With a couple minor exceptions, I think the roster is pretty much in place for the offseason. There's a few burning issues that will either get quickly resolved or become a disaster.

1. State of the O-line. Did the Bengals do enough in the offseason to protect Burrow and upgrade the running game?

Let's hope so. While they mainly stayed put in free agency, they added bodies in the draft. Rieff replaces Hart, so hopefully that's an upgrade. I'm not a fan of PFF, but last year's overall grades between the 2 weren't that much different. I do think Rieff is a far superior player, so I'm counting on a bounce back year from him. I also feel like we have a decent amount of depth at T in case Jonah continues his trend of missing games. I think we can work Adenji, Johnson, Carman, Rieff and Smith around in some fashion to at least get through a rough patch.

For me, the interior line is still a tad worrisome. We added Carman, Smith and Hill in the draft. Odds are that one of them will turn into a decent NFL starter at some point. That being said, we are in a touchy position if something happens to one of the starters. I'm also a little concerned about the C if Hopkins isn't 100% to start the year. Carman should help in the running game and hopefully Hill is healthy at some point.

The biggest move was adding Pollack and he should amplify everyone's performance on th line.

2. TE. I was a little surprised they didn't address this sooner, but it looks to be the weakest position on the team.

3. Pass Rush. Time will tell if swapping Lawson for Trey was the right move. They added a ton of guys to the line in the draft and it should pay off. Hopefully one of the new guys can help immediately on 3rd downs.

4. Health. I still contend that this team would have been 7-9, 8-8 last year had Burrow not gone down and Waynes, Reader and Uzomah stayed healthy. If this team stays healthy, the sky is the limit.


On to the good.

1. This WR group has the potential to be the best in the league, That's not homerism either. Boyd is already one of the best (if not, the best slots in the game), Higgins showed he can be dangerous on the outside. IF Chase plays to half of his potential this year while learning the ropes, this team is going to be very difficult to match up against.

2. I don't think theres any question that we have our QB for years to come.

3. Pollack

One final comment regarding the draft. While they didn't draft the players that I wanted the most (Sewell, Trey Smith, Creed Humphrey), they did draft all the positions that I wanted them to address (IOL, C, WR, Edge). None of us are professional scouts and I am certainly no guru when it comes to player evaluation. We will look back in 3 years and either say "holy crap, this one put us in the elite range" or "damn, we really missed on some of these guys. Only time will tell.

Either way, I feel like we are finally going into an offseason where we have a decent (not good) starter at every position if they are healthy. There truly aren't any glaring holes and that feels very good.

On Bobby Hart’s PFF grade being close to Reiff’s - - that is mostly from his run blocking. Reiff is far better in pass protection.

(05-03-2021, 01:36 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: On Bobby Hart’s PFF grade being close to Reiff’s - - that is mostly from his run blocking. Reiff is far better in pass protection.

Yeah, either way if was a down year for Reiff.  We need to improve the running game in a major way.  

PFF has us as the 4th most improved o-line of the offseason. They're predicting a jump to 'league average' which might not sound great, but would be huge considering where the line has been recently.

(05-03-2021, 01:31 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: With a couple minor exceptions, I think the roster is pretty much in place for the offseason.  There's a few burning issues that will either get quickly resolved or become a disaster.

1.  State of the O-line.  Did the Bengals do enough in the offseason to protect Burrow and upgrade the running game?  

Let's hope so.  While they mainly stayed put in free agency, they added bodies in the draft.  Rieff replaces Hart, so hopefully that's an upgrade.  I'm not a fan of PFF, but last year's overall grades between the 2 weren't that much different.  I do think Rieff is a far superior player, so I'm counting on a bounce back year from him.  I also feel like we have a decent amount of depth at T in case Jonah continues his trend of missing games.  I think we can work Adenji, Johnson, Carman, Rieff and Smith around in some fashion to at least get through a rough patch.

For me, the interior line is still a tad worrisome.  We added Carman, Smith and Hill in the draft.  Odds are that one of them will turn into a decent NFL starter at some point.  That being said, we are in a touchy position if something happens to one of the starters.  I'm also a little concerned about the C if Hopkins isn't 100% to start the year.  Carman should help in the running game and hopefully Hill is healthy at some point.

The biggest move was adding Pollack and he should amplify everyone's performance on th line.

2.  TE.  I was a little surprised they didn't address this sooner, but it looks to be the weakest position on the team.

3.  Pass Rush.  Time will tell if swapping Lawson for Trey was the right move.  They added a ton of guys to the line in the draft and it should pay off.  Hopefully one of the new guys can help immediately on 3rd downs.

4.  Health.  I still contend that this team would have been 7-9, 8-8 last year had Burrow not gone down and Waynes, Reader and Uzomah stayed healthy.  If this team stays healthy, the sky is the limit.


On to the good.

1.  This WR group has the potential to be the best in the league,  That's not homerism either.  Boyd is already one of the best (if not, the best slots in the game), Higgins showed he can be dangerous on the outside.  IF Chase plays to half of his potential this year while learning the ropes, this team is going to be very difficult to match up against.

2.  I don't think theres any question that we have our QB for years to come.

3.  Pollack

One final comment regarding the draft.  While they didn't draft the players that I wanted the most (Sewell, Trey Smith, Creed Humphrey), they did draft all the positions that I wanted them to address (IOL, C, WR, Edge).  None of us are professional scouts and I am certainly no guru when it comes to player evaluation.  We will look back in 3 years and either say "holy crap, this one put us in the elite range" or "damn, we really missed on some of these guys.  Only time will tell.

Either way, I feel like we are finally going into an offseason where we have a decent (not good) starter at every position if they are healthy.  There truly aren't any glaring holes and that feels very good.

Your final comment nailed it to me. The guys we took might not be the guys that some wanted but they are at the positions 
that needed to be drafted and they are the guys Pollack wanted. In the end I will trust him on these picks. But I did really like
Carman, D'Ante Smith and Trey Hill before we drafted them so naturally I liked this Draft better than most.

I watched Reiff last year and have watched him for years, he is light years better than Hart and I wasn't as down on Hart as 
some other people. This is where PFF just doesn't get much stock from me. I see these comparison's where a certain player 
on our own team has near the same scores as much better players.

Ossai falling to us in the 3rd is amazing, really surprised. This guy could be All Pro and not even kidding, playmaker. Also love
the picks of Cameron Sample and Wyatt Hubert. Cameron has great hands and Hubert can be a terror out there. He is really 
good at getting to the QB as his sack numbers show. Our pass rush is much better than last year already with also adding Trey
Hendrickson and Ogunjobi. Getting after the passer is the way to go now a days. Also adding Shelvin helps in stopping the run.

(05-03-2021, 01:41 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: PFF has us as the 4th most improved o-line of the offseason. They're predicting a jump to 'league average' which might not sound great, but would be huge considering where the line has been recently.

It was crazy to expect any more improvement than league average this off-season anyway. I'd be thrilled with just an average offensive line in 2021.

(05-03-2021, 01:41 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: PFF has us as the 4th most improved o-line of the offseason. They're predicting a jump to 'league average' which might not sound great, but would be huge considering where the line has been recently.

Honestly, that’s all Burrow and these weapons should need. We know Mixon can be productive behind even a well below average OL (led the AFC in rushing in 18). But give Joe average OL play and these WR’s should feast.

(05-03-2021, 01:41 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: PFF has us as the 4th most improved o-line of the offseason. They're predicting a jump to 'league average' which might not sound great, but would be huge considering where the line has been recently.

Burrow was far above average with a below average line. Imagine the possibilities with an average line and WRs who can get open...and make the contested catches, which all 3 are really good at.

It all hinges on Reiff and Jackson. If we hit on those two, we're fine. If we whiffed on those two, Burrow's trajectory towards Carson Palmer 2.0 looks likely.

Reiff is a proven commodity especially in the passing game. So is Spain who people keep forgetting was not here at the start of the season and who went out with no practices and played very well. In fact once he and XSF were both out there the interior OL issues were greatly reduced. Really, the OL starters are not the issue - the utter lack of viable depth was. Well we drafted three OL so the odds of having someone like MJ out there again are much reduced.

(05-03-2021, 01:51 PM)Beaker Wrote: Burrow was far above average with a below average line. Imagine the possibilities with an average line and WRs who can get open...and make the contested catches, which all 3 are really good at.

Yep. If the weapons stay healthy and the o-line is at least average...this could turn into a very interesting year...very quickly.

They'll have the most dynamic 'true outside' playmaker in this year's draft, one of best - if not the best - slot receivers in the NFL, and an extremely talented receiver coming off an outstanding rookie season. It also sounds like to are going to get Mixon much more involved in the pass game as well, which is long overdue, IMO. 

Like what they have done. Still time to do more but if players are healthy with what we’ve added in FA and draft we are much better.

So much of their plans hinge on Reiff. If he hits I will feel a lot better about the offseason.
We'll see what happens with Carman, a lot of the picks hinge on him like Reiff. An opinion I trust gave the Bengal's draft an A with their philosophy based on value rather than need which is probably leaving a bad taste in a lot of mouths of Bengals fans. I also think there are still plans for the offseason. Smith hitting is also crucial for this draft.

I also predict Zac will be on a short leash next season because of all the non-Taylor Bengals guys brought in on personnel, at least I think so. I hope. I also hope ZT is just green with a depleted roster (a disastrous combo) and not as bad as we think. I can't believe I'm saying this, especially because I tend to be more of a pessimist about the Bengals, not as much as some of you, though. Perhaps it's just the high from a nice draft. 

(05-03-2021, 03:43 PM)CorpusChristiBengal Wrote: So much of their plans hinge on Reiff. If he hits I will feel a lot better about the offseason.
We'll see what happens with Carman, a lot of the picks hinge on him like Reiff. An opinion I trust gave the Bengal's draft an A with their philosophy based on value rather than need which is probably leaving a bad taste in a lot of mouths of Bengals fans. I also think there are still plans for the offseason. Smith hitting is also crucial for this draft.

I also predict Zac will be on a short leash next season because of all the non-Taylor Bengals guys brought in on personnel, at least I think so. I hope. I also hope ZT is just green with a depleted roster (a disastrous combo) and not as bad as we think. I can't believe I'm saying this, especially because I tend to be more of a pessimist about the Bengals.

Zac is on a short leash right now IMO. We need to get into the Playoffs and win a game this season for me to want to keep 
him around. Reiff only allowed 1 sack and had 1 penalty last year, dude is a crazy upgrade over Hart. Gave up less sacks than
Thuney and Orlando Brown. Carman is a road grader that I bet starts at one of the Guard spots as a rookie. He is just made 
for the Guard position and is a mauler in the run game and putting him at Guard hides his pass blocking problems with speed
rushers. Even then he was a good pass blocker overall in the SEC at LT going against top DE talent like Chase Young and co.

(05-03-2021, 01:41 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: PFF has us as the 4th most improved o-line of the offseason. They're predicting a jump to 'league average' which might not sound great, but would be huge considering where the line has been recently.

Yeah, league average is a huge leap for this team. I hope PFF's prediction holds true.

I'd give the draft a B-. I was at C- because of the back concerns with Carman...but I've reigned that in some. I would have liked to see more done up front, but it wasn't sitting on their hands like last season. 

On paper we replaced our Losses.... time will tell if its better or not.

(05-03-2021, 04:12 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yeah, league average is a huge leap for this team. I hope PFF's prediction holds true.

I'd give the draft a B-. I was at C- because of the back concerns with Carman...but I've reigned that in some. I would have liked to see more done up front, but it wasn't sitting on their hands like last season. 

The back is not a concern from everything I heard, Carman is 100%. An O-line of...

LT - Jonah Williams/D'Ante Smith/Adeniji
LG - Quinton Spain/XSF
C - Hopkins/Trey Hill/Price
RG - Jackson Carman/XSF
RT - Riley Reiff/D'Ante Smith/Adeniji

Sure could be average to above avarage.

I would say we had a ton of holes and we plugged some but not others. Some we fixed completely with high level talent (WR1: Chase). Some we plugged with mid level draft picks (OL/DL/PK: Carman; Ossai, Shelvin, Sample; McPherson). Some we filled with high priced FAs we have not seen play much/any (Waynes, Hendrickson, even Reader). Some with mid-tier FAs (Reiff, Hilton, Awuzie, Ogunjobi). And some lower tier/developmental guys (Smith, Evans, Hill, UDFAs) or bargain FAs (Spain, Apple, Moss, etc).

Some will work out, some won't.

As it stands, my concern areas are:

1) OL depth. We have 5 guys that I think have proven the can play adequate NFL snaps: Williams, Reiff, Hopkins, Spain, & XSF. Hopkins is coming off an ACL tear. Williams and XSF have been injury prone.

If you want to count Carman as #6 (I won't yet), then we have 3 passable OGs. But still no real proven depth at OT. Johnson, Adeniji, and Smith? Yikes, that is scary. I don't mind having 1 developmental guy on the depth chart, but zero proven guys sucks. Price has trouble snapping the ball. Hill is a 6th round pick. And Jordan is the #4 guard, still.

I'd bring in, at min, a vet OT. So out depth would look like:
OT: Williams, Reiff; vet #3.
OG: XSF/Spain, Carman.
C: Hopkins; Price
------------
Let Johnson, Adeniji, and Smith compete for the last OT spot. Let Jordan and Hill compete for the last OG spot.Losers to the PS.
--------------

2. WR depth.

Chase, Higgins, & Boyd look great. Thomas & Tate as WR4 & WR5 is bad. And we do not have a backup slot/PR type to replace Erickson (Lees?).

Those are the biggest two. Also:

3) LB.

We were terrible last year. We let one vet go (Bynes). Looks like we are rolling with L. Wilson, Pratt, Bailey, ADG, & Evans. Other than flashes from Wilson, I don't see much here. I get a 2020 OL "we like our group" vibe here.

4) TE.

CJ coming of an Achilles scares me. Moss and the UDFA Wells don't move the needle much. But at least we have bodies. Sample & Schreck.
--------------

(05-05-2021, 02:41 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I would say we had a ton of holes and we plugged some but not others. Some we fixed completely with high level talent (WR1: Chase).  Some we plugged with mid level draft picks (OL/DL/PK: Carman; Ossai, Shelvin, Sample; McPherson). Some we filled with high priced FAs we have not seen play much/any (Waynes, Hendrickson, even Reader). Some with mid-tier FAs (Reiff, Hilton, Awuzie, Ogunjobi). And some lower tier/developmental guys (Smith, Evans, Hill, UDFAs) or bargain FAs (Spain, Apple, Moss, etc).

Some will work out, some won't.

As it stands, my concern areas are:

1) OL depth. We have 5 guys that I think have proven the can play adequate NFL snaps: Williams, Reiff, Hopkins, Spain, & XSF. Hopkins is coming off an ACL tear. Williams and XSF have been injury prone.

If you want to count Carman as #6 (I won't yet), then we have 3 passable OGs. But still no real proven depth at OT. Johnson, Adeniji, and Smith? Yikes, that is scary. I don't mind having 1 developmental guy on the depth chart, but zero proven guys sucks. Price has trouble snapping the ball. Hill is a 6th round pick. And Jordan is the #4 guard, still.

I'd bring in, at min, a vet OT. So out depth would look like:
OT: Williams, Reiff; vet #3.
OG: XSF/Spain, Carman.
C: Hopkins; Price
------------
Let Johnson, Adeniji, and Smith compete for the last OT spot. Let Jordan and Hill compete for the last OG spot.Losers to the PS.
--------------

2. WR depth.

Chase, Higgins, & Boyd look great. Thomas & Tate as WR4 & WR5 is bad. And we do not have a backup slot/PR type to replace Erickson (Lees?).

Those are the biggest two. Also:

3) LB.

We were terrible last year. We let one vet go (Bynes). Looks like we are rolling with L. Wilson, Pratt, Bailey, ADG, & Evans. Other than flashes from Wilson, I don't see much here. I get a 2020 OL "we like our group" vibe here.

4) TE.

CJ coming of an Achilles scares me. Moss and the UDFA Wells don't move the needle much. But at least we have bodies. Sample & Schreck.
--------------

Sure are acting like Ossai and Carman are just shit aren't you? I also think Reiff and Hilton are top tier at their positions, Reiff
gave up less sacks then Thuney and Orlando Brown last season and had less penalties. Hilton might be the best blitzing Slot 
Corner in the NFL right now.

WR depth is more of a concern to me the more I look at it after seeing our luck with 1st rounders over the years.

(05-03-2021, 01:41 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: PFF has us as the 4th most improved o-line of the offseason. They're predicting a jump to 'league average' which might not sound great, but would be huge considering where the line has been recently.

And as Lapham has recently been saying:  It is all about "No Donkeys".  You can't have one turd on the line or the whole line suffers.  That seems to be the biggest improvement.  Yes, Carman should be a massive upgrade over the turd storm we rolled out there for much of the season at RG, but the floor of the entire line is massively improved when Jordan is on the bench and you have both XSF and Spain competing for the LG spot.  Jonah in year 3 (year two of actually playing) and a seasoned vet in Reiff.  

I am not as worried about center as much.  With Hopkins, he was pretty solid with turds next to him, and Price loves the style of Pollack.  If he has to start a few games, I am not worried at all and I think it would go a long way to helping Price mentally.  He would still likely be the first guard off the bench as well.   From what I understand, it looks like Hopkins will be ready week 1. 

They go from two really questionable players at guard (Jordan and Redmond/Johnson) to XSF/Spain competition at LG and Carman at RG.  Add Reiff, a solid veteran that seems to love Burrow to replace the enigmatic Hart, and you have a line with a much higher floor than a year ago.