(07-02-2021, 12:24 AM)J24 Wrote: I put the mess that we are currently in more on Duke and the rest  of our front office then Taylor.

Taylor has his problems but the biggest problem he has is Duke.

I agree with this. It can never be forgotten how the "rebuild" was so poorly executed by not trading Marvin talent (Geno, Dunlap, Dalton, Green, WJIII, Dre etc) the year Zac was hired to stockpile draft picks and give Zac a true reset. 

It ended up being a wasted year under Zac's belt (with the exception of still being able to draft Burrow). 

The rebuild was poorly executed and that is on Duke.

The rebuild was executed like Zac was on a 17 year plan and not a 3 year plan (take note for those who think he is on the hot seat). And outside of the Bengals Org, that isn't how it's typically done.

(07-02-2021, 10:20 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Im not against chase and im not even pro Sewell, but the latest SB saw an elite QB and his elite weapons flounder due to constant pressure.

Time will tell. I guess the first time chase makes a great td we will think he was the right pick and the first time Burrow gets lit up we will know we should have taken Sewell. 

There were a lot of factors in the SB.  TB also had an elite QB with elite weapons that jumped up big early on KC.  Reid also had a terrible game plan considering he was starting 3 backups on his OL and making one of his T's switch sides.  He seemed more concerned with trying to win the MVP trophy for Mahommes than the Lombardi.

 People also forget that Mahommes was heavily pressured in the SB the previous year, but KC won.  SF sacked him more than TB did.  If elite weapons/mediocre OL means back to back AFC titles and a SB win, then where do I sign up?

(07-02-2021, 11:42 AM)Whatever Wrote: There were a lot of factors in the SB.  TB also had an elite QB with elite weapons that jumped up big early on KC.  Reid also had a terrible game plan considering he was starting 3 backups on his OL and making one of his T's switch sides.  He seemed more concerned with trying to win the MVP trophy for Mahommes than the Lombardi.

 People also forget that Mahommes was heavily pressured in the SB the previous year, but KC won.  SF sacked him more than TB did.  If elite weapons/mediocre OL means back to back AFC titles and a SB win, then where do I sign up?

sacks dont tell the story. Mahomes was pressured like hell against Tampa. He was under much more duress in the tampa super bowl than the san fran super bowl

and in no world was the chiefs offensive line EVER mediocre. Always a great o-line. Just got injured in the playoffs and was decimated against the Bucs

(07-02-2021, 12:24 AM)J24 Wrote: Taylor has his problems but the biggest problem he has is Duke.

Tobin has a history of building a roster that consistently made the playoffs.  Taylor has a history of absolutely sucking as both a coordinator and head coach.

Our drafts were crappy for a few years but everyone seems pleased with the free agent and draft moves the last two years.

(07-02-2021, 11:19 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: Oh goody

the ol' "he doesnt need a good line because his receivers are so good" crap

Oh goody

The old "he doesn't need a defense or receivers to win because he is so great".

Bengals needed to improve their O-line, but they can't win if they spend all their money and draft picks on the O-line.

(07-02-2021, 11:25 AM)sandwedge Wrote: No you don't. You want him to fail, its in every post you make. 

So I'm supposed to blindly follow the lead of a coach who has a 6-25-1 record and believe in my heart that he's going to instantly turn it around?  

Again, if this team makes the playoffs i'll be the first one back here to eat crow. 

I've said good things about this team.  I think this team has a lot of good pieces and parts.  

I think their deficient in the coaching category.  I think Lou should've been let go after last off season and I think Zac should give up play calling duties and focus on the whole team instead of just the offense.  

The 2 areas i think are the weakest on this team are the 2 area's that win games in the NFL.  The offensive line and the front  7 on defense.  I think our defensive back field is good enough to make plays.  We have 3 good wide outs, good run back and a great QB but none of that matters w/o good coaching. 

(07-02-2021, 12:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Oh goody

The old "he doesn't need a defense or receivers to win because he is so great".

Bengals needed to improve their O-line, but they can't win if they spend all their money and draft picks on the O-line.

bengals are not in win now mode with the current roster they are fielding

might as well seriously invest in protecting your long term, face of the franchise investment

anyone with eyes could tell you that the bengals offense didnt need an elite pass catcher. They needed a run game. BADLY

also needed better protection. Badly.

Really dont care if the defense is playing well when the stud who can lead cincy to the promised land is on his back grimacing after match ups against all the other AFC north teams

Joe Mixon has been beyond underwhelming thus far, and it's mainly due to the bengals giving him gargabe to run through

Bengals arent going anywhere this year, even if they did decide to put more capital into the o-line, and ignore the other areas.

but now they'll be under .500, with Burrow under duress all season,  and Mixon being underwhelming until probably the last 2 games of the season

(07-02-2021, 01:44 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: bengals are not in win now mode with the current roster they are fielding

Yes they absolutely are.  The have spent $200 million on new free agents the last two years and some of the bigger signings were for one yera deals.

If they are not in a "win now" mode this season then they never will be.

(07-02-2021, 01:44 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: but now they'll be under .500, with Burrow under duress all season, 

They have improved the O-line.  Don't know why you keep acting like they have done nothing.

There are lots of QBs who are able to be successful without a first round pick or $15 million free agent at every O-line position.  Why can't Joe?

(07-02-2021, 01:44 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: and Mixon being underwhelming until probably the last 2 games of the season

WTF did this come from?

Why exactly are you saying Mixon won't be any good until the last 2 games of the season?

(07-02-2021, 01:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: WTF did this come from?

Why exactly are you saying Mixon won't be any good until the last 2 games of the season?

it was a bit hyperbolic

Mixon starts to hit his stride real late in the season once the bengals are already out of it

(07-02-2021, 11:44 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: sacks dont tell the story. Mahomes was pressured like hell against Tampa. He was under much more duress in the tampa super bowl than the san fran super bowl

and in no world was the chiefs offensive line EVER mediocre. Always a great o-line. Just got injured in the playoffs and was decimated against the Bucs

He was pressured more against TB, certainly.  However, his stat line against SF of 4 sacks, 2 Int's, 2 fumbles, and 9 rushes for only 29 yards very much tells the story of a QB under duress.  

KC's OL was very mediocre last year.  They lost Schwartz and Osemele very early in the year.  Mahommes was pressured on 22% of his dropbacks.  By comparison, the Bengals QB's were pressured on 22.1% of their dropbacks, and many push the "worst OL in the league" narrative for us.  They stiil were the #1 seed in the AFC, won two playoff games, and made the SB.  

There's multiple ways to build a great team.  You don't have to have a great or even good OL to win anymore.  

(07-02-2021, 03:03 PM)Whatever Wrote: He was pressured more against TB, certainly.  However, his stat line against SF of 4 sacks, 2 Int's, 2 fumbles, and 9 rushes for only 29 yards very much tells the story of a QB under duress.  

KC's OL was very mediocre last year.  They lost Schwartz and Osemele very early in the year.  Mahommes was pressured on 22% of his dropbacks.  By comparison, the Bengals QB's were pressured on 22.1% of their dropbacks, and many push the "worst OL in the league" narrative for us.  They stiil were the #1 seed in the AFC, won two playoff games, and made the SB.  

There's multiple ways to build a great team.  You don't have to have a great or even good OL to win anymore.  

well hell if you don't need a good offensive line to win in the NFL anymore then whats the excuse for the past 2 seasons? 

Everyone on here says the OL has been crap and you can't win with that line? 

I mean if you can win with a crap offensive line I'm just curious as to why we're 6-25-1 over the last 2 season. 

(07-02-2021, 03:03 PM)Whatever Wrote: There's multiple ways to build a great team.  You don't have to have a great or even good OL to win anymore.  

ha
Haha
HAHAAHAHAH

pardon me

(07-02-2021, 03:06 PM)TJ528 Wrote: well hell if you don't need a good offensive line to win in the NFL anymore then whats the excuse for the past 2 seasons? 

Everyone on here says the OL has been crap and you can't win with that line? 

I mean if you can win with a crap offensive line I'm just curious as to why we're 6-25-1 over the last 2 season. 

I think Whatever is a comedian

(07-02-2021, 03:06 PM)TJ528 Wrote: well hell if you don't need a good offensive line to win in the NFL anymore then whats the excuse for the past 2 seasons? 

Everyone on here says the OL has been crap and you can't win with that line? 

I mean if you can win with a crap offensive line I'm just curious as to why we're 6-25-1 over the last 2 season. 

Because the crap defense, offensive weapons, place kickers, and coaching had nothing to do with all those losses, right?  

(07-02-2021, 03:26 PM)Whatever Wrote: Because the crap defense, offensive weapons, place kickers, and coaching had nothing to do with all those losses, right?  

Oh no you're totally right, however, that offensive line who got our #1 pick starting QB knee slaughtered is a HUGE reason for those losing season as well.  

The defense has it's problems and it has a lot of them.  Coaching has more problems, but to say you can win in the NFL with a crap OL just isnt going to happen.  Sorry. 

(07-02-2021, 03:26 PM)Whatever Wrote: Because the crap defense, offensive weapons, place kickers, and coaching had nothing to do with all those losses, right?  

how about this

maybe except for 2018,

the bengals offensive line has been the team's main weak spot since 2016


aaaand it's still currently the main weak spot

(07-02-2021, 03:06 PM)TJ528 Wrote: well hell if you don't need a good offensive line to win in the NFL anymore then whats the excuse for the past 2 seasons? 

Everyone on here says the OL has been crap and you can't win with that line? 

I mean if you can win with a crap offensive line I'm just curious as to why we're 6-25-1 over the last 2 season. 

The elite level QB that was going to elevate the play of everyone around him and make the whole team better simply by drafting him didn't have enough high quality weapons that could get separation around him to succeed while the offensive line was terrible until the draft and free agency, then it was much improved by hiring a coach and getting a tackle from free agency when apparently a tackle wasn't needed because it was the interior of the offensive line that got Burrow hurt even though he had a worse line at LSU and was the reason they looked great. Oh, and Lou sucks, Taylor is crap but this will be his third rookie season and he's destined to break out and do things different and make the Bengals a playoff team you should absolutely bet the over because with one pick the team went from not having enough quality weapons to a top five WR group in the league and that will be enough to make them like the Chiefs. 

I mean, at least that's what I read around here.

Did I mention Mike Brown's crusty corpse is still shuffling the halls of Paul Brown Stadium?

(07-02-2021, 03:38 PM)TJ528 Wrote: Oh no you're totally right, however, that offensive line who got our #1 pick starting QB knee slaughtered is a HUGE reason for those losing season as well.  

The defense has it's problems and it has a lot of them.  Coaching has more problems, but to say you can win in the NFL with a crap OL just isnt going to happen.  Sorry. 

Russell Wilson took the third most sacks in the league last year.  The Seahawks still made the playoffs.  KC lost a penciled n starter to opt out and 2 more to injury early and still won the AFC with a crappy OL.  Not to mention all the teams that win with middle of the road lines every year.

(07-02-2021, 03:49 PM)Whatever Wrote: Russell Wilson took the third most sacks in the league last year.  The Seahawks still made the playoffs.  KC lost a penciled n starter to opt out and 2 more to injury early and still won the AFC with a crappy OL.  Not to mention all the teams that win with middle of the road lines every year.

Well I guess with a crap offensive line, a coach has to know they have a crappy OL. 

I remember many times last season Zac saying "we're happy with what we have up front" .

Maybe he just doesn't know how to call a game w/ a crappy OL and OC in Seattle and KC do.