(05-08-2021, 07:20 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Strongly disagree with this statement.

Now, there were some great players there (CD, Spikes, Simmons, Smith, the Oline), but there were a ton of scrubs on the 2-14 team he acquired as well. 

But Marvin's first offseason saw a number of great acquisitions via trade, FA, and the draft to set things up for his tenure to succeed.

I agree with your overall point that Marvin didn't have a very good roster. I just want to point out that Spikes left for Buffalo the same off-season that Marvin was named coach. And he had Dillon for a few games before he got hurt, and left in the very next off-season.

Zac Taylor will not be fired and shouldn’t be. He has done exactly what was needed. He has rebuilt this entire roster in 2 years. This is what was needed and what the FO wanted. He has rebuilt the roster into a younger cohesive group who’s ceiling is much higher then the group he replaced. What’s now needed is a healthy roster and a normal training camp for our Young talented QB and team to combine their skills and develop a long term plan which will enable the staff to utilize those skills to shape this team into a winning one. Some fine Bengal players were moved aside in the rebuild but it was time to change the personnel and personality of the team and organization.

If you want to grade ZT on his work to this point I might suggest leaving out wins and losses and focus on the rebuild. This will be the first year you can include win loss record. I give ZT high marks for the rebuild but now it’s time to take the next step and show it on the field. It will be a tough assignment considering 3 playoff teams are in his division. That said I think he has the Bengals moving in right direction. The organization has used the draft and FA to help facilitate the rebuild. I myself am stunned that the ownership has spent the money in FA to help with the rebuild. What we need now is some players to get healthy and a normal trading camp to help in the implementation of the new pieces of the team.

We are in year 1 of the ZT rebuild as it pertains to the win/loss record. It’s time he “show us the money”.

If a miracle occurs and we get to celebrate winning a superbowl this season you can forget the gold statue of Mike Brown on fountain square..It'll be Zac instead. I really doubt that's gonna happen, but I didn't think I'd live half as long as I have so ya just never know.

(05-07-2021, 08:22 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Love your positive outlook. Nothing like wishing for someone to fail. I believe Zac Taylor will have a good deal of success here in Cincinnati. He is not just rebuilding a team but as well rebuilding a culture. I prefer to wish him luck rather than aimlessly hope for his failure.

That's been the motto of Bengals fans forever..If we can't win nobody can including our own..

(05-09-2021, 12:33 AM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: I agree with your overall point that Marvin didn't have a very good roster. I just want to point out that Spikes left for Buffalo the same off-season that Marvin was named coach. And he had Dillon for a few games before he got hurt, and left in the very next off-season.

Yeah but he had an emerging Rudi Johnson at RB.  He's not Dillon but he certainly is worth mentioning.  Dude was a punishing back.

Are we using the "He's technically still a rookie" defense for ZT now?

I think he makes it to next season. But not necessarily because he does good. I just think another unfortunate side effect of Joe Burrows injury is that this year is just trying to get him comfortable again and thru the season healthy. What I don't like about ZT so far is his lack of urgency fixing the issues this team shows in the beginning of seasons. 1st year we couldn't run the ball until week 8 and 2nd year Burrow is getting killed and we don't change playcalling to help him out until he gets broke. So I'd like to see early season wins and or adjustments.

The Bengals don’t traditionally fire coaches until even a blind squirrel who can’t find a nut can see it’s time to fire the coach. Therefore, they’ll probably extended him year to year for two to three consecutive years before they fire him.

Said this was day 1 with hire, with state of team he will be given 3 years now I would say if we struggle 1/2 to say a 2-6 start , he might be let go but I formally expect the Bengals to give him 2 years of personal changes on roster to make a fair assessment, we have shown the history of coaches that started bad or slow and ended fine.

(05-09-2021, 11:06 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Said this was day 1 with hire, with state of team he will be given 3 years now I would say if we struggle 1/2 to say a 2-6 start , he might be let go but I formally expect the Bengals to give him 2 years of personal changes on roster to make a fair assessment,  we have shown the history of coaches that started bad or slow and ended fine.

Well there's a difference between bad and slow start and historic ineptitude. If I remember correctly, I saw a tweet showing that Taylor has the worst winning % of any hc for their 1st 2 years. Can he turn it around, maybe. Anything is possible, but history is not on his side. 

A quick edit, maybe he isn't the worst in NFL history any more but he's up there. I couldn't find the tweet I was looking for.

(05-09-2021, 10:02 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Are we using the "He's technically still a rookie" defense for ZT now?

(05-09-2021, 08:41 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Yeah but he had an emerging Rudy Johnson at RB.  He's not Dillon but he certainly is worth mentioning.  Dude was a punishing back.

Fair enough, I didn't mention him because it wasn't mentioned in the post I replied to.

(05-09-2021, 12:02 PM)MasonDT70 Wrote: Well there's a difference between bad and slow start and historic ineptitude. If I remember correctly, I saw a tweet showing that Taylor has the worst winning % of any hc for their 1st 2 years. Can he turn it around, maybe. Anything is possible, but history is not on his side. 

A quick edit, maybe he isn't the worst in NFL history any more but he's up there. I couldn't find the tweet I was looking for.

I remember seeing the post if Zac doesn't win 7 games this season then he'll be worse than Shula.  That is enough.

The Brown family is too "right" about their decisions to cut Zac loose before the end of the season. They may even bring him back for a 4th year of failure, which is enough cause many to vomit.

(05-08-2021, 12:05 PM)Nately120 Wrote: So Why did they fire Turner?  Why didn't all these excuses protect him?

Turner has line coach experience does he not? He has been the O line coach in other places has he not? Every O line stat regressed since he has been here correct? I did not post anything as an excuse rather as an objective way to view the situation. Sure there has been things for Taylor to learn being new to the job but to truly put his stamp on his team will take time.

I would also say that it was Taylor that opted to fire Turner which is fine as he opted to hire Turner.

(05-09-2021, 10:02 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Are we using the "He's technically still a rookie" defense for ZT now?

Those close losses though...

Joe’s injury last year gave Zac until 2022. Last year blame on the injury. This year Joe is recovering and will not be 100%. So he is here until end of 2022. Also the bengals don’t fire anyone they will owe money to.

(05-09-2021, 03:23 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Turner has line coach experience does he not? He has been the O line coach in other places has he not? Every O line stat regressed since he has been here correct? I did not post anything as an excuse rather as an objective way to view the situation. Sure there has been things for Taylor to learn being new to the job but to truly put his stamp on his team will take time.

I would also say that it was Taylor that opted to fire Turner which is fine as he opted to hire Turner.

Other new HCs have had instant success in Cleveland, Chicago, SF, LA, MIA and so on.  ZT and Adam Gase come to mind as guys who apparently had to stink for years to learn on the job.  

ZT has to make the playoffs or I've had my fill of him.  Any nfl roster is too important to serve as training wheels...but we actually look like we should be good right now. 

Also, have we had a HC who had a rough year or two before getting better?  Was Sam Wyche the most recent one? 

(05-09-2021, 09:45 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Also, have we had a HC who had a rough year or two before getting better?  Was Sam Wyche the most recent one? 

Sam Wyche was before modern free agency. In his day every free agent was basically a restricted/franchised free agent. Teams had right of first refusal AND the team that signed the player would have to give a draft pick to the team they signed them from.

Whole lot harder to do a quick turnaround back then because of it.

(05-09-2021, 12:33 AM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: I agree with your overall point that Marvin didn't have a very good roster. I just want to point out that Spikes left for Buffalo the same off-season that Marvin was named coach. And he had Dillon for a few games before he got hurt, and left in the very next off-season.

The 2003 Bengals were pretty stacked with young ascending offensive talent. Willie, Levi, Braham, Chad, Housh, Warrick, Rudi, CD, etc.

The 2019 Bengals were littered with players at the end of their careers.

That doesn't mean Zac has an excuse for going 6-25-1...which is historically awful. But Marv was certainly given the better stitch.

In short, Marv was a solid coach who was given a solid roster (offensively). Zac is a bad coach who was given a deceptively bad roster. You add those two and you get 6-25-1.