Isn't Alexander responsible for Eric Ghiaciuc also, he was probably the worst center I have ever seen and he started for the Bengals for like 2 years. I think he hit on 2 sure thing OL, but overall he did a crappy job drafting assuming he is the one grading them.

(05-04-2021, 12:36 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: Ok get back to me after the season we will see who was right.

So you honestly cannot see the difference between a Ja'Marr Chase and some lower tier "speedy" receiver?

(05-04-2021, 02:21 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: Isn't Alexander responsible for Eric Ghiaciuc also, he was probably the worst center I have ever seen and he started for the Bengals for like 2 years.  I think he hit on 2 sure thing OL, but overall he did a crappy job drafting assuming he is the one grading them.

At that point i think alexander just had to work with what they gave him

(05-04-2021, 02:44 PM)OSUfan Wrote: So you honestly cannot see the difference between a Ja'Marr Chase and some lower tier "speedy" receiver?

I would rather just have some speedy receiver to go with our other 2 pro bowl type receivers and a great OL.

(05-04-2021, 03:11 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: I would rather just have some speedy receiver to go with our other 2 pro bowl type receivers and a great OL.

So which receiver in this draft did you want that ran under a 4.38? Because the elite receiver that can out physical and run the entire route tree while having elite speed obviously does not strike your fancy.

(05-04-2021, 03:13 PM)OSUfan Wrote: So which receiver in this draft did you want that ran under a 4.38? Because the elite receiver that can out physical and run the entire route tree while having elite speed obviously does not strike your fancy.

There are plenty of receivers that run 4.4 that is not that uncommon.  I don't think there was a combine this year so I have no idea what all the receivers in the draft run.

(05-04-2021, 03:11 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: I would rather just have some speedy receiver to go with our other 2 pro bowl type receivers and a great OL.

That's why we're glad you're not making draft picks for the Bengals. Chase was absolutely the right choice for the Bengals.

(05-04-2021, 03:21 PM)Beaker Wrote: That's why we're glad you're not making draft picks for the Bengals. Chase was absolutely the right choice for the Bengals.

Yeah wake me up when we make the playoffs with this OL.

(05-04-2021, 03:18 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: There are plenty of receivers that run 4.4 that is not that uncommon.  I don't think there was a combine this year so I have no idea what all the receivers in the draft run.

Virtually everyone of them ran at their pro days. Who do you wish to know about and I can get you the info. Yet you still have not answered the question. Which receiver that in this draft do you believe would have helped this team more than Ja'Marr Chase.

I was in the camp of draft O line but I refuses to discredit the selection of a player the caliber of Chase. However, if they were going O line I would have preferred Slater at 5 as I witnessed him playing against far more physical fronts than Sewell every imagined facing not to mention holding the 2020 Defensive Rookie of the year in check.

(05-04-2021, 03:11 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: I would rather just have some speedy receiver to go with our other 2 pro bowl type receivers and a great OL.

You are complaining that they did not draft Sewell and you continue to relate back to the injury to Burrow. Not sure if you watch the team or not but the player that rolled on him was being blocked by the Jordan the OG and the hit from the opposing side came because of the RT. Both of those positions were addressed. So get more confused by your anger with their first round selection.

(05-04-2021, 04:04 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: Yeah wake me up when we make the playoffs with this OL.

I'll be expecting Sewell to be the sole reason the Lions make the playoffs this season.

(05-04-2021, 04:27 PM)Beaker Wrote: I'll be expecting Sewell to be the sole reason the Lions make the playoffs this season.

What happens if Goff suffers an injury? It's all on Sewell, right?

(05-04-2021, 04:17 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Virtually everyone of them ran at their pro days. Who do you wish to know about and I can get you the info. Yet you still have not answered the question. Which receiver that in this draft do you believe would have helped this team more than Ja'Marr Chase.

I was in the camp of draft O line but I refuses to discredit the selection of a player the caliber of Chase. However, if they were going O line I would have preferred Slater at 5 as I witnessed him playing against far more physical fronts than Sewell every imagined facing not to mention holding the 2020 Defensive Rookie of the year in check.

Slater vs Chase young the other year told me all I needed to know about Slater. Dudes a beast, can’t argue with people who wanted him over Sewell. If we were targeting OL in round one I would have tried to trade down to 7-11 and grab either one of those guys instead of staying at 5

(05-04-2021, 04:04 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: Yeah wake me up when we make the playoffs with this OL.

This team has just as much of a chance to make the playoffs with Chase and Carman as it did with Sewell and some other WR.
That chance is slim.

(05-04-2021, 12:03 PM)J24 Wrote: Like I said He was a key part in drafting Two HOF caliber players in Whitworth and Anderson. He is also one of the more respected guys in the offensive line community and helped out a lot of offensive lineman in this year's draft. 

Was it time for him to go in 2018? Yeah probably past time but still the guy did a lot of good for this franchise.

Are we talking about appreciating his contributions 20 years ago? Or about wanting his input on draft decisions in 2021? If it's the latter, his recent track record is terrible, so why should we want him having any input?

(05-04-2021, 12:42 PM)Benton Wrote: I always assumed that was more of a mike brown thing. I think Mike wants those passing attacks, not so much a ground pound.

We've generally been a far more balanced team than people realize. A lot of years we've ranked higher in rush attempts than pass attempts.

2020: 14th in pass attempts, 17th in rush attempts
2019: 6th in pass attempts, 25th in rush attempts
2018: 18th in pass attempts, 26th in rush attempts
2017: 25th in pass attempts, 29th in rush attempts
*2016: 20th in pass attempts, 9th in rush attempts
*2015: 26th in pass attempts, 7th in rush attempts
*2014: 25th in pass attempts, 5th in rush attempts
*2013: 12th in pass attempts, 8th in rush attempts
*2012: 19th in pass attempts, 17th in rush attempts
*2011: 20th in pass attempts, 10th in rush attempts
2010: 5th in pass attempts, 15th in rush attempts
*2009: 27th in pass attempts, 4th in rush attempts
2008: 16th in pass attempts, 21st in rush attempts
2007: 8th in pass attempts, 23rd in rush attempts
2006: 14th in pass attempts, 20th in rush attempts
2005: 12th in pass attempts, 14th in rush attempts
2004: 11th in pass attempts, 18th in rush attempts
*2003: 15th in pass attempts, 10th in rush attempts
2002: 5th in pass attempts, 19th in rush attempts
2001: 2nd in pass attempts, 15th in rush attempts
*2000: 27th in pass attempts, 9th in rush attempts
1999: 12th in pass attempts, 14th in rush attempts
1998: 15th in pass attempts, 24th in rush attempts
*1997: 21st in pass attempts, 13th in rush attempts
1996: 7th in pass attempts, 8th in rush attempts
1995: 12th in pass attempts, 29th in rush attempts
1994: 12th in pass attempts, 25th in rush attempts
1993: 15th in pass attempts, 21st in rush attempts
*1992: 21st in pass attempts, 10th in rush attempts
1991: 9th in pass attempts, 12th in rush attempts

Average ranks during Mike Brown's reign of terror:

15.0 in pass attempts
15.9 in rush attempts

I went overboard here

But I wanted to prove we've been more balanced than people realize. Marvin got us to shift more to the run, but even in years where we passed more, we were still usually running the ball a good bit. In the 90s we were hurt by being behind a lot...so we ran less as a result.

So while we were identifying as a "run first" team, or even being balanced, the run game was vital. Yet Paul produced all those terribly ineffective rush offenses. We ran, but just never ran WELL. Hence why my opinion of PA was always lower than most people.

(05-04-2021, 05:21 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Are we talking about appreciating his contributions 20 years ago? Or about wanting his input on draft decisions in 2021? If it's the latter, his recent track record is terrible, so why should we want him having any input?


We've generally been a far more balanced team than people realize. A lot of years we've ranked higher in rush attempts than pass attempts.

2020: 14th in pass attempts, 17th in rush attempts
2019: 6th in pass attempts, 25th in rush attempts
2018: 18th in pass attempts, 26th in rush attempts
2017: 25th in pass attempts, 29th in rush attempts
*2016: 20th in pass attempts, 9th in rush attempts
*2015: 26th in pass attempts, 7th in rush attempts
*2014: 25th in pass attempts, 5th in rush attempts
*2013: 12th in pass attempts, 8th in rush attempts
*2012: 19th in pass attempts, 17th in rush attempts
*2011: 20th in pass attempts, 10th in rush attempts
2010: 5th in pass attempts, 15th in rush attempts
*2009: 27th in pass attempts, 4th in rush attempts
2008: 16th in pass attempts, 21st in rush attempts
2007: 8th in pass attempts, 23rd in rush attempts
2006: 14th in pass attempts, 20th in rush attempts
2005: 12th in pass attempts, 14th in rush attempts
2004: 11th in pass attempts, 18th in rush attempts
*2003: 15th in pass attempts, 10th in rush attempts
2002: 5th in pass attempts, 19th in rush attempts
2001: 2nd in pass attempts, 15th in rush attempts
*2000: 27th in pass attempts, 9th in rush attempts
1999: 12th in pass attempts, 14th in rush attempts
1998: 15th in pass attempts, 24th in rush attempts
*1997: 21st in pass attempts, 13th in rush attempts
1996: 7th in pass attempts, 8th in rush attempts
1995: 12th in pass attempts, 29th in rush attempts
1994: 12th in pass attempts, 25th in rush attempts
1993: 15th in pass attempts, 21st in rush attempts
*1992: 21st in pass attempts, 10th in rush attempts
1991: 9th in pass attempts, 12th in rush attempts

Average ranks during Mike Brown's reign of terror:

15.0 in pass attempts
15.9 in rush attempts

I went overboard here

But I wanted to prove we've been more balanced than people realize. Marvin got us to shift more to the run, but even in years where we passed more, we were still usually running the ball a good bit. In the 90s we were hurt by being behind a lot...so we ran less as a result.

So while we were identifying as a "run first" team, or even being balanced, the run game was vital. Yet Paul produced all those terribly ineffective rush offenses. We ran, but just never ran WELL. Hence why my opinion of PA was always lower than most people.

Both; why would you not have a conversation with one of the top minds in the game that works with a ton of prospects? As far as I'm concerned the relationship that this organization has with Paul is 100% an advantage for them. 

It's sounds like Mike actually did something smart for once and people are complaining about for no reason.

(05-04-2021, 05:07 PM)ochocincos Wrote: This team has just as much of a chance to make the playoffs with Chase and Carman as it did with Sewell and some other WR.
That chance is slim.

Unfortunately, there is way too much truth in this post.

(05-04-2021, 05:21 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Are we talking about appreciating his contributions 20 years ago? Or about wanting his input on draft decisions in 2021? If it's the latter, his recent track record is terrible, so why should we want him having any input?


We've generally been a far more balanced team than people realize. A lot of years we've ranked higher in rush attempts than pass attempts.

2020: 14th in pass attempts, 17th in rush attempts
2019: 6th in pass attempts, 25th in rush attempts
2018: 18th in pass attempts, 26th in rush attempts
2017: 25th in pass attempts, 29th in rush attempts
*2016: 20th in pass attempts, 9th in rush attempts
*2015: 26th in pass attempts, 7th in rush attempts
*2014: 25th in pass attempts, 5th in rush attempts
*2013: 12th in pass attempts, 8th in rush attempts
*2012: 19th in pass attempts, 17th in rush attempts
*2011: 20th in pass attempts, 10th in rush attempts
2010: 5th in pass attempts, 15th in rush attempts
*2009: 27th in pass attempts, 4th in rush attempts
2008: 16th in pass attempts, 21st in rush attempts
2007: 8th in pass attempts, 23rd in rush attempts
2006: 14th in pass attempts, 20th in rush attempts
2005: 12th in pass attempts, 14th in rush attempts
2004: 11th in pass attempts, 18th in rush attempts
*2003: 15th in pass attempts, 10th in rush attempts
2002: 5th in pass attempts, 19th in rush attempts
2001: 2nd in pass attempts, 15th in rush attempts
*2000: 27th in pass attempts, 9th in rush attempts
1999: 12th in pass attempts, 14th in rush attempts
1998: 15th in pass attempts, 24th in rush attempts
*1997: 21st in pass attempts, 13th in rush attempts
1996: 7th in pass attempts, 8th in rush attempts
1995: 12th in pass attempts, 29th in rush attempts
1994: 12th in pass attempts, 25th in rush attempts
1993: 15th in pass attempts, 21st in rush attempts
*1992: 21st in pass attempts, 10th in rush attempts
1991: 9th in pass attempts, 12th in rush attempts

Average ranks during Mike Brown's reign of terror:

15.0 in pass attempts
15.9 in rush attempts

I went overboard here

But I wanted to prove we've been more balanced than people realize. Marvin got us to shift more to the run, but even in years where we passed more, we were still usually running the ball a good bit. In the 90s we were hurt by being behind a lot...so we ran less as a result.

So while we were identifying as a "run first" team, or even being balanced, the run game was vital. Yet Paul produced all those terribly ineffective rush offenses. We ran, but just never ran WELL. Hence why my opinion of PA was always lower than most people.

I wonder how different that list would look, had the team went in another direction when they hired Marvin Lewis?  For all of our gripes about Lewis over his career, one thing was for certain;  He built the Bengal teams to be classic AFCN, ground and pound offenses with punishing defenses.  He built his teams to compete and win our division. 

(05-04-2021, 04:21 PM)OSUfan Wrote: You are complaining that they did not draft Sewell and you continue to relate back to the injury to Burrow. Not sure if you watch the team or not but the player that rolled on him was being blocked by the Jordan the OG and the hit from the opposing side came because of the RT. Both of those positions were addressed. So get more confused by your anger with their first round selection.

 Having one of the worst offensive lines in football for 4 years in a row can make a person angry.  I don't trust them to draft good late round OL prospects because they do not have a good history doing so.  So the entire draft comes down to Carman in my opinion.  I would love the Carman pick had he just not had back surgery btw.  You all can downplay back injuries all you want but I know quite a bit about it since I experienced it first hand.  I just don't think he will be durable and dependable because of the injury.  He might even make it through this year but I think over 3-4 year period he will miss a significant number of games because of it.

(05-04-2021, 08:17 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote:  Having one of the worst offensive lines in football for 4 years in a row can make a person angry.  I don't trust them to draft good late round OL prospects because they do not have a good history doing so.  So the entire draft comes down to Carman in my opinion.  I would love the Carman pick had he just not had back surgery btw.  You all can downplay back injuries all you want but I know quite a bit about it since I experienced it first hand.  I just don't think he will be durable and dependable because of the injury.  He might even make it through this year but I think over 3-4 year period he will miss a significant number of games because of it.

You can begin to make it out to be more than it is but it just don't make it so. Science is not on your side with this one. Sorry you experienced it but I will venture a guess that you did not experience the same level of treatment for it that these guys are getting today. Below are the facts:

https://www.brainspinesurgery.com/j-j-watt-and-how-herniated-discs-can-reoccur/#:~:text=in%20the%20spine.-,J.J.,surgery%20for%20a%20herniated%20disc.&text=That%20number%20has%20assuredly%20increased%20over%20the%20past%20several%20years.

https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=198616

You also still have not answered which WR in this class was going to help this team even remotely as close to the impact that Chase will have.