There is a receiving option at 38 folks are overlooking:

Player A: (Combine) 6'4", 211 ibs, 4.48 forty, 34.5" vert, 10'6" broad, 34.33" Arms, 9.25" hands 4.21 short shuttle, 6.91 three-cone, 19 reps on bench

Player B: (Pro Day) 6.4", 214 ibs, 4.43 forty, 37.5" vert, 10'5" broad, 34.125" Arms 9.37" hands, 4.31 short shuttle, 6.71 three-cone, 14 reps on bench

As to "outside threat": Player B; had over 700 receiving yards at almost 20 YPC in last college season

Player A: AJ Green

Player B: Nico Collins

(04-17-2021, 02:53 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: We wouldn't be having this discussion if Chase played at any other school than LSU.  I look back at this year and can't really think of too many people during the season saying  "boy, we have a huge need at WR and we really need to address it as a priority in the offseaon"

I just can't figure out why it's happening now.  

Now, I can go back and look at nearly every game and say, holy crap, how much better would this offense be if we would run the ball and stop getting out QB hit so much.

I remember a whole lot of people complaining about our receiving corp once you get past Higgins and Boyd. And you're probably right about not having this conversation if Chase played elsewhere, but from what I read when they were studying all the tape on Burrow last year, they consistently saw Chase on the other end of those plays. That sticks with you. Both are top prospects, but the drop off at Oline is not as drastic as the drop off at WR. Personally, I want both, so I can't decide, so I'll just be happy with either.

(04-18-2021, 11:48 AM)bfine32 Wrote: There is a receiving option at 38 folks are overlooking:

Player A: (Combine) 6'4", 211 ibs, 4.48 forty, 34.5" vert, 10'6" broad, 34.33" Arms, 9.25" hands 4.21 short shuttle, 6.91 three-cone, 19 reps on bench

Player B: (Pro Day) 6.4", 214 ibs, 4.43 forty, 37.5"  vert, 10'5" broad, 34.125" Arms 9.37" hands, 4.31 short shuttle, 6.71 three-cone, 14 reps on bench

As to "outside threat": Player B; had over 700 receiving yards at almost 20 YPC in last college season

Player A: AJ Green

Player B: Nico Collins

Also, and very significantly, Play B had a dumpster fire for a QB and a revolving cast of offensive coaches and philosophies.  Nicco can play when given the chance and he is going to make some team look very smart for drafting him.

(04-18-2021, 12:16 PM)Burma Wrote: Also, and very significantly, Play B had  dumpster fire for a QB and a revolving cast of offensive coaches and philosophies.  Nicco can play when given the chance and he is going to make some team.look very smart for drafting him.

Damn... The parallels with AJ Green keep on coming.

(04-18-2021, 12:18 PM)jason Wrote: Damn... The parallels with AJ Green keep on coming.

 It was bad in Ann Arbor. So bad.  Aaron Murray would have been the best QB on that roster, and more sadly the best QB the team has seen in awhile. 

(04-18-2021, 11:48 AM)bfine32 Wrote: There is a receiving option at 38 folks are overlooking:

Player A: (Combine) 6'4", 211 ibs, 4.48 forty, 34.5" vert, 10'6" broad, 34.33" Arms, 9.25" hands 4.21 short shuttle, 6.91 three-cone, 19 reps on bench

Player B: (Pro Day) 6.4", 214 ibs, 4.43 forty, 37.5"  vert, 10'5" broad, 34.125" Arms 9.37" hands, 4.31 short shuttle, 6.71 three-cone, 14 reps on bench

As to "outside threat": Player B; had over 700 receiving yards at almost 20 YPC in last college season

Player A: AJ Green

Player B: Nico Collins

I like Collins, but I think he'll most likely still be available in the 3rd.

(04-18-2021, 12:16 PM)Burma Wrote: Also, and very significantly, Play B had a dumpster fire for a QB and a revolving cast of offensive coaches and philosophies.  Nicco can play when given the chance and he is going to make some team look very smart for drafting him.

I love that he isn't afraid of contact or fighting for the ball. 

(04-18-2021, 11:48 AM)bfine32 Wrote: There is a receiving option at 38 folks are overlooking:

Player A: (Combine) 6'4", 211 ibs, 4.48 forty, 34.5" vert, 10'6" broad, 34.33" Arms, 9.25" hands 4.21 short shuttle, 6.91 three-cone, 19 reps on bench

Player B: (Pro Day) 6.4", 214 ibs, 4.43 forty, 37.5"  vert, 10'5" broad, 34.125" Arms 9.37" hands, 4.31 short shuttle, 6.71 three-cone, 14 reps on bench

As to "outside threat": Player B; had over 700 receiving yards at almost 20 YPC in last college season

Player A: AJ Green

Player B: Nico Collins

I like Collins, but he needs a ton of development.  Kid's a terrible route runner.  The only times he actually seems to get open are busted coverages or when he can just run right by the DB.  There's no way I take him at 38 because he's just not going to be ready to contribute significantly as a rookie.  

(04-17-2021, 02:37 PM)Burma Wrote: What is mind boggling is how viturally everyone "in the know" is saying to take Sewell yet the Bengals are leaning towards Chase (possibly a smoke screen).  When everyone in the room is disagreeing with you, you have to stop and think, "is it I who am wrong?" Unless you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you are the smartest person in that room there is a good chance you are wrong. I have zero confidence that the Bengals front office is ever the smartest person in any room, contrary to their own perceptions.

(04-17-2021, 02:53 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: We wouldn't be having this discussion if Chase played at any other school than LSU.  I look back at this year and can't really think of too many people during the season saying  "boy, we have a huge need at WR and we really need to address it as a priority in the offseaon"

I just can't figure out why it's happening now.  

Now, I can go back and look at nearly every game and say, holy crap, how much better would this offense be if we would run the ball and stop getting out QB hit so much.

These two posts are thread enders. The list of guys saying to take Sewell is essentially the Bengals Hall of Fame. The Chase side is Tony Pike and Jim Mora.

And Hammerstripes raises a fantastic point. Where was all this "draft a WR" talk before?

I think people saw the pro day numbers, see the LSU connection with Burrow, see the season Jefferson had, and fell in lust with a player we simply don't need. Now narratives are being crafted on how desperate we are for a star WR, when I don't think anyone watching this team was saying that was a big problem last year.

(04-18-2021, 01:43 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I love that he isn't afraid of contact or fighting for the ball. 

His attitude was always outstanding.  I don't recall ever seeing him quit on a play and, as you said he had no fear of contact. I think a lot of that developed as he realized he was not going to have great QB play and if he wanted anything he was going to have to fight for it. He played through a sports hernia at the tail end of the 2018 season.  I don't think we ever really found out when it happened, or how bad it was, but he did have surgery between the 18 and 19 season. And even with the terrible state of the team and being proected as a 1st round pick in the 2020 draft ( https://www.si.com/college/michigan/football/nico-collins-todd-mcshay-nfl-draft-mock-first-round-jim-harbaugh ) he still wanted to come back for his senior season and help the team take the next step.  But then the covid happened and he opted out.  

(04-18-2021, 12:29 PM)Burma Wrote:  It was bad in Ann Arbor. So bad.  Aaron Murray would have been the best QB on that roster, and more sadly the best QB the team has seen in awhile. 

I love the struggles at Michigan. They owned us in my time at OSU.

For me, this is simple. Take the tackle. Why?

1) Your franchise QB ran for his life all year last year. We couldn't run for beans. He got hurt. Seriously. Protecting Burrow is priority #1. Nothing else should even be close.

2) OT is a more impactful position than WR (or TE). Having elite tackle play ripples through the team. Easier to run. Opens up play action. More time to throw helps QB & receivers. No help needed helps other OL.

For my money, I'd rank positional importance like this:
Tier 1: QB
Tier 2: OT/DE
Tier 3: WR/CB
Tier 4: IOL/DT
Tier 5: RB/TE/LB/S
Tier 6: PK/P/KR/PR
Tier 7: LS

3) When building a team, if you have the chance to draft an elite guy at various positions, you generally take the guy higher up the chart. Now, sometimes a guy is so off the charts good at his spot (Pitts) that you have to re-evaluate. Or your team has needs at a lower spot but has the more important spits covered.

4) Our needs and opportunity meet. And while we need WR1 and Chase and Pitts are dynamite, you build at QB first, then trenches. You'd think a team that plays the Steelers & Ravens twice a year would get that.

Personally, I'd be VERY tempted to go OL in Rds 1 and again in Round 2. Take Sewell AND an elite IOL guy. Turn a weakness into a strength. In a cost controlled way. Rd 3 at the latest for 2nd OL.

Worry about weapons, DE, and stuff later in the draft, the rest of FA, and next year.

(04-18-2021, 02:04 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: These two posts are thread enders. The list of guys saying to take Sewell is essentially the Bengals Hall of Fame. The Chase side is Tony Pike and Jim Mora.

And Hammerstripes raises a fantastic point. Where was all this "draft a WR" talk before?

The truth is that people saw the pro day numbers, see the LSU connection with Burrow, see the season Jefferson had, and fell in lust with a player we simply don't need. Now narratives are being crafted before our eyes on how desperate we are for a star WR, when I don't think anyone watching this team was saying that was our chief problem last year.

The thing that is driving me crazy about this 'debate' is that many in the Sewell crowd act like there are no worthy o-linemen after the 1st round. That's just silly as shit. There will be quality starters that can improve this line if Sewell isn't taken.

Same goes for a lot of the Chase crowd, acting like there aren't any options at WR if they don't take him. Equally as silly. There will be guys that can help Burrow and this offense after the 1st round if Chase isn't the pick.

Both of those guys are going to be absolute studs for the next decade or more, IMO, and both will elevate this team if taken...and they'll still get a quality talent at the other position in after the 1st round. 

Sure Munoz is going to say this.He’s a former O-lineman himself.There are many very skilled O-linemen in this draft.Address this issue with that early pick in the second round.Everbody is talking like it’s Sewell or bust.This guy is overhyped.Remember Marcus Mariota and Jamieus Winston,Quarterbacks,How overhyped they were?Like they were going to be the greatest Quarterbacks to ever play in the NFL.Drafrlted 1&2,or something like that.Where are they now?Draft Chase and be done with it.Bengals are in a division with Browns,Ravens,Steelers,which are all fiercely competitive playoff contenders.You better have some fire power or you are going to get buried by these 3 teams every time.

(04-18-2021, 02:21 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The thing that is driving me crazy about this 'debate' is that many in the Sewell crowd act like there are no worthy o-linemen after the 1st round. That's just silly as shit. There will be quality starters that can improve this line if Sewell isn't taken.

Same goes for a lot of the Chase crowd, acting like there aren't any options at WR if they don't take him. Equally as silly. There will be guys that can help Burrow and this offense after the 1st round if Chase isn't the pick.

Both of those guys are going to be absolute studs for the next decade or more, IMO, and both will elevate this team if taken...and they'll still get a quality talent at the other position in after the 1st round. 

I know that we could get a solid lineman later. Maybe. Thing about that is we've had a much better track record of taking WR's in round 2 than linemen. I also factor in a myriad of other factors.

1. QB/WR tandems like Stafford/Megatron and Ryan/Julio rarely work. It's a ton of money invested in one facet of the offense.

2. If you have an elite QB (which I think Burrow will be), I'd say it's better to spread that money around to blocking/defense. He'll make our WR's look good.

3. If you draft Chase, say goodbye to Higgins in 3 years. We can't pay big bucks to everyone in the pass offense.

4. Yes, we could get a lineman later...but whatever need we address at #5, we're taking a risk with the need we don't address there. There's no guarantee that the linemen we want will be sitting there in the 2nd round. We could also have a gem fall in our laps that isn't a lineman. Would we then pass to stick with the need?

That's why I think you address what is clearly your biggest need first. If we miss on a lineman in this draft, I'd say our 2021 line will be pretty ugly, right? If we miss on a speed WR, it'll suck but won't be the end of the world. I think we can get by on what we have.

(04-18-2021, 02:21 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The thing that is driving me crazy about this 'debate' is that many in the Sewell crowd act like there are no worthy o-linemen after the 1st round. That's just silly as shit. There will be quality starters that can improve this line if Sewell isn't taken.

Same goes for a lot of the Chase crowd, acting like there aren't any options at WR if they don't take him. Equally as silly. There will be guys that can help Burrow and this offense after the 1st round if Chase isn't the pick.

Both of those guys are going to be absolute studs for the next decade or more, IMO, and both will elevate this team if taken...and they'll still get a quality talent at the other position in after the 1st round. 

Last year it was Joe Burrow then has to be an Offensive Tackle at #33 this year the second round in a deeper offensive line class isnt good enough lol.

I'm good either way Chase or Sewell because I know there's great prospects going to be available at #38...the crazy thing what happens if they take Chase then someone like Jaelan Phillips slides...

(04-18-2021, 02:35 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: Sure Munoz is going to say this.He’s a former O-lineman himself.There are many very skilled O-linemen in this draft.Address this issue with that early pick in the second round.Everbody is talking like it’s Sewell or bust.This guy is overhyped.Remember Marcus Mariota and Jamieus Winston,Quarterbacks,How overhyped they were?Like they were going to be the greatest Quarterbacks to ever play in the NFL.Drafrlted 1&2,or something like that.Where are they now?Draft Chase and be done with it.Bengals are in a division with Browns,Ravens,Steelers,which are all fiercely competitive playoff contenders.You better have some fire power or you are going to get buried by these 3 teams every time.

Houshmanzadeh and Tim McGee, two of the best WR's in team history are also saying to draft Sewell over the WR.

(04-18-2021, 02:38 PM)Synric Wrote: Last year it was Joe Burrow then has to be an Offensive Tackle at #33 this year the second round in a deeper offensive line class isnt good enough lol.

I'm good either way Chase or Sewell because I know there's great prospects going to be available at #38...the crazy thing what happens if they take Chase then someone like Jaelan Phillips slides...

The board implodes while waiting for the pick the Bengals pick to be announced. 

Honestly, if that were to happen, I would take Phillips, and then trade back into the 2nd as high as I could and grab a lineman.

I want to like Collins, but he looks like such a linear mover.  I'm not seeing hips anything close to AJ's.  Maybe it's because he takes long strides, or maybe he's just not a sudden route runner.

(04-18-2021, 02:45 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The board implodes while waiting for the pick the Bengals pick to be announced. 

Honestly, if that were to happen, I would take Phillips, and then trade back into the 2nd as high as I could and grab a lineman.

There will be options in the 3rd too. Spencer Brown, Walker Little, and James Hudson. Some interesting options in 4 or 5 with D'Ante Smith and Josh Ball.

Walker Little could be the steal of the draft at the top of the 3rd round.