(07-26-2021, 09:30 AM)Sled21 Wrote: The higher percentage of young people hospitalized is a skewed number. It's probably the same number it has always been, but more and more older people took the vaccine and are not hospitalized, so the percentages are higher. The Bucs are 16-0 headed for the 20-0 Brady says he wants to go this season, and your unvaccinated self brings covid into the locker room and cause a forfeit? Would you want to be that guy? I'm just glad the Bengals are one of the teams with over 85% of players vaccinated.

Brady would smash a case of avocados over the guy's head. 

(07-26-2021, 09:40 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: No, Ern, I don't think a vaccine for humans will eradicate viruses in animals that don't even affect humans.  In general, if viruses in animals don't cause disease in humans we just leave those alone.

But, what I do think the Covid 19 vaccine will do for humans is reduce the number of cases, hospitalizations, complications, and deaths in humans from Covid 19.  Much in the same way the rabies vaccine reduces deaths in humans, but doesn't eradicate the rabies virus in animals that don't get the rabies vaccine designed for humans.

Please pass this along to whomever provided you with that misinformation which serves as the basis for a false equivalency between colds and Covid 19.

You just made my original point. I said they won't eradicate covid-19 like they don't for the flu or colds. Not sure why you had to jump in

(07-26-2021, 09:12 AM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9

Thank you.

You claimed science was proving antibodies to Covid 19 from past infection were just as strong or stronger than antibodies produced due to the Covid 19 vaccine.  However, the article you provided doesn't indicate antibodies from past infection are stronger than antibodies from vaccination unless I missed that part in my reading.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2782139

I provided this article from JAMA previously which cites a study published in Nature which states, "this and other research demonstrates that vaccinating these individuals substantially enhances their immune response and confers strong resistance against variants of concern, including the B.1.617.2 (delta) variant."


This and other research is why the CDC recommends people who have recovered from Covid still get vaccinated and why President Trump's medical team recommended he get vaccinated and he did.

(07-26-2021, 09:30 AM)Sled21 Wrote: The higher percentage of young people hospitalized is a skewed number. It's probably the same number it has always been, but more and more older people took the vaccine and are not hospitalized, so the percentages are higher. The Bucs are 16-0 headed for the 20-0 Brady says he wants to go this season, and your unvaccinated self brings covid into the locker room and cause a forfeit? Would you want to be that guy? I'm just glad the Bengals are one of the teams with over 85% of players vaccinated.

No we have many more younger people hospitalised with the Delta variant than we had with the outbreaks we had here last year, we are a small sample size though.

(07-22-2021, 07:53 PM)jason Wrote: You're wasting your breath... Everyone is their own expert these days, and there's no use trying to reason with someone so dug in. It's best to let the experts whine about their rights and freedoms and whatever else they're babbling about... I personally stopped paying attention to them long ago.

I don't think the NFL cares about safety as much as they care about money, and they're not going to lose money over games bring cancelled because of a completely avoidable outbreak

Completely avoidable outbreak...lol.
The vaccine that still makes you contagious and still has you get the virus.  Look at all the politicians who have got it after the vaccine.  Look at the Olympians who tested positive after being vaccinated.  Now these are the people that we know only because they are in the spotlight.  The vaccine is useless.
  

(07-26-2021, 11:08 AM)rupe Wrote: Completely avoidable outbreak...lol.
The vaccine that still makes you contagious and still has you get the virus.  Look at all the politicians who have got it after the vaccine.  Look at the Olympians who tested positive after being vaccinated.  Now these are the people that we know only because they are in the spotlight.  The vaccine is useless.
  

Something that vastly reduces your chance of serious illness, hospitilaisation, ventilation and death is not useless.

(07-26-2021, 11:12 AM)AussieBengal Wrote: Something that vastly reduces your chance of serious illness, hospitilaisation, ventilation and death is not useless.

Nor are outbreaks completely unavoidable.  When the delta variant fails to deliver the fear that they want, like all the previous variants failed to do, they will just come out with another one to try and scare everyone to take a shot for a virus with a 99.997% survival rate.  According to this NIH article it's probably higher than .9991.  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7947934/?fbclid=IwAR3U5fIGC8VIk7PLU_WzxUjxFgVp9QIVzqW7CNuEUxYLdHmYPX5fY2RJH-I.  And the fact that the tests are very ineffective and the FDA recently had to remove many of the tests https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/coronavirus-covid-19-and-medical-devices/removal-lists-tests-should-no-longer-be-used-andor-distributed-covid-19-faqs-testing-sars-cov-2?fbclid=IwAR0DFu_OPHQUq44CGQsmKRyqShRjFs3AYPxnaZvajpJu9Wld9E2zFwGm1Fg.  Thank goodness they dropped from 40 cycles or we all would be testing positive again.  

The NFL should increase the roster limit to address being able to field a team in the likelihood of a breakout. 

(07-26-2021, 11:08 AM)rupe Wrote: Completely avoidable outbreak...lol.
The vaccine that still makes you contagious and still has you get the virus.  Look at all the politicians who have got it after the vaccine.  Look at the Olympians who tested positive after being vaccinated.  Now these are the people that we know only because they are in the spotlight.  The vaccine is useless.
  

Far from useless.  Vaccination does not equal immunity.  What it does, is exponentially reduce your chance of both infection and severity.  But I haven't seen a single report of those vaccinated athletes or politicians being rushed to the hospital because of their conditions, and that is making the assumption that they are in fact infected.  This last statement is predicated on the fact that the tests only confirm presence of virus DNA, not the viability of the viral particles picked up by the test.  In other words, they don't tell you if the particles are live or dead.  I myself am a fully vaccinated Covid survivor, and I had to have an exploratory surgery postponed at the start of the summer because I tested positive for Covid.  It did not mean I had an infection, only that I had particles present in my nasal cavity.  But per the policy of the clinic, it still required a 4 week postponement.  I was able to do nasal irrigation that evening and another PCR test the following day, which came back negative.  This proved that I was not infected, as I would have continued to accumulate particles in my nasal cavities overnight and into the following day had that been the case.

(07-25-2021, 12:14 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Hospitals get paid for services rendered.  Not deaths.

There is still a bill when someone dies, right?

And more to the point, it isn't for people that die but people that have covid-like symptoms being called covid and grossly inflating numbers, which created the fear.  I don't agree with it, but I even went on to explain why they are doing it and that I understood the motivation.  

Interesting that you only chose to respond to that point when I spent most of my post defending healthcare and encouraging the vaccine.  

(07-26-2021, 11:38 AM)jfkbengals Wrote: Far from useless.  Vaccination does not equal immunity.  What it does, is exponentially reduce your chance of both infection and severity.  But I haven't seen a single report of those vaccinated athletes or politicians being rushed to the hospital because of their conditions, and that is making the assumption that they are in fact infected.  This last statement is predicated on the fact that the tests only confirm presence of virus DNA, not the viability of the viral particles picked up by the test.  In other words, they don't tell you if the particles are live or dead.  I myself am a fully vaccinated Covid survivor, and I had to have an exploratory surgery postponed at the start of the summer because I tested positive for Covid.  It did not mean I had an infection, only that I had particles present in my nasal cavity.  But per the policy of the clinic, it still required a 4 week postponement.  I was able to do nasal irrigation that evening and another PCR test the following day, which came back negative.  This proved that I was not infected, as I would have continued to accumulate particles in my nasal cavities overnight and into the following day had that been the case.

 "But I haven't seen a single report of those vaccinated athletes or politicians being rushed to the hospital because of their conditions, and that is making the assumption that they are in fact infected. " I didn't see a lot of them rushed to the hospital before the vaccine...statistically. 

(07-26-2021, 09:37 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Plus, it's not like they get penalized just for not getting vaccinated. They have to test positive and have enough other players test positive that they cannot field a team.

Good point, and I have not taken the time to read the entire "rule book", but I am aware that there are different rules for non-vaccinated players that includes things like dining with the team and going out to restaurants.  I'm a bit surprised more has not been made of this, because if I was a non-vax'd player, I would feel really detached from my team.  

Regardless, as many have stated, there are many businesses that basically force employees to get the vaccine and this sport happens to generate a ton of its revenue from advertisements and ticket sales.  If a potential outbreak risks losing those things from loss of games and attendance, they should be able to do everything in their power to protect their business.  Let's not forget, it isn't just the NFL that makes money off the games.  There are a lot of smaller businesses that do as well.  

Mike Brown said the Bengals are over 90% vaccinated and the coaches are entirely vaccinated.

— Ben Baby (@Ben_Baby) July 26, 2021

Well as to a funny point.

i loved when Dak point to HIPPA when he chose not to share his vaccination status.

(07-26-2021, 01:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well as to a funny point.

i loved when Dak point to HIPPA when he chose not to share his vaccination status.

Someone who shall only be named in the P&R forum said the same thing.  The next time someone asks how im doing im going to say disclosure of that information would he a HIPPA violation. 

(07-26-2021, 11:08 AM)rupe Wrote: Completely avoidable outbreak...lol.
The vaccine that still makes you contagious and still has you get the virus.  Look at all the politicians who have got it after the vaccine.  Look at the Olympians who tested positive after being vaccinated.  Now these are the people that we know only because they are in the spotlight.  The vaccine is useless.
  

The vaccine makes it so if you get it, it is a mild case instead of a 3 month hospitalization.

(07-26-2021, 10:23 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: You just made my original point. I said they won't eradicate covid-19 like they don't for the flu or colds. Not sure why you had to jump in

You original point was we will never have herd immunity to Covid 19 because we don't have herd immunity to colds or flu.  You changed tack to eradication after it was explained you're comparison was apples to oranges.

There are over 200 different viruses that cause colds in humans and they don't kill 600K Americans in a year.  Since adults typically get 2-3 colds per year it would take over 200 colds and close to 100 years for the average adult to develop acquired immunity through infection to all those viruses. Or they would need to get over 200 different vaccines for the different viruses that cause colds.  Because of mutations, by they time you did get immunity to all those viruses at least one virus would have probably mutated decreasing your immunity or rendering it ineffective.

Versus hundreds of coronaviruses that mostly affect animals.  There are only seven coronaviruses that cause disease in humans. Four cause mild to moderate cold like symptoms.  Three cause mild to life threatening infections; SARS, MERS, and Covid 19. The SARS virus disappeared in 2004. MERS occasionally causes sporadic outbreaks.  So were talking about a specific vaccine for a specific virus that has killed 600K Americans in a year. We can achieve herd immunity against one virus that causes one infectious disease in humans if people are compliant with the current medical recommendations.

Throughout the course of human history, we have only "eradicated" two viruses through vaccination programs; smallpox in humans and rinderpest in cattle.  And yet we still recommend vaccinations because they reduce morbidity and mortality in humans even though we know vaccinations in humans won't eradicate viruses in the animal kingdom that currently don't cause disease in humans. I never claimed we would eradicate all coronaviruses.

As they say in the military, attention to detail.

(07-26-2021, 11:08 AM)rupe Wrote: Completely avoidable outbreak...lol.
The vaccine that still makes you contagious and still has you get the virus.  Look at all the politicians who have got it after the vaccine.  Look at the Olympians who tested positive after being vaccinated.  Now these are the people that we know only because they are in the spotlight.  The vaccine is useless.
  

Again, there have been 303K deaths due to Covid in the US since the vaccine rollout, less than 6K of those were in fully vaccinated people. It unequivocally reduces mortality.

The Pfizer vaccine is 95% effective, Moderna is 94% effective, the Johnson and Johnson vaccine is 66% effective.  Note that none of them are 100% effective as no vaccine is.  Therefore, 5% of those vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine will still get Covid, 6% for Moderna, and 34% for Johnson and Johnson.

Birth control isn't 100% effective, yet the average person wouldn't claim birth control is worthless.

(07-26-2021, 09:17 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Maybe.  Last season was covid crazy with little to no fans and no preseason and all sorts of wacky variables and it still ended up being Tom Brady vs another elite QB team in the super bowl.  

I just don't see things being all that insane this year, even if some fake W's are handed out.  I'll believe it when I see it. 

We shall see.

(07-26-2021, 09:32 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I still remember that awful roughing the passer penalty against Justin Smith hitting Bruce Gradkowski costing the Bengals the game.  The catch rule probably cost more teams more games than this rule will.  The difference is the players are in control of this.  If they don't want this rule to affect to the schedule or their record then comply with the rule or be penalized just like any other rule of the game.

Human error on the field (be it players or officiating) is part of the game. Handing out Ls based on off-field decisions is most definitely not. Nor should it be.

I'm surprised more people aren't worried about the integrity of the game/product...but I have a feeling this all comes down to politics and people being irked with those who aren't vaccinated, and that trumps their desire for league integrity.

(07-26-2021, 02:57 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You original point was we will never have herd immunity to Covid 19 because we don't have herd immunity to colds or flu.  You changed tack to eradication after it was explained you're comparison was apples to oranges.

There are over 200 different viruses that cause colds in humans and they don't kill 600K Americans in a year.  Since adults typically get 2-3 colds per year it would take over 200 colds and close to 100 years for the average adult to develop acquired immunity through infection to all those viruses. Or they would need to get over 200 different vaccines for the different viruses that cause colds.  Because of mutations, by they time you did get immunity to all those viruses at least one virus would have probably mutated decreasing your immunity or rendering it ineffective.

Versus hundreds of coronaviruses that mostly affect animals.  There are only seven coronaviruses that cause disease in humans. Four cause mild to moderate cold like symptoms.  Three cause mild to life threatening infections; SARS, MERS, and Covid 19. The SARS virus disappeared in 2004. MERS occasionally causes sporadic outbreaks.  So were talking about a specific vaccine for a specific virus that has killed 600K Americans in a year. We can achieve herd immunity against one virus that causes one infectious disease in humans if people are compliant with the current medical recommendations.

Throughout the course of human history, we have only "eradicated" two viruses through vaccination programs; smallpox in humans and rinderpest in cattle.  And yet we still recommend vaccinations because they reduce morbidity and mortality in humans even though we know vaccinations in humans won't eradicate viruses in the animal kingdom that currently don't cause disease in humans. I never claimed we would eradicate all coronaviruses.

As they say in the military, attention to detail.

I stand by my point that we will never eradicate or have herd immunity to this new mutating seasonal disease

(07-26-2021, 03:57 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: I stand by my point that we will never eradicate or have herd immunity to this new mutating seasonal disease

WTF are you talking about?  It has been a continuous problem, not seasonal.