(05-03-2021, 04:50 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: If we had drafted Caleb Farley I would be upset as well, because it is a risk we didn't need to take.  Don't we already have enough injury concerns on the OL?

Apparently you think so but I do not find Carman to be a concern at all. Science seems to be on my side. Not to mention it is the only real injury he has had while at Clemson. It would appear that you are attempting to sensationalize the situation.

(05-03-2021, 04:41 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Saying we didn’t prioritize the OL is nonsense.

I don't really agree with the Chiefs on that list. Improved? Maybe...Second most improved no they lost 2 top NFL tackles. They are going to replace one with a second year 3rd rounder Lucas Niang that sat out in 2020 and traded for Orlando Brown who is coming from a heavy gap scheme offense that was a heavy run team to a zone run game that is heavy pass.

(05-03-2021, 04:48 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You would have a very valid point, if we were talking about the #5 selection, on the opening night of the draft.  As you can clearly see from the quote you posted, I said nothing about "celebrating every pick"..  

The only cons on Carman is getting beat by speed rushers he is moving to guard voiding any cons against him. We dropped back still got the guy we was targeting and 2 extra 4th round picks. 

(05-03-2021, 05:06 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: The only cons on Carman is getting beat by speed rushers he is moving to guard voiding any cons against him. We dropped back still got the guy we was targeting and 2 extra 4th round picks. 

I think he was the original target before all of the other top OL fell to the second round which was unexpected.  I think had they stayed at that spot they would have drafted someone else.  I think he was more of a fall back worse case scenario plan.

(05-03-2021, 05:05 PM)Synric Wrote: I don't really agree with the Chiefs on that list. Improved? Maybe...Second most improved no they lost 2 top NFL tackles. They are going to replace one with a second year 3rd rounder Lucas Niang that sat out in 2020 and traded for Orlando Brown who is coming from a heavy gap scheme offense that was a heavy run team to a zone run game that is heavy pass.

They also brought in Joe Thuney in FA, and drafted Creed Humphrey and Trey Smith.

(05-03-2021, 05:06 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: The only cons on Carman is getting beat by speed rushers he is moving to guard voiding any cons against him. We dropped back still got the guy we was targeting and 2 extra 4th round picks. 

Whatever you say, Bong..

Quote:Overview
Carman might be able to offer emergency tackle value at the next level but he is better-suited for a move inside to guard. Regardless of position, he needs to improve placement and sustain with his hands to help stay connected as a blocker. He has enough pop to handle man-blocking duties inside and has adequate athleticism to go with his wide frame to help improve leaky interior pass protection. His footwork creates unorthodox fits into the block and that will need to be corrected or NFL defensive tackles will send him crashing to the ground. His lunging, lingering punch can be tightened up with more work so that he lands his heavy hands without worrying about being countered by hand-fighters. Carman has starting potential as a guard with emergency value at right tackle.

Strengths

• Diversified pass protection approach in 2020.
• Willing to set out on top of rushers early in rep.
• Throws hands quickly, looking for early advantage.
• Makes opponents feel his heavy hands.
• Effective use of snatch-and-trap technique.
• Clear eyes see exotic rush packages and twists.
• Enough recovery athleticism to work rusher past pocket.
• Generates good deal of push when he centers up on the block.
• Understands leverage to widen edge defenders on kick-outs.
• Very good timing on combos up to linebackers.
• Adequate reactive agility to adjust in space.
• Upper-body power to protect his edges.
  

Weaknesses

• High hands cause him to slide up and off the block.
• Quicker hand resets would improve sustain.
• Needs to bring feet with him into down blocks.
• Struggles finding his way to back-side block.
• Benefited from shallow drop points from his quarterback.
• Lunges, leaving hands extended for rushers to swipe and chop.
• Doesn't clamp in with hands to control rusher.
• Could struggle with edge speed and inside counters at tackle.
• Had weight management and accountability issues early in his career.
  

(05-03-2021, 05:05 PM)Synric Wrote: I don't really agree with the Chiefs on that list. Improved? Maybe...Second most improved no they lost 2 top NFL tackles. They are going to replace one with a second year 3rd rounder Lucas Niang that sat out in 2020 and traded for Orlando Brown who is coming from a heavy gap scheme offense that was a heavy run team to a zone run game that is heavy pass.

I think improved is not correct; especially if you go by PFF grades (The site that produced the list)

(05-03-2021, 05:12 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: I think he was the original target before all of the other top OL fell to the second round which was unexpected.  I think had they stayed at that spot they would have drafted someone else.  I think he was more of a fall back worse case scenario plan.

I think all the guys dropping out of the first just opened up the chance to trade down and get more picks and still get what we wanted. We needed a guard more then a tackle. Tackles are higher value so more likely to go off the board before guards. So it was a safe bet to trade down and still get your guard since some tackles fell into the second round. 

(05-03-2021, 04:55 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That may indeed have been the reality, but certainly not the feel I got from reading the article.  The team has (seemingly) went to some efforts in recent years to downplay Mike B's current role in operations.  Now, why would the team allow SI to produce an article with the appearance that the team President was looking to a former employee for draft input?  Seems to me that if it were really Duke Tobin and Frank Pollack wanting Alexander's insights, the article would have reflected such.

I think you're reading to much into this brother. If you look at what Paul said, it sounds like either he just contacted Mike and offered input on the linemen he had worked with, or they reached out to Paul and he chose to talk to Mike directly - 'I go right to the top'. Either way, they ended up getting input from both Paul and Willie...both guys had worked with Carman personally, but in Duke's case, he reached out to Willie.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/willie-anderson-gives-stamp-of-approval-on-second-round-pick-jackson-carman

(05-03-2021, 05:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Whatever you say, Bong..

Most of those weaknesses go out the window at guard. Lunges you won't lunge much at guard.

Edges rushers and inside counters at tackle void.

Weight management...You want big bodies at guard.

Struggle finding he way to backside block. Voided at guard.

Needs to bring feet with him in down blocks. I heard he has choppy feet bad for tackles but its good for guards. That is why most people had him a prospect for a move to guard.

The rest is hand issues coach him up.

(05-03-2021, 05:26 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I think you're reading to much into this brother. If you look at what Paul said, it sounds like either he just contacted Mike and offered input on the linemen he had worked with, or they reached out to Paul and he chose to talk to Mike directly - 'I go right to the top'. Either way, they ended up getting input from both Paul and Willie...both guys had worked with Carman personally, but in Duke's case, he reached out to Willie.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/willie-anderson-gives-stamp-of-approval-on-second-round-pick-jackson-carman

I'm sure the Bengals also talked to Duke Manyweather, Dabo Sweeny, and Robbie Caldwell. They might have even called his High School Coach in Fairfield lol.

(05-03-2021, 05:26 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I think you're reading to much into this brother. If you look at what Paul said, it sounds like either he just contacted Mike and offered input on the linemen he had worked with, or they reached out to Paul and he chose to talk to Mike directly - 'I go right to the top'. Either way, they ended up getting input from both Paul and Willie...both guys had worked with Carman personally, but in Duke's case, he reached out to Willie.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/willie-anderson-gives-stamp-of-approval-on-second-round-pick-jackson-carman

With all the reaching out to Willie stuff, wish they would reach out to him with some sort of job offer.

Maybe Willie turns them down to keep doing his own thing, but it would be nice to see him as an assistant offensive line coach.

(05-03-2021, 05:37 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: With all the reaching out to Willie stuff, wish they would reach out to him with some sort of job offer.

Maybe Willie turns them down to keep doing his own thing, but it would be nice to see him as an assistant offensive line coach.

He would absolutely turn them down. He’s got a great gig doing his own thing. No travel, no working for someone else, etc. No idea what an assistant OL coach makes, but I bet he makes more money on his own as well.

(05-03-2021, 05:37 PM)Synric Wrote: I'm sure the Bengals also talked to Duke Manyweather, Dabo Sweeny, and Robbie Caldwell. They might have even called his High School Coach in Fairfield lol.

Yep. I guess people are just having an issue with the fact that Mike and Paul had a discussion about Carman.

(05-03-2021, 04:10 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The rumors started hours before round 2 began that the Bengals were targeting Carman, and SI was saying Carman would go higher than previously expected. I don't think there's any doubt that Carman was the guy at this point.

I completely agree. He was definitely our pick.

I also believe, though I can't confirm with any certainty. That if we had got Kenny Golladay, Penei Sewell would of been the pick.

The only glaring flaw at all for Joe Burrow, last year, was the deep ball. He could never seem to get in a rhythm with anybody going deep. 

Now it was probably 65% offensive lineman and 35% our WR's not having the ability to get consistent separation on deep routes. Move the percentage as you all see fit.

But it seems the Bengals brass wanted to fix both. So, I feel Chase and Carman were plan B. I feel Chase is better than Golladay. Hopefully time proves them right on Carman.

Honestly, Jax has the ability to play all 5 positions if needed https://t.co/MpQyyS5pvE

— Duke Manyweather (@BigDuke50) May 3, 2021

(05-03-2021, 05:34 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Most of those weaknesses go out the window at guard. Lunges you won't lunge much at guard.

Edges rushers and inside counters at tackle void.

Weight management...You want big bodies at guard.

Struggle finding he way to backside block. Voided at guard.

Needs to bring feet with him in down blocks. I heard he has choppy feet bad for tackles but its good for guards. That is why most people had him a prospect for a move to guard.

The rest is hand issues coach him up.

Ok bro, whatever you say.  I guess we'll see how it turns out..

(05-03-2021, 07:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Ok bro, whatever you say.  I guess we'll see how it turns out..

Yeah it is wait and see with rookies every year. They are Bengals and we are Bengals fans hope for the best. Educated guesses so it is a roll of the dice.

I had to do a double take on the title of this post.... At first I thought it was "Perhaps Mike Brown isn't so semi-retar...."

(05-03-2021, 03:39 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: There is plenty of reasons to ***** about the draft, they didn't make OL the priority.  If Burrow gets hurt this year again I will blame them.

They spent 2nd, 4th, & 6th round on O linemen. WTF else do they need to do to prove it's a priority?