Neither...

The Bengals were coming off of a season of missed tackles and poor run defense overall. Waynes was part of the agenda of pouring money into that specific need with Reader, Bell and Bynes. They front loaded his deal out of need short term and long term with WJIII in a contract year.

Neither is a #1 guy, those are rare. Reality is they don't have a #1 but manufactured a solid secondary. You have possibly the top FS and Nickle in the game. Awuzie is a buy low possible bargain coming off a weird year. Bell plays his role well, Phillips is a fringe starter as your dimeback and Wilson and Allen are descent safeties.

I actually respect how they built the secondary thought the Waynes move was suspect even pre injury. They need the pass rush to improve, LB's to grow and help put the DB's in position to make plays.

(05-23-2021, 12:52 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Hand up, I have not spent a lot of time watching Trae Waynes play.  I've maybe seen 4 or 5 Vikings games while he played there, and it's not like I was superfocused on the DB's.  And even if I was, it was probably Xavier Rhodes.

All this said, I chose Waynes.  I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt right now.  I thought William Jackson was a terribly overrated and I couldn't be happier that we didn't come anywhere near matching what he just got paid.

First response pretty much nailed it for me, but I still answered WJIII since I have seen him play and at least he is a known commodity.  Waynes sure had a sketchy start to being a Bengal and much is expected of him this year.  Worries me being so long without playing.  Have no idea what we are getting and I fear he is a complete dud, like a Sims.

(05-24-2021, 08:07 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: First response pretty much nailed it for me, but I still answered WJIII since I have seen him play and at least he is a known commodity.  Waynes sure had a sketchy start to being a Bengal and much is expected of him this year.  Worries me being so long without playing.  Have no idea what we are getting and I fear he is a complete dud, like a Sims.

I think Waynes is a known commodity. He has played 5 years in the NFL, and Zimmer picked up his 5th year option. Yeah, he missed a year, but he's a solid vet and should come in 100%. He may not be a world beater, but I think he will be every bit as good as WJ3 and will be a better fit in Lou's system.

I voted WJ3 because I covet coverage ability most, and WJ3 is better in coverage than Waynes.
With that said, I do think Waynes will have added value as a tackler and playing run defense.
To me, Waynes was always a CB2 whereas I thought WJ3 was a mid-level CB1.

(05-24-2021, 09:27 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I think Waynes is a known commodity. He has played 5 years in the NFL, and Zimmer picked up his 5th year option. Yeah, he missed a year, but he's a solid vet and should come in 100%. He may not be a world beater, but I think he will be every bit as good as WJ3 and will be a better fit in Lou's system.

I guess I just need to see it.  I understood the initial signing and message it may or may not have sent to WJII (always felt like he didn't want to be here and his parting shot confirmed that) but with his outspoken frustration about not being able to sign the contract and his subsequent (very fishy) immediate injury, I just have my reservations.

Darius Phillips is one of the most inconsistent players I have ever witnessed.  Guy looks like a world beater one minute and LeShawn Sims the next (that was a shot).  I can't help but think the Bengals have also kind of given up on him, but at the very least he could provide quality depth.  

I went with Waynes.

If I'm going to have to choose between 2 CBs where neither of them get a lot of INTs, give me the one who tackles better.

WJIII will go from people saying letting him walk to why did they let him go, the front office can't spot talent.

(05-24-2021, 12:33 PM)TJHoushmandzadehs Shiny Shoes Wrote: WJIII will go from people saying letting him walk to why did they let him go, the front office can't spot talent.

I expect him to look better playing behind a D line not made of tomato cans, but he didn't wanna be here, and was gonna command a lot of money. I have very low expectations for Waynes too (he'll be the fan base's whipping boy... Book it), but it is what it is. I can smell a CB with an early pick next year.

I think wj3 is a better corner and will have a better career but here in Cincinnati I think Wayne’s is better. William Jackson did not want to be here and we saw his play decline with that narrative. Wayne’s imo doesn’t share that feeling is paid handsomely and probably has a lot to prove so as a bengals fan I’m all for the Wayne’s signing.

WJ111 gave us 3 ints in 59 games.

Waynes is at 7 ints in 74 games.

(05-24-2021, 01:20 PM)Goalpost Wrote: WJ111 gave us 3 ints in 59 games.

Waynes is at 7 ints in 74 games.

Passes Defended in NFL career:
WJ3 (59 games) - 41
Waynes (74 games) - 42

WJ3 passer rating allowed in 2020 - 88.2
WJ3 catch rate allowed - 51.4%

Waynes passer rating allowed in 2019 - 107.9
Waynes catch rate allowed - 74.0%

WJ3 is better in coverage than Waynes, he just hasn't been a ball hawk.

(05-24-2021, 11:41 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I guess I just need to see it.  I understood the initial signing and message it may or may not have sent to WJII (always felt like he didn't want to be here and his parting shot confirmed that) but with his outspoken frustration about not being able to sign the contract and his subsequent (very fishy) immediate injury, I just have my reservations.

Darius Phillips is one of the most inconsistent players I have ever witnessed.  Guy looks like a world beater one minute and LeShawn Sims the next (that was a shot).  I can't help but think the Bengals have also kind of given up on him, but at the very least he could provide quality depth.  

Oh yeah, I'm still 50-50 on whether Waynes was already injured when he signed..... but, that said he should have no excuse not to be 100% now.

Add me to those who hasn't really watched him much. On paper I like him better though. He's just more well rounded. The guy has/had speed, he can tackle...I think I just heard that consistency was the issue. That can be coached/worked on. He has the tools.

Tackling was a huge issue at the end of Marvin's tenure and the beginning of Zac's. So I get why we signed him.

...and I'm back to being a homer again.

overrall im for keeping players you develop over bringing in replacements if they are around the same level.... So i would have kept WJIII now that being said the player has to want to stay as well... And for a Drafting team we havent been keeping alot guys past the 1st contract lately. weather thats a grass is greener or very bad drafting thing im not sure.. AS we havent exactly been replacing them with better talent when they leave.

(05-24-2021, 12:37 PM)jason Wrote: I expect him to look better playing behind a D line not made of tomato cans, but he didn't wanna be here, and was gonna command a lot of money. I have very low expectations for Waynes too (he'll be the fan base's whipping boy... Book it), but it is what it is. I can smell a CB with an early pick next year.

The 2018 & 2019 line with Atkins/Dunlap/Hubbard/Billings sure wasn't tomato cans. If there's any big increase of his play, it'll be due to better DC/attitude rather than better DL.

As for Waynes, anyone who is the 8th highest paid player at their position (and their position has 2-3 starters per team, no less) needs to have high expectations and high performance otherwise they kind of deserve to be given some shit.

(05-24-2021, 03:29 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The 2018 & 2019 line with Atkins/Dunlap/Hubbard/Billings sure wasn't tomato cans. If there's any big increase of his play, it'll be due to better DC/attitude rather than better DL.

As for Waynes, anyone who is the 8th highest paid player at their position (and their position has 2-3 starters per team, no less) needs to have high expectations and high performance otherwise they kind of deserve to be given some shit.

Look at how soft Jermaine Gresham was...

(05-24-2021, 01:05 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: I think wj3 is a better corner and will have a better career but here in Cincinnati I think Wayne’s is better.  William Jackson did not want to be here and we saw his play decline with that narrative.  Wayne’s imo doesn’t share that feeling is paid handsomely and probably has a lot to prove so as a bengals fan I’m all for the Wayne’s signing.

I'm honestly not sure how good Waynes is going to be in a zone scheme.
He seems much more suited for a press man scheme.
He lacks some agility, but his plus ball skills might allow him to do well in zone.
He definitely doesn't "stick" to receivers as well as someone like WJ3, but he's more physical and better at defending in the run game.

(05-24-2021, 03:29 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The 2018 & 2019 line with Atkins/Dunlap/Hubbard/Billings sure wasn't tomato cans. If there's any big increase of his play, it'll be due to better DC/attitude rather than better DL.

As for Waynes, anyone who is the 8th highest paid player at their position (and their position has 2-3 starters per team, no less) needs to have high expectations and high performance otherwise they kind of deserve to be given some shit.

I would be extremely shocked if Waynes plays like a Top 10 CB, which is what he's getting paid like.

Does anyone even really know what Lou is running this year on defense? Split Zone? I think base will be 4-2-5.