2021, 07:34 AM)Waite Hoyt Wrote: Sorry Joe but if I’m drafting I take sewell a receiver at 38 and a guard in round 3. Still need a edge rusher but if we can hit on our first 3 picks anything else would be a bonus.

Sewell isn't a game changer, Chase is

(04-08-2021, 08:38 AM)Trademark Wrote: Sewell isn't a game changer, Chase is

True dat. 
When was the last time the Bengals drafted a WR that was ready to produce and make plays right out the gate?
You have to go back to AJ Green.

The Bengals need a target whether its Chase Pitts Smith
That ready to get 8 targets game 1. 
Boyd Tate Ross and even Higgins was ready to make plays
Game 1. 

Chase and Pitts dominated elite talent in the SEC and ACC
If the Bengals wait till the mid RDs to draft a WR then chances
Are it takes those kind of targets to find their footing.

I think Joe wants a target he can chop up a secondary week 1
Not wait till mid season.

If the Bengals go oline very early and often then you can bet 
Boyd Higgins will see double teams and the 3 others single up 
You don't need a great oline to move the ball downfield
The Chiefs never had a great oline under Mahomes
But they had great targets that could seperate cause of scheme
And skill.

(04-08-2021, 07:34 AM)Waite Hoyt Wrote: Sorry Joe but if I’m drafting I take sewell a receiver at 38 and a guard in round 3. Still need a edge rusher but if we can hit on our first 3 picks anything else would be a bonus.

To me if you have a top 5 pick you take the player that will win more games for you over the course of a season.  A great O lineman will help but a great WR will make more game changing plays.  Plus, a great WR will affect your opponent more because they will have to strategize more to contain and that should open up other areas to exploit for the offense.

Sewell may turn out to be a HOF player but I don't take him at 5.  If this truly is a deep draft for OL you can get a good one in the 2nd.  I don't think the same can be said for this WR class.

(04-08-2021, 08:38 AM)Trademark Wrote: Sewell isn't a game changer, Chase is

Giving Burrow time to throw and Mixon room to run is game changing

(04-08-2021, 09:15 AM)impactplaya Wrote: True dat. 
When was the last time the Bengals drafted a WR that was ready to produce and make plays right out the gate?
You have to go back to AJ Green.

The Bengals need a target whether its Chase Pitts Smith
That ready to get 8 targets game 1. 
Boyd Tate Ross and even Higgins was ready to make plays
Game 1. 

Chase and Pitts dominated elite talent in the SEC and ACC
If the Bengals wait till the mid RDs to draft a WR then chances
Are it takes those kind of targets to find their footing.

I think Joe wants a target he can chop up a secondary week 1
Not wait till mid season.

If the Bengals go oline very early and often then you can bet 
Boyd Higgins will see double teams and the 3 others single up 
You don't need a great oline to move the ball downfield
The Chiefs never had a great oline under Mahomes
But they had great targets that could seperate cause of scheme
And skill.

the chiefs got beat in super bowl because their OL play was Terrible

(04-08-2021, 07:53 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: You can't fix a team this bad in one draft.

I don't think the Bengals are actually THAT bad.

First 8 games, I can point to 1 or 2 plays that were there to be made each game where the Bengals would have won. Realistically, the Bengals should have been 6-2 AT WORST at the half-way point last season... if guys just did their job. I'm talking unforced errors, not plays the other team made.

And that was going through the hardest part of their schedule. I think they could be very good this year.... depending on how Joey B's knee heals up, of course.

(04-08-2021, 09:48 AM)Waite Hoyt Wrote: Giving Burrow time to throw and Mixon room to run is game changing

Seriously.

I don't get it; first, Chase people were bagging on Sewell people, saying that, "they're making frivolous excuses to not want to draft Chase," and now the Chase people are turning around and doing the exact same thing.

I don't care who we draft, as both will have a positive impact and improve the team.

But saying things like, "OL won't win you games," or, "OL aren't game changers," is beyond ridiculous; this is a TEAM sport and the entire TEAM has to work well together, cohesively. If the trenches don't work, then the weapons won't be able to function correctly. If the weapons don't function correctly, then the trenches' work is completely wasted and for nothing.

Just be happy with whomever we get and cut out the hyperbole/exaggeration.

(04-08-2021, 09:51 AM)Waite Hoyt Wrote: the chiefs got beat in super bowl because their OL play was Terrible

Yeah of course it was bad. Most of their starting oline
Didnt play that game.
And they got beat too cause Tampa was doubling 
Hill and Kelce and the other targets couldnt get seperation
Tampa,was rushing 4 dropping 7. 
Mahomes had to hold the ball longer than he is used too

(04-08-2021, 09:53 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Seriously.

I don't get it; first, Chase people were bagging on Sewell people, saying that, "they're making frivolous excuses to not want to draft Chase," and now the Chase people are turning around and doing the exact same thing.

I don't care who we draft, as both will have a positive impact and improve the team.

But saying things like, "OL won't win you games," or, "OL aren't game changers," is beyond ridiculous; this is a TEAM sport and the entire TEAM has to work well together, cohesively. If the trenches don't work, then the weapons won't be able to function correctly. If the weapons don't function correctly, then the trenches' work is completely wasted and for nothing.

Just be happy with whomever we get and cut out the hyperbole/exaggeration.

Many will tell build good offensive and defensive fronts is the key to winning football games

(04-07-2021, 11:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So a difference of two picks over twenty years  equals "blowing 1st round after 1st round on OL"?

Seattle and Miami who both made the playoffs last year have also used 6 first round picks on O-linemen this century.  Cleveland used 5.

Meanwhile the 3 winningest teams of this century (NE. Pitt, GB) combined have used a grand total of 4 first round picks on WRs this century.

The difference between the Bengals 1st round picks on OL and the typical playoff team from last year was 150-200%.  2 picks is 10% of your 1st round draft capital over 20 years.  

Seattle has only spent 5 1st's on OL this century.  The century started in '01,not '00.  Miami didn't make the playoffs this past year.  

All of the teams in the conference championship games this year had at least 1 All Pro WR.  2 had All Pro TE's.  Three of the 4 had at least 2 All Pro targets in the passing game. With this looking like a growing trend, it would be silly to ignore those position groups if you think that type of player is there because you have Higgins and Boyd.

Good teams historically don't spend a ton of 1st round picks on WR's, but they don't spend a ton of them on OL, either.  Stick to your board and get who you think is the best player.  

(04-08-2021, 09:15 AM)impactplaya Wrote: The Chiefs never had a great oline under Mahomes

They had 2 All Pros in Schwartz and Osemili. They reason they lost the Super Bowl this year was that those 2 were out with injury.

(04-08-2021, 09:15 AM)impactplay Wrote: When was the last time the Bengals drafted a WR that was ready to produce and make plays right out the gate?

Last year

(04-08-2021, 08:26 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Wilson and the Seahawks are having internal feuding over this topic. Watson and the Texans were as well

Great point. Wilson and Watson know a hell of a lot more about playing in the NFL than Burrow and they are both demanding better pass blocking instead of WRs.