(08-30-2021, 04:33 PM)jj22 Wrote: Weird that they would sell the youth to keep the aged (and would be out of league) Vets. Maybe if Burrow wasn't coming off injury it would be different. 

I’m sure you felt the same when we threw MJ in there as a rookie…

(08-30-2021, 02:54 PM)Synric Wrote: Michael Jordan and Trey Hill both give G/C versatility and with 11 lineman competing for a roster spot one of the interior guys were on the way out any way you looked at it.


As for Trey Hill don't sleep on him. In 2019 he looked like he was going to be the best Center in the 2021 draft but didnt look the same in 2020 which turned out could have been caused by a meniscus tear in both knees. Hill played well in the Pre-Season.

I think we need to wait until the dust settles this week.  I can feel a lot more roster juggling coming. I recall BJ Hill in some games and he was impressive to me.....but like others here I am concerned a bout depth at C. We may end up cutting Trey Hill and grabbing a good back up off the cut list. Also the trade makes me think maybe like Wren is gone and possibly Topou or Kareem .  

(08-30-2021, 04:34 PM)Au165 Wrote: I think teams are more asking then we are shopping. It's a numbers game and other teams do roster projections too to predict potential cuts and I am sure with the youth we have at guard in Carmen and Smith they see Jordan as a potential casualty they can jump on.

The thing is Carmen and Smith we may need as a future RT which leaves us back thin and in need of Oline help next year.

(08-30-2021, 04:35 PM)Au165 Wrote: Who is your backup center for game day with Price gone?

It would’ve been MJ, which is not something I endorse at all. I just don’t think Hill is ready… didn’t he get injured to start camp? Center is a really really important position on the line from an experience perspective… just not comfortable with rookie centers.

(08-30-2021, 04:36 PM)jj22 Wrote: The thing is Carmen and Smith we may need as a future RT which leaves us back thin and in need of Oline help next year.

This is the game of roster development. I think they moved Smith to guard with expectations that Carmen goes to RT and Smith will be in the fold for one of the guard spots.

(08-30-2021, 04:37 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: It would’ve been MJ, which is not something I endorse at all. I just don’t think Hill is ready… didn’t he get injured to start camp? Center is a really really important position on the line from an experience perspective… just not comfortable with rookie centers.

Hill is 100% a better option to play center in a pinch than Jordan who hasn't played the position at all in years. Jordan would be the 2nd  guard off the bench most likely by mid year with Carmen in play anyways.

(08-30-2021, 04:40 PM)Au165 Wrote: Hill is 100% a better option to play center in a pinch than Jordan who hasn't played the position at all in years. Jordan would be the 2nd  guard off the bench most likely by mid year with Carmen in play anyways.

You have anything to back that up other than your opinion? Why so confident in Hill? He hasn’t done anything to warrant your rosy opinion on him.

(08-30-2021, 04:41 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: You have anything to back that up other than your opinion? Why so confident in Hill? He hasn’t done anything to warrant your rosy opinion on him.

A guy who has trained his body for two seasons to play a whole new position is better than a guy who has been playing it for the last 2 and a half years. It is my opinion, one based in a very good understanding of the game. I mean the OL coach just allowed them to trade away the veteran back up option leaving Hill the only other option to play center on the roster. That would seem to mean he also agrees with that.

I guess I can do that too, why do you have confidence a guy who hasn't played the position for two years and has played HORRIBLE at the one he was training to play could step in and play? Why so confident? He hasn't done anything to warrant your rosy opinion on him.

(08-30-2021, 04:37 PM)Au165 Wrote: This is the game of roster development. I think they moved Smith to guard with expectations that Carmen goes to RT and Smith will be in the fold for one of the guard spots.

Carman.

As to moving him to Tackle, no.. absolutely not. Love the guy, Clemson fan through and through, but Carman is not an NFL tackle. Lawrence being fluid in the pocket helped him avoid a lot of sacks when Carman was facing good speed rushers. As a guard inside where he can just be a brute, he should really excell as he adjust to the position, but he is not the guy you want protecting the edge with how often speed guys beat him before. 


As to the center debate, I think more moves are incoming before this is all said and done.

(08-30-2021, 04:50 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Carman.

As to moving him to Tackle, no.. absolutely not. Love the guy, Clemson fan through and through, but Carman is not an NFL tackle. Lawrence being fluid in the pocket helped him avoid a lot of sacks when Carman was facing good speed rushers. As a guard inside where he can just be a brute, he should really excell as he adjust to the position, but he is not the guy you want protecting the edge with how often speed guys beat him before. 


As to the center debate, I think more moves are incoming before this is all said and done.

They drafted him with plans to kick him to RT. Willie vouched for it and so did Duke Manyweather, which are two pretty strong endorsements. I think a lot of it will come down to how Reiff plays and his willingness to return next year but I think he will get a crack there.

So Frank gave up on him or was it a tough roster cut.
Let's look at the outlook if reports are true who do you have that can not only play but well. You have two guys already on the roster who they think can push a pocket forward and make decisions. My worry here would be current injury history past/ present. The one thing I absolutely hate about this franchise is how they value PROTECTION! Katie has a plan I trust her.

(08-30-2021, 04:57 PM)Emeritus Wrote:  Katie has a plan I trust her.

based on what?

what's with the blind optimism over Katie Blackburn?

show me what she has done 

Has anyone asked how will this effect John Ross' confidence?

(08-30-2021, 04:44 PM)Au165 Wrote: A guy who has trained his body for two seasons to play a whole new position is better than a guy who has been playing it for the last 2 and a half years. It is my opinion, one based in a very good understanding of the game. I mean the OL coach just allowed them to trade away the veteran back up option leaving Hill the only other option to play center on the roster. That would seem to mean he also agrees with that.

I guess I can do that too, why do you have confidence a guy who hasn't played the position for two years and has played HORRIBLE at the one he was training to play could step in and play? Why so confident? He hasn't done anything to warrant your rosy opinion on him.

Not really confident in either one, but I’ve seen what it looks like when you throw rookies out there expecting them to pick it up quickly. At least MJ has been through NFL seasons and has an understanding of what it takes to maintain your body and handle NFL level competition. He got some awards in college for his Center play as well, so let’s not act like he is completely unqualified. I just think your faith in Trey Hill is a bit unwarranted. But oh well, if you’re ok trotting out 6th rounders to protect Joe Burrow then I guess that’s on you.

(08-30-2021, 05:01 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Not really confident in either one, but I’ve seen what it looks like when you throw rookies out there expecting them to pick it up quickly. At least MJ has been through NFL seasons and has an understanding of what it takes to maintain your body and handle NFL level competition. He got some awards in college for his Center play as well, so let’s not act like he is completely unqualified. I just think your faith in Trey Hill is a bit unwarranted. But oh well, if you’re ok trotting out 6th rounders to protect Joe Burrow then I guess that’s on you.

I'm not making the roster decisions, that would be our OL coach who has the confidence. Jordan may make the team, I have 100% confidence he will not be playing center over Hill.

(08-30-2021, 05:00 PM)Destro Wrote: Has anyone asked how will this effect John Ross' confidence?

That doesn't belong here go to a Cleveland blog! Ok

(08-30-2021, 05:08 PM)Au165 Wrote: I'm not making the roster decisions, that would be our OL coach who has the confidence. Jordan may make the team, I have 100% confidence he will not be playing center over Hill.

Ok, but for the record, really hoping they pick up a seasoned center to be our backup.

(08-30-2021, 05:13 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Ok, but for the record, really hoping they pick up a seasoned center to be our backup.

I'm not against that, if they can do it, it's just a really tough numbers crunch that if Ossai and Waynes were healthy would be easier to pull off.

(08-30-2021, 04:28 PM)Au165 Wrote: Because you only carry 9 OL usually and 10 is max.

Williams
Xavier
Hopkins
Spain
Reiff
Hill
Smith
Carmen
Johnson

There is 9, now do we keep 10? Maybe, but the issue is the roster construction as a whole. If you keep 10 here you have to go lite somewhere else and that is tough with Ossai having to be on the roster through cut down for IR able to return and Waynes out a couple weeks meaning we have to carry 6 CB most likely. Other issue is that is a very interior heavy roster and I'm sure they'd love to carry another tackle. Now can Carmen or Smith play tackle in a pinch? Maybe but if Prince can't make it to PS we could be in some trouble.

There is no reason to carry Ossai on the 53 man to start. He should be IR'd. If he is healthy quicker, great. But I am not gonna cut a guy I know can play now for MAYBE 1-3 games of a guy later. Only reason to do that would be if we were a contender & he could help in the POs. We are not contenders. 

We were always gonna carry 6 CBs. 

You can carry 10 OL without going light anywhere else. 

QB: 2. Burrow, Allen. 
RB: 4. Mixon, Perine, C. Evans, Patrick. (I could see 3). 
WR 6. Chase, Higgins, Boyd + 3 of Tate, Thomas, Taylor, Irwin. 
TE 3. Uzomah, D. Sample, Moss. 
OL 10. J. Williams, Spain, Hopkins, XSF, Reiff; Smith, MJ, T. Hill, Carman, + FJ/Prince. 
----------------That's 25 on Offense-----------
DL 10. Hendrickson, Reader, Ogunjobi, Hubbard; Sample, Tupou, BJ Hill, Kareem; Shelvin, Hodge. 
LB 5. L. Wilson, Pratt; ADG, J. Evans, Bailey. 
CB 6. Waynes, Awuzie, Hilton; Apple, D. Phillips, Davis
S 4. Bell, Bates; R. Allen, B. Wilson
--------25 on Defense
K: McPherson
P: Huber 
LS: Harris 
---------

IR: Ossai, Adeniji, Hubert. 

If we deal MJ, I'd much rather keep Prince on the roster or T. Henderson than Ossai, who won't play till December, if at all. 

(08-30-2021, 05:16 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: There is no reason to carry Ossai on the 53 man to start. He should be IR'd. If he is healthy quicker, great. But I am not gonna cut a guy I know can play now for MAYBE 1-3 games of a guy later. Only reason to do that would be if we were a contender & he could help in the POs. We are not contenders. 

We were always gonna carry 6 CBs. 

You can carry 10 OL without going light anywhere else. 

QB: 2. Burrow, Allen. 
RB: 4. Mixon, Perine, C. Evans, Patrick. (I could see 3). 
WR 6. Chase, Higgins, Boyd + 3 of Tate, Thomas, Taylor, Irwin. 
TE 3. Uzomah, D. Sample, Moss. 
OL 10. J. Williams, Spain, Hopkins, XSF, Reiff; Smith, MJ, T. Hill, Carman, + FJ/Prince. 
----------------That's 25 on Offense-----------
DL 10. Hendrickson, Reader, Ogunjobi, Hubbard; Sample, Tupou, BJ Hill, Kareem; Shelvin, Hodge. 
LB 5. L. Wilson, Pratt; ADG, J. Evans, Bailey. 
CB 6. Waynes, Awuzie, Hilton; Apple, D. Phillips, Davis
S 4. Bell, Bates; R. Allen, B. Wilson
--------25 on Defense
K: McPherson
P: Huber 
LS: Harris 
---------

IR: Ossai, Adeniji, Hubert. 

If we deal MJ, I'd much rather keep Prince on the roster or T. Henderson than Ossai, who won't play till December, if at all. 

If Ossai is IR'd he can't return, you have to carry him through Tuesday, it sounds like they think he can come back hence why he isn't on IR yet.