We are 5-3 but really I would not count the reason being the Offensive Line. Our line has been very healthy, no doubt one of the most healthy starting lines so far in the league and even with that great health going into game 9, we are sitting at 10th in rushing average ( on pace to have a lower rushing average than last year) and 11th in sacks allowed ( improvement from last year but still on pace for over 40 sacks). The saving grace has been the lack of penalties but those stats are a disappointment and Pollack needs to move this group which actually is experienced overall to a better trend in 2nd half of season

2nd and short/3rd and short run blocking remains atrocious.

(11-01-2021, 07:11 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: We are 5-3 but really I would not count the reason being the Offensive Line. Our line has been very healthy, no doubt one of the most healthy starting lines so far in the league and even with that great health going into game 9, we are sitting at 10th in rushing average ( on pace to have a lower rushing average than last year) and 11th in sacks allowed ( improvement from last year but still on pace for over 40 sacks). The saving grace has been the lack of penalties but those stats are a disappointment and Pollack needs to move this group which actually is experienced overall to a better trend in 2nd half of season

How have we been “very healthy?” We’re already on our 3rd RG of the season.

As for the run blocking - the issue has been Hopkins and Carman. The other 3 are playing very well;

Jonah Williams, Riley Reiff and Quinton Spain are all Top-25 in run blocking grade for their position (V Good!)

Jackson Carman and Trey Hopkins are in the Bottom-10 (about 90 qualified Guards/Centers) in run blocking. Thats tough to beat.

— Andrew Russell (@PFF_AndrewR) November 1, 2021

We’re obviously still a couple pieces away. Hopkins just flat out needs to be replaced at this point. He’s a liability. Carman is likely going to get plenty of chances going forward (permitting his back doesn’t become an issue) considering where he was drafted, and the fact that he’s learning a new position. We’ll see on him. Very up and down so far, but there’s been some nice flashes. Particularly in the run game.

Your Pollack hate continues to be as weird as your Burrow hate. It’s almost like there’s something else behind it…

The O-line needs help still.

Hopefully Burrow survives the season intact.

For those saying "The OL wasn't good": the Jets had their 2nd-fewest pressures in a game this season (11) and win rate (44.7%) but they made the most of them with 3 sacks.

And they often came at the worst time, so they stick out. Don't let a few plays affect the overall play. https://t.co/7hIuhxE1We

— Andrew Russell (@PFF_AndrewR) November 1, 2021

For the record, when the Jets beat the Titans they produced a 70.2% win rate (!!), 6 sacks and 34 QB pressures.

The Bengals cut all that in half or better. Yes, the OL played well. Especially well enough to win.

— Andrew Russell (@PFF_AndrewR) November 1, 2021

And Burrow was 100% responsible for 1 of the 3 sacks. We need to figure out C and RG going forward, but these “I hope Burrow survives the season” takes are ridiculous (sorry Cards - but they are).

Some people are just not acknowledging how good the Jets front 7 are. It's always that the Bengals played badly, with no thought to the fact that the other team has good players, regardless of their record.

Trey Hopkins is currently PFF's worst (31st) graded center at 42.0

He's tied for the lead in sacks allowed (3) and is 25th in Pass Block Efficiency (97.4%)

The whole sack number thing is also hard to quantify. 20 sacks in 8 games but of those half were in the first two games. So, in the following 6 games 10 sacks. So the clip is 1.6 sacks/game or 34 sacks this season. The problem is they have had three not so good efforts but the other games have been pretty good. It's a work in progress.

(11-01-2021, 07:27 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: How have we been “very healthy?” We’re already on our 3rd RG of the season.

As for the run blocking - the issue has been Hopkins and Carman. The other 3 are playing very well;

Jonah Williams, Riley Reiff and Quinton Spain are all Top-25 in run blocking grade for their position (V Good!)

Jackson Carman and Trey Hopkins are in the Bottom-10 (about 90 qualified Guards/Centers) in run blocking. Thats tough to beat.

— Andrew Russell (@PFF_AndrewR) November 1, 2021

We’re obviously still a couple pieces away. Hopkins just flat out needs to be replaced at this point. He’s a liability. Carman is likely going to get plenty of chances going forward (permitting his back doesn’t become an issue) considering where he was drafted, and the fact that he’s learning a new position. We’ll see on him. Very up and down so far, but there’s been some nice flashes. Particularly in the run game.

Your Pollack hate continues to be as weird as your Burrow hate. It’s almost like there’s something else behind it…

Yes we have been healthy, look around the league, most teams have had multiple starters out game to game, we have not.. For Example of Williams,Spain have played 100% snaps, Reiff 98% and Hopkins 96%, hard pressed to find even 2-3 teams that healthy overall this season on the line . keep finding excuses you do well at that when someone who just you just love to death is questioned or held accountable but that is the norm ive figured that out.

(11-01-2021, 07:26 PM)Big Boss Wrote: 2nd and short/3rd and short run blocking remains atrocious.

I'd throw 1st and short and 4th and short in there too.

No way we can win a playoff game not having any short game at all.

The more concerning thing is we have really become too pass heavy. Our outside zone running actually has worked well but we are quick to abandon it early on. In the first couple games we were one of the heaviest running teams in the league but last couple we are now one of the pass happiest.

(11-01-2021, 08:01 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: I'd throw 1st and short and 4th and short in there too.

No way we can win a playoff game not having any short game at all.

Totally agree and if you watch Burrow this season to last season overall he is doing better not holding the ball and moving out of pocket.. plus we adding Chase which has opened up the offensive  where would our sack number be if Burrow was playing like he was last year in the pocket  and no Chase ?   

(11-01-2021, 08:06 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Totally agree and if you watch Burrow this season to last season overall he is doing better not holding the ball and moving out of pocket.. plus we adding Chase which has opened up the offensive  where would our sack number be if Burrow was playing like he was last year in the pocket  and no Chase ?   

I think Chase alone has won 3 of our games, hasn't he? Lol. At least 2 of them. 

I'd hope that this team can grab one if not two veterans along the interior at the deadline but we knew this situation could occur. They stood pat and went to war with what they had so lets hope the rookies are ready to play. They had every opportunity to get help before the start of the season.

(11-01-2021, 08:07 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: I think Chase alone has won 3 of our games, hasn't he? Lol. At least 2 of them. 

He for sure has had a great impact but teams will probably adjust to slow that down some, happens to move rookies even the good ones so if the Oline does not get better and Chase pace slows this Offense could be in trouble and back to my point of being healthy...what if our tackles go down, they played 99% of the snaps so far, how is our Oline going to fair with injuries if we are playing this way healthy....

Cincinnati is okay at 2nd and short, sitting at 15th in the league by success rate but boy howdy are they bad at 3rd and short. Dead last in the league at 27% success rate. They are 25th in success rate when within the five yard line. When Cincinnati needs to run, they don’t do it too well. A lot of these are small sample sizes so far this season, but still. It is definitely an area of weakness.

(11-01-2021, 07:49 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

For those saying "The OL wasn't good": the Jets had their 2nd-fewest pressures in a game this season (11) and win rate (44.7%) but they made the most of them with 3 sacks.

And they often came at the worst time, so they stick out. Don't let a few plays affect the overall play. https://t.co/7hIuhxE1We

— Andrew Russell (@PFF_AndrewR) November 1, 2021

For the record, when the Jets beat the Titans they produced a 70.2% win rate (!!), 6 sacks and 34 QB pressures.

The Bengals cut all that in half or better. Yes, the OL played well. Especially well enough to win.

— Andrew Russell (@PFF_AndrewR) November 1, 2021

And Burrow was 100% responsible for 1 of the 3 sacks. We need to figure out C and RG going forward, but these “I hope Burrow survives the season” takes are ridiculous (sorry Cards - but they are).

and claiming that an O-line played well why the Bengals only rushed for 42 yds on 15 carries for a whopping 2.8 yds a carry while only passing for 259 yds is just as ridiculous.  Actually more ridiculous because we have not found out if Burrow will last the season yet (he did not last year)but we do know the offense was dismal yesterday despite the points scored via the defenses supplied turnovers. So we definitely know you're wrong for sure and hopefully I'm wrong as well. But I do hope Burrow survives the season, love that kid.  

Rushing stats were minus Burrows rushing attempt that would have brought them down slightly more so even. Take Chase's 9 yd gain on run away and Mixon averaged 2.3 yds a carry. None of this equates to good O-line play. But OK we did better than the Titans who got their butt handed to them by the Jets as well, guess there is that..  Did the Bengals cut it in half from any of the teams who actually beat the Jets ?

Not even going to mention starting a drive out on the 1 yd line and going backwards and getting zero points after using 4 downs to try to score and get that one single yard picked up. Yes there incredible and I stand corrected and bow to your superior intellect, my bad

Would like to add that the Jets are not very good as well. 

Yet all this being said I am not down on the Bengals at all.

Still stand behind my preseason prediction that this team will be on the bubble for a playoff spot at seasons end. Hope they are on the right side and get in as I predicted as well.

(11-01-2021, 08:33 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Would like to add that the Jets are not very good. 

Their DL certainly is. I already posted the numbers of what they did to the Titans (you know - the team currently in 1st place in the AFC).

For the record, when the Jets beat the Titans they produced a 70.2% win rate (!!), 6 sacks and 34 QB pressures.

The Bengals cut all that in half or better. Yes, the OL played well. Especially well enough to win.

— Andrew Russell (@PFF_AndrewR) November 1, 2021

Right now we have a problem at 2 spots; C and RG. That’s a hell of a lot better than last year when it was all 5. To act like there hasn’t been improvement is disingenuous.

(11-01-2021, 07:26 PM)Big Boss Wrote: 2nd and short/3rd and short run blocking remains atrocious.

(11-01-2021, 07:33 PM)Go Cards Wrote: The O-line needs help still.

Hopefully Burrow survives the season intact.

Both run blocking and pass protection ARE better but compared to the last few seasons of awful offensive line play ANY improvement is visible to the eye. The line is playing better but are they good enough?

Absolutely not.

Both guys named Joe, Burrow and Mixon, aren’t getting enough from the offensive line yet. As Big Boss says, short yardage situations are iffy at best and Joe Burrow is still getting knocked around like a crash test dummy.

What I have yet to see in both run blocking and in pass protection or sustained blocks. On run plays guys push their assigned defender once then stand around. On pass plays they don’t remain engaged with their assigned defender.