Yeah, I don't have anything to actually put in here, I just saw the "Carson Picks His Horse" thread and briefly misread it as "Carl Pickens His Horse". I was quite confused as to what Carl Pickens was doing with a horse before I re-read it properly.

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So how about this question instead. Would Carl Pickens be a Hall of Famer if he had played for another team/a different era?

His QBs were washed up Boomer, Klingler, Blake, O'Donnell, and a little bit of Akili.

Even with the 90s Bengals, he was able to go to 2 Pro Bowls, had 4 1,000+ yard seasons, 3 seasons of 10+ TDs including leading the league in '95 with 17 TDs. This despite being on a Bengals team that never had a winning season in the 8 seasons he was there (and won 5 or less games in 5 of the 8 seasons he was there).

We know being on really bad teams shortens careers, it limits attention/awards, and the QBing/supporting cast isn't really there. So do you think he would have been a guy like Corey Dillon who could have a chance at the HoF if he played for another team?

Sure. Players worse than Carl Pickens are in the Hall of Fame on the strength of their team's success. It says little about Carl Pickens and more about how utterly useless the HOF is. It proves nothing about any player, and it doesn't reflect any remotely balanced assessment of talent, production, or even "fame".

I think he would have. This applies to so many NFL players.

Had Tom Brady played for another team he may have been a failure if his line was poorly constructed.

Pickens was as talented as any elite player in his era.
Good golly Johnny Majors moved him from defensive back to WR I think his sophmore
Season at UT. He was all SEC or made the all freshmen team his freshman year.
Dale Carter was in that secondary.
Pickens was 6'2 but played like he was 6'8. World class sprinter speed

He played in time when CBers were allowed to get handsey and physical.
At times he could take over a game and he had a special ability to find the endzone
Teams knew him Scott or McGee were the only weapons on.offense.
The Bengals lacked that bellcow RB to keep.defenses honest.
He was a HOF talent

Maybe, but just like Collinsworth, Pickens' prime was fairly short.

And just like Collinsworth, injuries were to blame (IIRC).

HOF guys need studly primes and longevity. Unless they play for the Steelers or some legacy team.

(04-25-2021, 06:54 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yeah, I don't have anything to actually put in here, I just saw the "Carson Picks His Horse" thread and briefly misread it as "Carl Pickens His Horse". I was quite confused as to what Carl Pickens was doing with a horse before I re-read it properly.

- - - - - - -
So how about this question instead. Would Carl Pickens be a Hall of Famer if he had played for another team/a different era?

His QBs were washed up Boomer, Klingler, Blake, O'Donnell, and a little bit of Akili.

Even with the 90s Bengals, he was able to go to 2 Pro Bowls, had 4 1,000+ yard seasons, 3 seasons of 10+ TDs including leading the league in '95 with 17 TDs. This despite being on a Bengals team that never had a winning season in the 8 seasons he was there (and won 5 or less games in 5 of the 8 seasons he was there).

We know being on really bad teams shortens careers, it limits attention/awards, and the QBing/supporting cast isn't really there. So do you think he would have been a guy like Corey Dillon who could have a chance at the HoF if he played for another team?

Hard to say he wouldn't with what he did on the shit show team he played on. 

(04-25-2021, 07:03 PM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: Sure. Players worse than Carl Pickens are in the Hall of Fame on the strength of their team's success. It says little about Carl Pickens and more about how utterly useless the HOF is. It proves nothing about any player, and it doesn't reflect any remotely balanced assessment of talent, production, or even "fame".

#weirdtake

(04-25-2021, 06:54 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:  I was quite confused as to what Carl Pickens was doing with a horse before I re-read it properly.

Back in the day there was a good bit of discussion among Bengal fans about Carl snd "the horse he rode in on".

Carl Pickens IMO was our 2nd best WR in the history of the franchise.

I think would have had a decent shot at the HOF had he been paired with a QB like Kelly, Favre, Young, etc. instead of Klingler, Blake and O'Donnell.
His attitude would've probably been a little better if he could've been on a winner just once. If it weren't for Pickens and his mouth, who knows where this team would be today? He kinda got the ball rolling for better or worse.

Unlike Dillon, by the time he got out, his body was used up and it was too late.

(04-26-2021, 11:30 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Carl Pickens IMO was our 2nd best WR in the history of the franchise.

Are you hating on Chad or AJ?

(04-26-2021, 01:20 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: I think would have had a decent shot at the HOF had he been paired with a QB like Kelly, Favre, Young, etc. instead of Klingler, Blake and O'Donnell.
His attitude would've probably been a little better if he could've been on a winner just once.  If it weren't for Pickens and his mouth, who knows where this team would be today?  He kinda got the ball rolling for better or worse.

Unlike Dillon, by the time he got out, his body was used up and it was too late.

Klingler and O'Donnell, sure. But Blake didn't hold Pickens back at all. Probably helped him make a name with all those great deep balls.

(04-26-2021, 01:23 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Klingler and O'Donnell, sure. But Blake didn't hold Pickens back at all. Probably helped him make a name with all those great deep balls.

Blake was better than he was given credit for.
In the two seasons he played all 16 games, he had a 15-17 record.
They were 11th in passing yards, 4th in passing TDs in 1995.
In 1996, they were 12th in passing yards, 7th in passing TDs.

I think he would have had more wins had they not been in the bottom third of the league for defense.

I recall Carl Pickens being pretty good in NFL Blitz 99, so there is that.

(04-26-2021, 01:21 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Are you hating on Chad or AJ?

Not one bit.  AJ is my favorite WR followed closely by Chad.  I don't think there's much of a gap between the 3.

But, man, look a what he did on some terrible teams.

Offensive rookie of the year
Led the NFL in TD catches - 1995
2x Pro-Bowl (when it meant something)
2x 2nd team All-Pro

The guy was just damn good.  I really wonder what he would have been like on a legit playoff caliber team in his prime.

(04-26-2021, 02:11 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Blake was better than he was given credit for.
In the two seasons he played all 16 games, he had a 15-17 record.
They were 11th in passing yards, 4th in passing TDs in 1995.
In 1996, they were 12th in passing yards, 7th in passing TDs.

I think he would have had more wins had they not been in the bottom third of the league for defense.

No doubt. Of course I'm biased though.

I remember a game where Blake threw for 3 TDs (0 picks) and led us to a 31-13 lead against the Steelers.

We lost 31-49.  

Our defense gave up 30+ points in 20 of Blake's 66 starts (30.3%).

The Bengals were 19-15 in Blake's starts when they held opponents to 25 points or less. Useless stat of the day.

(04-26-2021, 02:25 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Not one bit.  AJ is my favorite WR followed closely by Chad.  I don't think there's much of a gap between the 3.

But, man, look a what he did on some terrible teams.

Offensive rookie of the year
Led the NFL in TD catches - 1995
2x Pro-Bowl (when it meant something)
2x 2nd team All-Pro

The guy was just damn good.  I really wonder what he would have been like on a legit playoff caliber team in his prime.

At his pinnacle, I'd put Pick with those 2 guys.

His pinnacle just didn't last long though. Possibly due to shifting between QB's.

That ROY award was kinda weak though. It was just a bad year for rookies, because Pick didn't do much.

(04-26-2021, 02:44 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: No doubt. Of course I'm biased though.

I remember a game where Blake threw for 3 TDs (0 picks) and led us to a 31-13 lead against the Steelers.

We lost 31-49.  

Our defense gave up 30+ points in 20 of Blake's 66 starts (30.3%).

The Bengals were 19-15 in Blake's starts when they held opponents to 25 points or less. Useless stat of the day.

Ya know, this is kind of my fear with the current Bengals team.
Even if they start putting up 25-30 pts a game with a better offense, I could see the team still having a less than satisfactory record because the defense isn't going to be good. But that's my assumption because I have no faith in Lou Anarumo, regardless of what players he puts out there.

(04-26-2021, 02:59 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Ya know, this is kind of my fear with the current Bengals team.
Even if they start putting up 25-30 pts a game with a better offense, I could see the team still having a less than satisfactory record because the defense isn't going to be good. But that's my assumption because I have no faith in Lou Anarumo, regardless of what players he puts out there.

Right there with ya buddy. IMO, Lou is the weakest link on the staff...and I'm not a fan of Zac at this point.

We've had some really good players look bad under Lou, and obviously our D gives up a ton of points with little pressure.

(04-25-2021, 09:01 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Maybe, but just like Collinsworth, Pickens' prime was fairly short.

This

Best three year stretch in Picken's career ('94-'96) he averaged 90 receptions, 1180 yds and 13.3 tds

Bets three year stretch in Green's career ('11-'13) he averaged 87 receptions, 1278 yds, and 9.7 tds.

But Pickens was also and exceptional return man.  he still holds the record fopr longest punt return in Bengal history (95 yds)

Pickens played both ways his freshman year at UT.  He only played half a season on defense but led the team in interceptions and was the Defensive MVP of the Cotton Bowl.  And that was for a team that finished #5 in the final AP poll.  In college he scored tds on receptions, punt returns, kick returns, and interception returns.