A big part of it is the line.

If you need inches and your line can't budge, that's not playcalling. We make big plays because we've got big play talent, but we don't consistently make them because the line can't consistently prevent pressures. Having a more consistent line means you can open up that playbook and do some good

(10-11-2021, 03:23 PM)Joelist Wrote:  
Where are the rollouts?  

They've had most of their success when he's spent most of the drive under center. They just won't stick to it. 

(10-11-2021, 03:26 PM)jj22 Wrote: They've had most of their success when he's spent most of the drive under center. They just won't stick to it. 

Good point.

You can do designed rollouts from under center too. And I agree they are in shotgun WAY too much and use empty backfield WAY too much. 

(10-11-2021, 03:23 PM)Joelist Wrote: The OL is not the problem. Whether you like it or not there WAS a pocket on most plays and Burrow DID have time to throw. Remember of those 3 sacks Burrow himself caused one and one was Perine whiffing on picking up the blitzed (like he always does). The problem is the play designs and yes the play calling - also Burrow not moving in the pocket and holding the ball too long.

Where are the rollouts? Where are the traps and draws? Why are there no sluggos? Why do our screens suck (HINT: it has something to do with the formation telegraphing the screen and side of the field it is on)? This is probably the ONLY offense in football that does absolutely nothing to burn aggressive pass rushes.

Totally disagree with you. Other than 3 sacks, there were so co many hurries and many hits on JB that it was ridiculous. JB was a houdini a few times evading the sack. He very rarely had time to sit back and go thru progressions.

They need to get these balls into the hands of the WR's on quick hits, quick screen passes (not slip screend so to speak), etc. These WR's are excellent and these types of passes can be used as running plays because you have a DB out on an island and the WR is at least getting 5-6 yards many times. If that DB misses the WR is gone. They have to start pinching the edges more and using the entire field especially with a below average OL.

Green Bay had their 3rd string left tackle, second string left guard, second string Center in the game yesterday but their protection was better than a way more talented Bengals offensive line why?

The offense scheme is an issue.

(10-11-2021, 03:48 PM)Synric Wrote: Green Bay had their 3rd string left tackle, second string left guard, second string Center in the game yesterday but their protection was better than a way more talented Bengals offensive line why?

The offense scheme is an issue.

EXACTLY. Green Bay was using max protect a lot and Rodgers moves in the pocket also. Plus they ran routes designed to burn over aggressive pass rushing. 

(10-11-2021, 03:35 PM)higgy100 Wrote: Totally disagree with you. Other than 3 sacks, there were so co many hurries and many hits on JB that it was ridiculous. JB was a houdini a few times evading the sack. He very rarely had time to sit back and go thru progressions.

They need to get these balls into the hands of the WR's on quick hits, quick screen passes (not slip screend so to speak), etc. These WR's are excellent and these types of passes can be used as running plays because you have a DB out on an island and the WR is at least getting 5-6 yards many times. If that DB misses the WR is gone. They have to start pinching the edges more and using the entire field especially with a below average OL.

The ONE instance Joe Burrow had lots of time to throw he hit Ja’Marr Chase for a touchdown.

Burrow is still fairly statuesque in the pocket and that doesn’t help the line but he is playing at a good enough level to win



Like i said, the predictability of the offense and lack of talent on the line are the offenses bigvest issues.

When Burrow has time he looks like a top 5, QB

Because we’re running designed sets to get Drew Sample the football. Also counted about 15 plays with Irwin, Sample, and Uzomah on the field at the same time. Sad sad sad how Zac Taylor is bringing this team down.

Does anyone know how much time is left on Taylor's contract?

Was it 4 or 5 seasons?

It is baffling watching Taylor run his "scheme". In reality this offense should be running a simple setup:

3 WR (Tee, Chase, Tyler)

TE: CJ

5 OL

One RB (Mixon or Evans)

QB

It should be under center at least 80% of the time, and both run and pass out of this formation so you stop giving away the play selection. Use the WRs to force the defense to cover all three levels and also run the routes to try to make them go sideline to sideline. With our skill players we should be able to force defenses to defend the whole field - something Zac does not do. And on passing down the back stays in and learns how to chip to aid the line or pick up blitzes.

Doing this would stop some of the teeing off because we would stop being predictable. Also they need to learn how to run draws and traps and also how to run a screen without telegraphing it.

(10-11-2021, 03:48 PM)Synric Wrote: Green Bay had their 3rd string left tackle, second string left guard, second string Center in the game yesterday but their protection was better than a way more talented Bengals offensive line why?

The offense scheme is an issue.

Each team actually allowed 13 Total Pressures and Rodgers was under fire a ton in the pocket, though the Packers alleviated that some by using designed roll outs.  

That's not to say scheme isn't part of our problem, but GB really wasn't better in pass pro.

Lack of execution..

We've got a 2nd year QB who missed half his rookie year

We've got a 2nd year WR who has struggled with injury

We've got a rookie WR who is lighting it up, but still makes mistakes now and again

Our feature back stays injured

We have a 2nd rd TE who is absolute garbage

We made the mistake of drafted an LT with the intention of moving him to RG and the transition is going to take time

I get it's easy to hate on Zac, but he's not the one out there failing to execute; now we do need out GM/Owner to tell him to use his OC or hire one than he can use

My biggest beef is play calling. ZT calls these parellel to the line of scrimmage plays to get two yards. It just doesn't work. It's usually a piss poor angle to get the ball to them, they have to catch it and turn and square up to the LOS. The defender just needs to tackle agressively and it goes for one yard or no gain.

Bubble screens the same way.

Madden used to say all the time that receivers need to get past the yard markers, and it was a mistake when they didn't. I agree wholeheartedly. Not that you can't every now and again do the shallow cross or bubble screen (especially on a blitz), but this is his style. I just don't get it.

3rd and 4 and he runs the ball to set up the 49 yarder that McPherson missed. He's playing not to lose and it shows. Play to win.

(10-11-2021, 06:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Lack of execution..

We've got a 2nd year QB who missed half his rookie year

We've got a 2nd year WR who has struggled with injury

We've got a rookie WR who is lighting it up, but still makes mistakes now and again

Our feature back stays injured

We have a 2nd rd TE who is absolute garbage

We made the mistake of drafted an LT with the intention of moving him to RG and the transition is going to take time

I get it's easy to hate on Zac, but he's not the one out there failing to execute; now we do need out GM/Owner to tell him to use his OC or hire one than he can use

Right.  We've seen this happen on defense as well and people aren't blaming Lou for it.

I think on offense it's a combo of Zac, Joe, O-line, and other players not making plays that causes the offense to not produce to it's potential.

That being said I don't like Zac as OC anyway.

Marvin Lewis used to say that this game is pretty simple. You win 3rd down on offense, you'll likely win. You lose 3rd down on offense, you'll likely lose.

(10-11-2021, 06:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Lack of execution..

We've got a 2nd year QB who missed half his rookie year

We've got a 2nd year WR who has struggled with injury

We've got a rookie WR who is lighting it up, but still makes mistakes now and again

Our feature back stays injured

We have a 2nd rd TE who is absolute garbage

We made the mistake of drafted an LT with the intention of moving him to RG and the transition is going to take time

I get it's easy to hate on Zac, but he's not the one out there failing to execute; now we do need out GM/Owner to tell him to use his OC or hire one than he can use

I agree to an extent.  It's fair to criticize play calling in critical situations, like the draw to Perrine at the end of regulation, but there are just not a lot of plays that I can point to in this one where the DC beat Zac with a great play call.  4 dropped balls, 2 forced Int's, failing a sneak on 3rd and inches, and guys getting beat in one on one pass pro reps aren't on ZT.  

Some of the arguments presented in regards to play calling philosophy are chicken and egg at best.  More screens have been brought up, but we completed 2 of 2 screen passes for a total of 5 yards against GB.  Are we not running more screens simply because we suck at running screens?  

(10-11-2021, 06:35 PM)EatonFan Wrote: My biggest beef is play calling.  ZT calls these parellel to the line of scrimmage plays to get two yards.  It just doesn't work.  It's usually a piss poor angle to get the ball to them, they have to catch it and turn and square up to the LOS.  The defender just needs to tackle agressively and it goes for one yard or no gain.  

Bubble screens the same way.  

Madden used to say all the time that receivers need to get past the yard markers, and it was a mistake when they didn't.  I agree wholeheartedly.  Not that you can't every now and again do the shallow cross or bubble screen (especially on a blitz), but this is his style.  I just don't get it.  

3rd and 4 and he runs the ball to set up the 49 yarder that McPherson missed.  He's playing not to lose and it shows.  Play to win.

Lots of teams kill with these route concepts.  Problem is, our WR corps is very slow by NFL standards and can't succeed with them.  

(10-11-2021, 05:03 PM)Housh Wrote: Burrow is still fairly statuesque in the pocket and that doesn’t help the line but he is playing at a good enough level to win



Like i said, the predictability of the offense and lack of talent on the line are the offenses bigvest issues.

When Burrow has time he looks like a top 5, QB

I wish he would have acted a little more like a statue on the play he tried to dive head first for a 1st down…

(10-11-2021, 07:36 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I wish he would have acted a little more like a statue on the play he tried to dive head first for a 1st down…

Again.... Part of me admires that kind of determination, but you won't see a crafty veteran QB do that in that situation. I thought he'd learned his lesson last year when Fletcher Cox or whoever blew him up in the chest. Defenders at this level puncture lungs, break ribs, and hand out head injuries. He can't do that in the first half with the game not on the line. Hopefully someone got on his ass about it after the fact.

For what it's worth... Looked a lot like a helmet to helmet personal foul from my couch.