(10-10-2021, 12:51 AM)Benton Wrote: Isn't that a bit of a double standard?

People shouldn't judge Pitts because TE's take a season to get going... but do judge Sewell, even though tackles typically take 3-4 years to get going?

I remember an article years ago that had something to do with approximate value at different positions. OL didn't really hit their stride till something like year seven or eight. Which on one hand has me really hopeful with Jonah (maybe considering the injury history, he takes a smaller contract when it's time, but can play the majority of it). On the other hand, it means we need to invest a lot more in tackles, either by competing in FA or doing better at growing our own.

Big difference there.  Pitts is on pace for well over 700 receiving yards, which is still good production for a TE. Pitts is 7th in the league in receiving yards amongst TE's. He just isn't in the elite category that he was projected to, yet.  Sewell has just been flat out bad.  If both guys make a similar jump in year 2, Pitts will be up there in the elite category and Sewell will be a replacement level starter.  It's not a stretch at all based on what we've seen for Pitts to develop into the next Kellen Winslow.  It's a big stretch to see Sewell developing into the next Munoz.  

You're absolutely right about OL typically taking a few years.  I said in the debate during the off-season that Sewell would be a pick that paid dividends a few years down the road.  I researched years worth of 1st round T picks and made the point in the debate that the odds of Sewell coming in and playing at Reiff or even Bobby Hart level were very slim.  I also said that with Burrow on his rookie deal that we should be trying to win now and not spend the #5 pick on a guy who should become good in 2-3 years and peak on his 2nd contract.

However, the line that was repeated over and over was that we had to protect Joe Burrow this year, which meant taking Sewell.  People that said that don't get to then move the goalposts when Sewell is a sieve in pass pro his rookie year when he was presented as this huge upgrade as a rookie.  

(10-10-2021, 11:34 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Ja'Marr's been the best to date but to say he's been on another level than my man The Slim Reaper is a bit of hyperbole.. 

Smith has been a lot better on the outside than I thought he would be.  I had him pegged as a pure slot guy.

(10-10-2021, 11:34 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Ja'Marr's been the best to date but to say he's been on another level than my man The Slim Reaper is a bit of hyperbole.. 

Chase - 456 yards 5 TD’s

Smith - 314 yards 1 TD


I stand by my statement.

5 weeks into his career, I'ma say it's a resounding "no" when it comes to regretting Ja'Marr Chase. It's like watching Randy Moss on Thanksgiving of his rookie season... Except it's every week.

(10-10-2021, 05:58 PM)jason Wrote: 5 weeks into his career, I'ma say it's a resounding "no" when it comes to regretting Ja'Marr Chase. It's like watching Randy Moss on Thanksgiving of his rookie season... Except it's every week.

He’s phenomenal.

(10-10-2021, 06:06 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He’s phenomenal.

Davante Adams too... Good Lord!!! Two of the best in the business were on the field in Cincinnati today.

(10-10-2021, 06:11 PM)jason Wrote: Davante Adams too... Good Lord!!! Two of the best in the business were on the field in Cincinnati today.

And just think - - Chase is only 21…

Let that sink in for a minute.

(10-10-2021, 12:15 PM)Whatever Wrote: Big difference there.  Pitts is on pace for well over 700 receiving yards, which is still good production for a TE. Pitts is 7th in the league in receiving yards amongst TE's. He just isn't in the elite category that he was projected to, yet.  Sewell has just been flat out bad.  If both guys make a similar jump in year 2, Pitts will be up there in the elite category and Sewell will be a replacement level starter.  It's not a stretch at all based on what we've seen for Pitts to develop into the next Kellen Winslow.  It's a big stretch to see Sewell developing into the next Munoz.  

You're absolutely right about OL typically taking a few years.  I said in the debate during the off-season that Sewell would be a pick that paid dividends a few years down the road.  I researched years worth of 1st round T picks and made the point in the debate that the odds of Sewell coming in and playing at Reiff or even Bobby Hart level were very slim.  I also said that with Burrow on his rookie deal that we should be trying to win now and not spend the #5 pick on a guy who should become good in 2-3 years and peak on his 2nd contract.

However, the line that was repeated over and over was that we had to protect Joe Burrow this year, which meant taking Sewell.  People that said that don't get to then move the goalposts when Sewell is a sieve in pass pro his rookie year when he was presented as this huge upgrade as a rookie.  

Honestly, I'll never understand that logic.

'itll take a few years for a tackle to play up to this level... So don't take one.'

But to the first part, the point was to not judge Pitts because it takes a year... But Sewell is bad even though it takes longer to judge tackles. That's weird logic 

For some positive vibes:

Ja’Marr Chase’s huge 2019 season at LSU: 84 catches, 1,780 yards, 21.2 yards per catch, 20 TDs.

Chase’s 2021 NFL pace as of right now:

78 catches, 1,550 yards, 19.8 yards per catch, 17 TDs.

Sure he probably slows down some, but still holy shit.

Hell of a game from Chase (minus the drop). He's become a consistent bright spot each week.

I was never quite sold on Sewer the way I was with Chase. I thought he was highly over rated and believed Chase was as good if not better than Jefferson. I was kind of happy to take him over Sewel..

(10-10-2021, 05:57 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Chase - 456 yards 5 TD’s

Smith - 314 yards 1 TD


I stand by my statement.

Imagine my surprise..

Were those their stats when you made the statement you stand by?

He’s playing like Antonio Brown of a few years ago. Tough to stop a guy with deceptive speed like that.

(10-11-2021, 01:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Imagine my surprise..

Were those their stats when you made the statement you stand by?

Their stats at the time were still favoring Chase by a wide margin. Especially in TD’s and Y/C.

Imagine actually being annoyed about a player on your own team being much better than your draft crush…

(10-11-2021, 07:07 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Their stats at the time were still favoring Chase by a wide margin. Especially in TD’s and Y/C.

Imagine actually being annoyed about a player on your own team being much better than your draft crush…

"Draft crush" aside; not annoyed and clearly stated Chase is having better season. Just disagreed with the "another level" assertion; given Slim had more catches, similar yards, and the only game between to 2 to go over 120 yards.

If the stats favored Chase by a "wide margin" then why didn't you list them then?

(10-11-2021, 08:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: "Draft crush" aside; not annoyed and clearly stated Chase is having better season. Just disagreed with the "another level" assertion; given Slim had more catches, similar yards, and the only game between to 2 to go over 120 yards.

If the stats favored Chase by a "wide margin" then why didn't you list them then?

I already pointed out where the big difference was. TD’s (4>1) and Y/R. I don’t know exactly what the numbers where for the latter before yesterday, but they were significant the last time I had looked.

But anyway, I don’t fell like arguing over semantics. Whether I would have said Chase has been “much better” or “on another level” or any other similar phrasing you were going to disagree with me. I personally think he has been when you look at two of the most important categories for a WR; TD’s & Y/R.

You obviously disagree. We can just move on.

(10-11-2021, 08:17 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I already pointed out where the big difference was. TD’s (4>1) and Y/R. I don’t know exactly what the numbers where for the latter before yesterday, but they were significant the last time I had looked.

But anyway, I don’t fell like arguing over semantics. Whether I would have said Chase has been “much better” or “on another level” or any other similar phrasing you were going to disagree with me. I personally think he has been when you look at two of the most important categories for a WR; TD’s & Y/R.

You obviously disagree. We can just move on.

Sure..just stated saying Chase was "on a different level" to be a "bit of hyperbole", 

Catches are kinda important category too; some may think more important than YPC; but as you say. we can just disagree

(10-10-2021, 07:36 PM)Benton Wrote: Honestly, I'll never understand that logic.

'itll take a few years for a tackle to play up to this level... So don't take one.'

But to the first part, the point was to not judge Pitts because it takes a year... But Sewell is bad even though it takes longer to judge tackles. That's weird logic 

If you're picking Top 5, it's because your team sucks and needs immediate help.  If the choice is between an immediate impact player and a developmental talent with plus traits, you take the immediate impact player.  Sewell wasn't even polished or battle tested against much NFL caliber talent.

Sewell isn't bad because of learning curve.  He's bad because he's allowed 4 sacks and 21 Total Pressures in only 5 games.  He's a bad NFL OT.  He may one day become good or even great.  But he is currently bad.  If we had taken him and he was getting Burrow killed like he is Goff, I guarantee a bunch of people would be saying he's a bad pick and blaming Tobin, Zac, and the scouting department department for not seeing through the predraft hype and taking Slater instead.  

(10-12-2021, 12:19 AM)Whatever Wrote: If you're picking Top 5, it's because your team sucks and needs immediate help.  If the choice is between an immediate impact player and a developmental talent with plus traits, you take the immediate impact player.  Sewell wasn't even polished or battle tested against much NFL caliber talent.

Sewell isn't bad because of learning curve.  He's bad because he's allowed 4 sacks and 21 Total Pressures in only 5 games.  He's a bad NFL OT.  He may one day become good or even great.  But he is currently bad.  If we had taken him and he was getting Burrow killed like he is Goff, I guarantee a bunch of people would be saying he's a bad pick and blaming Tobin, Zac, and the scouting department department for not seeing through the predraft hype and taking Slater instead.  

No doubt. We already have a bunch of people wishing we had taken Herbert over Burrow. And Burrow is actually good. If we had taken Sewell, and he struggled here like he is in Detroit, people would be killing the team. Especially if Chase was balling out somewhere else, and our offense was struggling even more than it is now.

It’s obviously super early, but Chase could very well end up being the best player from this entire draft class, not just out of the WR’s. So far his biggest competition looks like Slater and Parsons.

Criticize the team for not doing more for the IOL in FA, sure, and maybe even for the Carman pick (again - still way early), but literally everyone should be happy about Chase. That pick looks like an absolute home run so far.

Now they believe Sewell would have struggled under the great "Pollack". The same people who believed we didn't need an oline upgrade because he was the upgrade.... "Interesting".

Chase is a beast, but the facts remain, Burrow has gotten slaughtered 3 out of the 5 games, and has been injured twice that we know of, and hospitalized, and his hospitalization didn't come from the big hit he caused himself.