(09-21-2021, 01:27 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I caught a ton of flack for suggesting otherwise, and now that it's coming true, yall just want us to shut up about it?

But the fact is that it is not "coming true".  The line has actually played pretty well in pass protection.  Most of the sacks and pressures are due to missed blocks by TEs, RBs and others.  Plus Burrow is barely trying to move in the pocket to avoid pressure.

Hopkins has been the weakest link, and he is too good to replace just because he is recovering from an injury.

If we had 5 brand new starters of the highest quality on the oline, the backs and Tight Ends would still be missing blocks. This conversation is ludicrous.

(09-21-2021, 12:09 PM)fortyyearfan Wrote: Burrow will not finish this season and I see about 5 wins if that.I believe Burrow is already getting that long look of defeat.He is not ready for the NFL and needs to heal up completely.He is not talking like a qb that is positive.We are going to go through another long long season and Zac will be here another year.INSANE.

Dude, please contribute something to the board. This is just ridiculous.

Burrow as Fred shown has been hit less than about 9 of the top QB's including Tom Brady so far...

Quit acting like Burrow is some ***** or something. He is a tough sumbitch and this is football for God sake.

The OL will get better, guaranteed. Just hope the RB's get better in blitz pickup.

(09-21-2021, 01:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But the fact is that it is not "coming true".  The line has actually played pretty well in pass protection.  Most of the sacks and pressures are due to missed blocks by TEs, RBs and others.  Plus Burrow is barely trying to move in the pocket to avoid pressure.

Hopkins has been the weakest link, and he is too good to replace just because he is recovering from an injury.

XSF was terrible last game as well. You don't give up this many hits and sacks with a line playing "pretty well". If you believe that, you're living in a fantasy land. At this rate, we'll have the first good line to allow 60+ sacks via RB's, TE's and the QB just making himself get sacked.

(09-21-2021, 01:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But the fact is that it is not "coming true".  The line has actually played pretty well in pass protection.  Most of the sacks and pressures are due to missed blocks by TEs, RBs and others.  Plus Burrow is barely trying to move in the pocket to avoid pressure.

Hopkins has been the weakest link, and he is too good to replace just because he is recovering from an injury.

(09-21-2021, 01:45 PM)Sled21 Wrote: If we had 5 brand new starters of the highest quality on the oline, the backs and Tight Ends would still be missing blocks. This conversation in ludicrous.

Both of you are spot on. One thing we need to stop doing is letting the Defenses top Ends match up against our TE's.

Sample is a good blocker but that is a mismatch with any TE pretty much. Have Sample and Uzo chip on the team's best 
Ends and go out into the flat more for TE screens and such. This will help.

Mehhh it’s not a total NO for me.

It’s going to take someone with his size and agility to withstand the awful consequences of having this OLINE.

(09-20-2021, 12:33 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Big no on Scam Newton....

(09-21-2021, 01:51 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: XSF was terrible last game as well. You don't give up this many hits and sacks with a line playing "pretty well". If you believe that, you're living in a fantasy land. At this rate, we'll have the first good line to allow 60+ sacks via RB's, TE's and the QB just making himself get sacked.

Sorry Shake but you are in fantasy land if you are ignoring what is truly going on. Hopkins has been bad, XSF had a bad game
but other than that the OL hasn't been terrible. It has been the RB's on blitz pickup, the TE's matched up against the D's best 
Ends and yes Burrow falling down cause he isn't mobile and he is panicking understandably coming off of a bad injury.

It will get better. Mack and company was a damn good test early on. Sure, we failed but we can learn from it. Expecting Carman
to continue to grow now at RG, need to put Trey Hill in at Center if Hopkins continues to be THIS bad.

(09-21-2021, 01:55 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sorry Shake but you are in fantasy land if you are ignoring what is truly going on. Hopkins has been bad, XSF had a bad game
but other than that the OL hasn't been terrible. It has been the RB's on blitz pickup, the TE's matched up against the D's best 
Ends and yes Burrow falling down cause he isn't mobile and he is panicking understandably coming off of a bad injury.

It will get better. Mack and company was a damn good test early on. Sure, we failed but we can learn from it. Expecting Carman
to continue to grow now at RG, need to put Trey Hill in at Center if Hopkins continues to be THIS bad.

I guess time will tell as the season rolls on.

If we keep giving up sacks like this all year, blaming everyone but the line will start to look, well...stupid.

(09-21-2021, 03:21 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I guess time will tell as the season rolls on.

If we keep giving up sacks like this all year, blaming everyone but the line will start to look, well...stupid.

I thought most people have pointed out Hopkins for the most part.

The other guys on the line have missed blocks and assignments as well.

If you list sacks and hits as totals, everyone needs to be accountable for them.  Joe B as well.

(09-21-2021, 03:33 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I thought most people have pointed out Hopkins for the most part.

The other guys on the line have missed blocks and assignments as well.

If you list sacks and hits as totals, everyone needs to be accountable for them.  Joe B as well.

We're really not disagreeing. Yes, everyone should be accountable. But every time the line gets brought up, people deflect blame towards others. The PFF grades I just saw were terrible for all of our linemen, not just Hopkins.

I think the best guy was (ironically) Hopkins, who was around 65. Then you had one guy at 58 and the other 3 were in the 40s. That's atrocious. But yes, there are other factors. I guess that's to be expected when you're on pace for 76 sacks.

The line is awful. RBs have whiffed, and of course Burrow is a guy who looks to make plays at the cost of more sacks. It reminds me of when Marvin wanted more "unscripted plays" out of Dalton back in 2012.

This led to Dalton taking 46 sacks behind what should've been a very good pass blocking line. Now a 76 sack pace is what it looks like when you do that behind a bad line with backs who are struggling with blitz pickup (which could also be a play calling issue).

(09-21-2021, 04:02 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: We're really not disagreeing. Yes, everyone should be accountable. But every time the line gets brought up, people deflect blame towards others. The PFF grades I just saw were terrible for all of our linemen, not just Hopkins.

I think the best guy was (ironically) Hopkins, who was around 65. Then you had one guy at 58 and the other 3 were in the 40s. That's atrocious. But yes, there are other factors. I guess that's to be expected when you're on pace for 76 sacks.

The line is awful. RBs have whiffed, and of course Burrow is a guy who looks to make plays at the cost of more sacks. It reminds me of when Marvin wanted more "unscripted plays" out of Dalton back in 2012.

This led to Dalton taking 46 sacks behind what should've been a very good pass blocking line. Now a 76 sack pace is what it looks like when you do that behind a bad line with backs who are struggling with blitz pickup (which could also be a play calling issue).

The line ain't great by any means but those grades don't seem accurate.

Wouldn't be the first time.  Sometimes they are quite obviously flawed.

(09-21-2021, 01:03 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Had we drafted Sewell, he'd be our starting tackle on either left or right. Meaning Reiff or Jonah (more likely Reiff) would've kicked inside and helped our interior issues we're currently struggling with.

Yes, Chase is playing great. I don't think anyone doubted that in April. But most of the pro-Sewell side saw the current line struggled coming a mile away. Hopefully our prize QB makes it long enough to eventually take full advantage of these great receivers.

Not excuse hunting but i'd put a lot of the pressures/hits/sacks on the gameplan yesterday. I was yelling at the TV, wondering why Burrow was just standing there after getting the snap. The resulting info on the "gameplan" answered that and it was a super shitty gameplan. 

Burrow def isn't moving as well as he did last year but that shouldn't surprise anyone. It may well be a long year, until he gets 100% with putting everything on that knee, but as long as he's not knocked out again, there should be improvement as the season goes on. 

(09-21-2021, 03:21 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I guess time will tell as the season rolls on.

If we keep giving up sacks like this all year, blaming everyone but the line will start to look, well...stupid.

Weeeelllllllllllllll...

The blame should go where the blame belongs. If it's predominantly from other areas besides Olinemen, that's where it should be and you can't say "the line is bad" if they're not giving up the pressures/hits. 

If they are, then fine. 

Everyone should be willing to assign blame where it's needed and not try to look at a bottom line to fit a narrative. 

(09-21-2021, 01:47 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Dude, please contribute something to the board. This is just ridiculous.

Burrow as Fred shown has been hit less than about 9 of the top QB's including Tom Brady so far...

Quit acting like Burrow is some ***** or something. He is a tough sumbitch and this is football for God sake.

The OL will get better, guaranteed. Just hope the RB's get better in blitz pickup.

Side note: I'm assuming that the ***** is related to the p word for female genitalia which always seems like such an odd insult when calling someone weak or soft. That particular body part can stretch to push out a baby, take enormous abuse during reproduction and yet bounce back like nothing happened. Meanwhile, on the flip side, a simple knee to the male side of things leaves one on the ground vomitting and curled into a fetal position.


Not a shot at you Nate, just an observation about the common use of that as an insult and when you step back and think about it, it really isn't one. Anyways.... continue on now with the regularly scheduled debating of the team.

(09-21-2021, 04:35 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Side note: I'm assuming that the ***** is related to the p word for female genitalia which always seems like such an odd insult when calling someone weak or soft. That particular body part can stretch to push out a baby, take enormous abuse during reproduction and yet bounce back like nothing happened. Meanwhile, on the flip side, a simple knee to the male side of things leaves one on the ground vomitting and curled into a fetal position.


Not a shot at you Nate, just an observation about the common use of that as an insult and when you step back and think about it, it really isn't one. Anyways.... continue on now with the regularly scheduled debating of the team.

So what you'ere saying is the term should be "Stretch Armstrong?"  Doesn't really have the same ring to it...

(09-21-2021, 04:29 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Everyone should be willing to assign blame where it's needed and not try to look at a bottom line to fit a narrative. 

The "draft Sewell" crowd thinks this is somehow a big conspiracy where we somehow got PFF to blame someone other than O-linemen for some of the sacks.

Same way signing the tenth highest paid RT is "ignoring the offensive line" and "doing nothing to fx it".

That Burrow was just standing there a lot and holding it too long was apparent - even the sportscasters noticed it. On one of the sacks he was in the stupid empty backfield and still just stood there for over 4 seconds with the ball. He had another one where it was in a different formation but the time between snap and him meeting the defender was 6 seconds.

Too much empty backfield, too much shotgun, no challenging the secondary, no screens, no draws, and if you are having issues with backs picking up the blitzed or free rusher then you go max protect - it is an actual NFL offensive concept. Go max protect and send Chase, Higgins and Boyd out deeper and challenge the secondary. Do this and hit and the defense has to back off a bit - the Bears had 8 or more defenders within 10 yards of the LOS virtually the whole game - that is BEGGING to get the top taken off but dopey Zac had other ideas...

Just because someone is paid doesn't make them good. Not sure why some (1) keep equating the "10th highest paid RT" to mean he's a top 10 RT.

(09-21-2021, 04:05 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: The line ain't great by any means but those grades don't seem accurate.

Wouldn't be the first time.  Sometimes they are quite obviously flawed.

You're free to believe the 9 sacks and 19 hits aren't heavily contributed to by the line. You're also free to doubt PFF grades. But when things look this bad in both those regards, don't get red with me when I disagree and use them as evidence.

How I (and others) feel is completely understandable, even if you disagree.

(09-21-2021, 04:23 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Not excuse hunting but i'd put a lot of the pressures/hits/sacks on the gameplan yesterday. I was yelling at the TV, wondering why Burrow was just standing there after getting the snap. The resulting info on the "gameplan" answered that and it was a super shitty gameplan. 

Burrow def isn't moving as well as he did last year but that shouldn't surprise anyone. It may well be a long year, until he gets 100% with putting everything on that knee, but as long as he's not knocked out again, there should be improvement as the season goes on. 

It's fair to wonder how much those things play into it, and like I've said, I think they do. I think a lot of things have to go wrong to be giving up a sack or a hit on every 2-3 throws.

(09-21-2021, 04:29 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Weeeelllllllllllllll...

The blame should go where the blame belongs. If it's predominantly from other areas besides Olinemen, that's where it should be and you can't say "the line is bad" if they're not giving up the pressures/hits. 

If they are, then fine. 

Everyone should be willing to assign blame where it's needed and not try to look at a bottom line to fit a narrative. 

Agreed, and I posted the PFF grades from the last game. They were terrible for everyone other than Hopkins. 

Would be nice if someone could post a link to site that tracks who gave up the sacks. That said, when you allow 9 sacks and 19 hits in 2 games, I find it incredibly hard to believe that the line wouldn't factor heavily into that.

If it doesn't, we must have the worst scheme, RBs, TEs and QB in the history of history, as far as allowing sacks.

(09-21-2021, 04:38 PM)Sled21 Wrote: So what you'ere saying is the term should be "Stretch Armstrong?"  Doesn't really have the same ring to it...

I mean... saying the guy is a flimsy testicle kinda works... 

Or as you said in another thread... a "Richard"