So how you feeling about ZT & Co. ? What do you think are realistic expectations for this season ?

I must honestly say I just can't get onboard the Zac train. He's gonna have to put up some W's before my mind changes. I mean he just hasn't done anything for me to hang my hat on.

What do you think is the win level that would convince you he's gonna be worth keeping around ? I'm thinking 9, I'm thinking it's gonna take JB and the Offense 3 or 4 games to get clicking. I don't believe we're going to do very well early on.

But I feel the time for excuses is over, put up or shut up time.

I hope he does flip the switch this season and makes this team look like it belongs in the NFL. But I just can't help it. I have doubts.

Here are my ranges of wins and how they would relate to Zac Taylor:

0-6 wins - Fire Zac Taylor, Brian Callahan and Lou Anarumo.

7-9 wins (or 10 wins if that does not achieve a playoff berth) - Give them one more year to reach the playoffs.

10-11 wins and a playoff berth - Celebrate our success. Prepare for more success next year and potentially extensions if they replicate their success.

12-17 wins - Extensions all around, as I assume at least one of them is entering their contract year in 2022.

I anticipate us landing in that 7-10 wins with no playoff berth range, so I expect Zac to be here next year and I will, at that point, expect us to reach the playoffs or fire the coaching staff.

I have low confidence in the coaching staff, but will certainly hope they exceed my expectations and reach the playoffs. We are a very young team so getting to the post season seems like it would be a tremendous success at this point considering the division we play in. Anything less the a winning season I think we should make a coaching change unless they are very very close to 9 wins and the team was exceptionally competitive all year. I'm not sure if this is a contract year or not, but I would be more on board of a one more year type of situation with 9+ years or really comptitve barring winning a playoff game.

(09-07-2021, 09:57 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Here are my ranges of wins and how they would relate to Zac Taylor:

0-6 wins - Fire Zac Taylor, Brian Callahan and Lou Anarumo.

7-9 wins (or 10 wins if that does not achieve a playoff berth) - Give them one more year to reach the playoffs.

10-11 wins and a playoff berth - Celebrate our success. Prepare for more success next year and potentially extensions if they replicate their success.

12-17 wins - Extensions all around, as I assume at least one of them is entering their contract year in 2022.

I anticipate us landing in that 7-10 wins with no playoff berth range, so I expect Zac to be here next year and I will, at that point, expect us to reach the playoffs or fire the coaching staff.

I can get onboard with that.

(09-07-2021, 10:00 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: I have low confidence in the coaching staff, but will certainly hope they exceed my expectations and reach the playoffs. We are a very young team so getting to the post season seems like it would be a tremendous success at this point considering the division we play in. Anything less the a winning season I think we should make a coaching change unless they are very very close to 9 wins and the team was exceptionally competitive all year. I'm not sure if this is a contract year or not, but I would be more on board of a one more year type of situation with 9+ years or really comptitve barring winning a playoff game.

That's the thing that matters to me as well. The eye test for lack of better way to put it ? Be in games, get off the field on those 3rd and longs. Score TD's in the redzone. Stop getting gashed so much and often vs. the run, look like you belong.

I don't have much confidence in him, and I never did (not that that is a very dramatic take, or anything). I just have a bad feeling between having nearly zero pre-season for the starters we are primed for a slow start and we show enough "improvement?" later in the season that we can't fire ZT because we "don't know" what we have in him.

We are going into week 1 with injuries and rust and new pieces and so on and so forth. It'd be swell to make the playoffs but our division is hard, the AFC is very competitive, and we are going in rusty and injured. We can't afford a slow start and here we are having seen 100% (apparently) Burrow throw a single pass in gametime in nearly a year and we aren't sure if our #5 pick WR can catch the ball. The NFL isn't a league with 81 or 162 games, you can't waste games getting ready while everyone else is sprinting.

We shall see.

I feel like each year I trick myself into having confidence in the coaching staff. I shouldn’t have any, but for some reason I tell myself “it was just a matter of time, now it’s his guys and we are going to see the final product.” I hope he finds a way to pull it off, I like the guy generally… back of my mind I know what this staff is though, I think we will be scratching our heads again multiple times this year. It will take an epic turnaround for me to gain full confidence in Zac.

Taylor has more talent this year. I also believe that just based on random odds our team will be more healthy this year. So we should win more games this year. But I have to see a BIG improvement before I get on the Zac train.

9 wins probably won't get us in the playoffs, but it should be the absolute minimum for Zac to be back in 2022. We don't have an "elite" roster but neither do most of the other teams in the league. Our coaches have to be able to win with what we have now, and like most other teams pray that we get some breaks in the draft or free agency that will get eventually get us an elite roster capable of winning championships.

(09-07-2021, 10:06 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: That's the thing that matters to me as well. The eye test for lack of better way to put it ? Be in games, get off the field on those 3rd and longs. Score TD's in the redzone. Stop getting gashed so much and often vs. the run, look like you belong.

I’d say even at that a minimum of like 7-8 wins. I want to see competitiveness and the ability to actually win games. Competitiveness all alone isn’t going to be enough.

(09-07-2021, 11:09 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: I’d say even at that a minimum of like 7-8 wins. I want to see competitiveness and the ability to actually win games. Competitiveness all alone isn’t going to be enough.

How long do we stick with ZT, though?  I can't help but think of the Raiders who are going into year 4 of Gruden and year 8 of Derek Carr and the fans are like "So...you think we crack 9 wins this year finally?"  Some teams just take forever to rebuild and while they rebuild they keep wondering if they're actually rebuilding. 

(09-07-2021, 11:13 AM)Nately120 Wrote: How long do we stick with ZT, though?  I can't help but think of the Raiders who are going into year 4 of Gruden and year 8 of Derek Carr and the fans are like "So...you think we crack 9 wins this year finally?"  Some teams just take forever to rebuild and while they rebuild they keep wondering if they're actually rebuilding. 

I don’t remember when his contract runs out was it a 3 or 4 year one? I’d say 7-9 wins and some improved competitiveness in most game’s and we let him ride that fourth year out (I’m guessing from the other responses he’s contracted until next year). Less than seven and I don’t care how competitive we are he’s done too little in 3 years so fire him. If we make the playoffs I’d probably still be in the let him go into that contract year unless we are just suddenly amazing.

(09-07-2021, 11:15 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: I don’t remember when his contract runs out was it a 3 or 4 year one? I’d say 7-9 wins and some improved competitiveness in most game’s and we let him ride that fourth year out (I’m guessing from the other responses he’s contracted until next year). Less than seven and I don’t care how competitive we are he’s done too little in 3 years so fire him. If we make the playoffs I’d probably still be in the let him go into that contract year unless we are just suddenly amazing.

I guess I can see it both ways...if ZT can get this team to 9 wins that'd be a great time to say "We have a franchise QB and a talented roster....who wants to coach here?"

There is a good chance ZT's greatest contribution to the Bengals was going 2-14 and getting Burrow...the guy has probably alrready made his most impactful contribution, here.  

(09-07-2021, 09:47 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: So how you feeling about ZT & Co. ? What do you think are realistic expectations for this season ?

I must honestly say I just can't get onboard the Zac train. He's gonna have to put up some W's before my mind changes. I mean he just hasn't done anything for me to hang my hat on.

What do you think is the win level that would convince you he's gonna be worth keeping around ? I'm thinking 9, I'm thinking it's gonna take JB and the Offense 3 or 4 games to get clicking. I don't believe we're going to do very well early on.

But I feel the time for excuses is over, put up or shut up time.

I hope he does flip the switch this season and makes this team look like it belongs in the NFL. But I just can't help it. I have doubts.

 Has to win 11+ this year to come back next after the showing the last 2 years and the constant drip of BS out his mouth

Mike Brown is a progress type of guy, as long as the wins keep going up every season, he'll give them that extension. Zac is in his make or break year. BUT, he has not been signed to an extension yet, so they could be contemplating a change if he does not get a winning season this season. Would I give him an extension even with a 9-7 season? The answer is NO.

IMO, this should be a "do or die" year for ZT (and Lou). I like the guy and I want him to succeed. But if this year is another bad one, he needs to be replaced. I think the talent is there, for the most part, but we need to start seeing results.

(09-07-2021, 11:09 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: I’d say even at that a minimum of like 7-8 wins. I want to see competitiveness and the ability to actually win games. Competitiveness all alone isn’t going to be enough.

I hate to think this way but I cant help  but think whats the tipping point on retaining ZT if we start 0-?  0-3? 0-8? or will they even do that as horrible as it may get? IMO if he starts 0-5 he needs to go and maybe let Simmons handle HC duties rest of way. 

(09-07-2021, 11:33 AM)Bengalitis Wrote:  Would I give him an extension even with a 9-7 season? The answer is NO.

I am not saying automatically bring him back if he wins 9, but if he has a winning record then you have to take a close look at how the team played to make the decision.  If he struggled to beat 9 bad teams and got blown out in the losses then he would have to go.  But if the team gets destroyed by injuries like they did last year and he wins 9 I would probably bring him back.

(09-07-2021, 11:51 AM)kalibengal Wrote: I hate to think this way but I cant help  but think whats the tipping point on retaining ZT if we start 0-?  0-3? 0-8? or will they even do that as horrible as it may get? IMO if he starts 0-5 he needs to go and maybe let Simmons handle HC duties rest of way. 

Mid-season head coaching changes are usually a waste of time.  

(09-07-2021, 11:51 AM)kalibengal Wrote: I hate to think this way but I cant help  but think whats the tipping point on retaining ZT if we start 0-?  0-3? 0-8? or will they even do that as horrible as it may get? IMO if he starts 0-5 he needs to go and maybe let Simmons handle HC duties rest of way. 

I think a bad 0-for start should get rid of him.

(09-07-2021, 12:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Mid-season head coaching changes are usually a waste of time.  

Yeah, look at the Browns...they had that bounty gate guy look better than Hue and then they got rid of him for Fatty Kitchens and then did a complete reboot a year later.  Hell, I wouldn't put it past ZT to have such lousy underlings that we have to keep him for fear of trying to promote one of them to HC.

Sweet Lou as our HC?  Does our OC even do anything?  Pollack and Simmons are the coaches who aren't bad, but they probably aren't HC material.  Oy, it'd be going from bad to worse if we get rid of ZT mid season if that's the case.