(11-08-2021, 02:26 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: Just pretend we started 0 - 4 and have won 5 in a row to tie for 2nd place and 1 behind Baltimore.. now THAT sounds like a glorious to be made movie!

We're 2 behind Baltimore, but yeah, I guarantee everyone yelling "tear it down" would have taken it before the season began.

As to the oline: My current man crush is Darian Kinnard

The o-line people were right. The o-line is still bad. We kicked the can further down the road. Heck, we'll have work to do this coming offseason just to maintain this level of mediocre-at-best play.

- Reiff and Spain are free agents
- Hopkins is washed
- RG is a total question mark next year. XSF is bad and made of glass. Carman hasn't shown much.

So looking at all that, you may as well say we're going to need a complete overhaul.

All this doesn't mean we were wrong to take Chase. It was probably the right choice anyway. But all of what I said above is also true.

The line option is the same option we've had before: try to outbid for something proven (we've had mixed luck at that) or commit several draft picks and develop (we've had better luck, but it's a 2-4 year process). Ideally, to fix the line, you'd have seen those guys drafted the last couple years.

(11-08-2021, 02:26 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: defense was the most concerning
o-line was 2nd most concerning
drops and fumbles were 3rd.

in my opinion

Defense needs a playmaker. We don't have any. We have a bunch of solid and below average guys. No one elite. 

The INTs and fumbles combined with dreadful defense to get us multiple scores behind and throw the offense off balance towards the pass, which let the Stains tee off on their pass rush. It hung our O line out to dry, and as both Burrow and Taylor noted the backs missing their blitz pickups did not help. TBH not keeping Gio has haunted us this year - we would likely have 8 fewer sacks with him in there.

The problem is the OL is improved but it also is a work in progress with a new blocking system coupled with lack of experience in the depth chart and indeed at RG. As a result it gets exploited by more sophisticated DL schemes and the backs sucking at pass protection is no help. We BADLY need a starter quality veteran RG and C to give our draft picks time to mature. We also need to really crack down on the entire RB room on pass protection.

(11-08-2021, 04:00 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Defense needs a playmaker. We don't have any. We have a bunch of solid and below average guys. No one elite. 

Agreed. Logan was making plays for awhile, but outside of him we have maybe 2 ints (?), and we were dead last in fumble recoveries last I checked.

Before anyone says you can't help the other team fumbling, yes you can. It's called forced fumbles. Strips. Strip sacks.

(11-08-2021, 11:21 AM)ochocincos Wrote: While Spain and Reiff didn't have their best games, the two consistently worse spots on the OL this year are C and RG.
The Bengals incorrectly assumed Hopkins would get back to his good pass-protecting ways in time for the season.
Carman hasn't developed fast enough to solidify the RG spot and XSF is (yet again) injured.

Luckily, they should have enough cap to re-sign both Spain and Reiff, bring in another vet, and also spend a high draft pick to finally properly address the OL.

As frustrated as some have gotten because the team did well early in the season, it's important to realize that there has still been improvement.
No longer are we going in week after week assuming a loss. Now it's up in the air.
This team is probably going to teeter around .500 this season. They can then address the few positions they really need to in the offseason and should hopefully be a contender next year.

Good post.

Now if only we can remember this feeling come the offseason and not forget it again when we start seeing top elite prospects at other positions we would like (but don't necessarily need).

We were quick to forget this feeling after Burrow was injured when 100% of us called for Oline help. Let's try to hold on to it this time.

(11-08-2021, 11:21 AM)ochocincos Wrote: No longer are we going in week after week assuming a loss. 

If you weren't after the JETS loss, I think it's time to start. 

(11-08-2021, 06:46 PM)jj22 Wrote: If you weren't after the JETS loss, I think it's time to start. 

I'm still not assuming a loss other than maybe the Chiefs, Chargers, and Browns.
I think the Bengals, despite losing to the Jets, could still beat the Broncos, Raiders, 49ers, Steelers (since they already did), and Ravens (since they already did).

(11-08-2021, 06:44 PM)jj22 Wrote: Now if only we can remember this feeling come the offseason and not forget it again when we start seeing top elite prospects at other positions we would like (but don't necessarily need).

We were quick to forget this feeling after Burrow was injured when 100% of us called for Oline help. Let's try to hold on to it this time.

Always - always - always go BPA (unless you need a QB). If that’s a CB, which we also do desperately need, I’ll be all for going that route with our top pick. If the highest guy on their board is a pass rusher when we pick then they should take him.

Getting locked into one position and drafting out of desperation is how we ended up with Billy Price. Be aggressive on adding to the OL in FA, and that will open up the draft more.

And maybe if we’re lucky the BPA when we pick will be a stud Center anyway.

(11-08-2021, 03:32 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The o-line people were right. The o-line is still bad. We kicked the can further down the road. Heck, we'll have work to do this coming offseason just to maintain this level of mediocre-at-best play.

- Reiff and Spain are free agents
- Hopkins is washed
- RG is a total question mark next year. XSF is bad and made of glass. Carman hasn't shown much.

So looking at all that, you may as well say we're going to need a complete overhaul.

All this doesn't mean we were wrong to take Chase. It was probably the right choice anyway. But all of what I said above is also true.

The o line needs a significant overhaul in both the draft and FA. A quality interior o-lineman signed to a 3 year deal is preferable to a one year band-aid. The Bengals will not be a legitimate title threat until they field a quality line. The defense will need CB help and another pass rusher.

(11-08-2021, 07:21 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: The o line needs a significant overhaul in both the draft and FA. A quality interior o-lineman signed to a 3 year deal is preferable to a one year band-aid. The Bengals will not be a legitimate title threat until they field a quality line. The defense will need CB help and another pass rusher.

Agreed. I've been saying for several years that we need an offseason where o-line is priority 1A. We haven't had such an offseason over the last half dozen years with this problem.

I'm not talking about drafting a guy in round 2 and signing 1 decent free agent. Or drafting a 1st rounder and calling it a wrap.

I'm talking signing a couple really good free agents and throwing 3 draft picks at it (1st rounder, 3rd and 5th rounder for example). I want a slew of fresh faces on the line. A complete overhaul. Treat it like you have a franchise QB and this has been a primary issue for 6 years.

(11-08-2021, 07:11 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Always - always - always  go BPA (unless you need a QB). If that’s a CB, which we also do desperately need, I’ll be all for going that route with our top pick. If the highest guy on their board is a pass rusher when we pick then they should take him.

Getting locked into one position and drafting out of desperation is how we ended up with Billy Price. Be aggressive on adding to the OL in FA, and that will open up the draft more.

I understand the logic, but it's wrong.

Our line is crap. Our TEs aren't bad. If we go into the draft all 'bpa or bust' and take a TE, were ****ing dumb. 

If it's your turn on the board and you don't have a need slotted there, trade out.  But just taking bpa pick after pick year after year, you're going to end up overloaded at some spots and barren at others. That's how we got to where we are now: set at skills positions, barren in the trenches.

We need a line. We're at least two seasons away from it. If we keep drafting guys like carman, longer.

If we take a skill player in 2022 because it's the bpa, were going to keep going down this road of 'wait, why are we stinking, we've got all these elite guys!?'

(11-08-2021, 07:11 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Always - always - always  go BPA (unless you need a QB). If that’s a CB, which we also do desperately need, I’ll be all for going that route with our top pick. If the highest guy on their board is a pass rusher when we pick then they should take him.

Getting locked into one position and drafting out of desperation is how we ended up with Billy Price. Be aggressive on adding to the OL in FA, and that will open up the draft more.

True. We have to upgrade the holes in FA (legit fixes) so that we can go BPA round 1 and get an elite talent regardless of position (outside of QB).

(11-08-2021, 10:38 PM)Benton Wrote: I understand the logic, but it's wrong.

Our line is crap. Our TEs aren't bad. If we go into the draft all 'bpa or bust' and take a TE, were ****ing dumb. 

If it's your turn on the board and you don't have a need slotted there, trade out.  But just taking bpa pick after pick year after year, you're going to end up overloaded at some spots and barren at others. That's how we got to where we are now: set at skills positions, barren in the trenches.

We need a line. We're at least two seasons away from it. If we keep drafting guys like carman, longer.

If we take a skill player in 2022 because it's the bpa, were going to keep going down this road of 'wait, why are we stinking, we've got all these elite guys!?'

Exactly. This isn't the NBA, you can't blindly take BPA every year. There has to be a balance between need and BPA. If NFL teams always went BPA, a lot of these top QBs would drift into the 2nd round instead of being top 10 picks.

If we always went BPA, this team would be a disaster.

(11-08-2021, 07:11 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Always - always - always go BPA (unless you need a QB). If that’s a CB, which we also do desperately need, I’ll be all for going that route with our top pick. If the highest guy on their board is a pass rusher when we pick then they should take him.

Getting locked into one position and drafting out of desperation is how we ended up with Billy Price. Be aggressive on adding to the OL in FA, and that will open up the draft more.

This... BPA is how a badass roster is constructed over time. It's also kinda silly for people to say we didn't necessarily need the elite prospect we drafted. This offense has looked just like last year in the two games that opponents have figured out how to take him away. Now it's up to our brain trust to figure out how to free him up again.

(11-08-2021, 10:38 PM)Benton Wrote: I understand the logic, but it's wrong.

Our line is crap. Our TEs aren't bad. If we go into the draft all 'bpa or bust' and take a TE, were ****ing dumb. 

If it's your turn on the board and you don't have a need slotted there, trade out.  But just taking bpa pick after pick year after year, you're going to end up overloaded at some spots and barren at others. That's how we got to where we are now: set at skills positions, barren in the trenches.

We need a line. We're at least two seasons away from it. If we keep drafting guys like carman, longer.

If we take a skill player in 2022 because it's the bpa, were going to keep going down this road of 'wait, why are we stinking, we've got all these elite guys!?'

Yes were..


I've always been in the school of BPA in a position of need. We need about everything but QB and RB

(11-08-2021, 10:38 PM)Benton Wrote: I understand the logic, but it's wrong.

Our line is crap. Our TEs aren't bad. If we go into the draft all 'bpa or bust' and take a TE, were ****ing dumb. 

If it's your turn on the board and you don't have a need slotted there, trade out.  But just taking bpa pick after pick year after year, you're going to end up overloaded at some spots and barren at others. That's how we got to where we are now: set at skills positions, barren in the trenches.

We need a line. We're at least two seasons away from it. If we keep drafting guys like carman, longer.

If we take a skill player in 2022 because it's the bpa, were going to keep going down this road of 'wait, why are we stinking, we've got all these elite guys!?'

I don’t necessarily want to see them go for a TE in the 1st round by any means (and they won’t so it’s kind of moot), but if they sign several nice upgrades for the OL in FA they can draft whatever position they want with that pick. And like I said, I actually hope we go Center if a good one is there, but I don’t want to settle for our 2nd or 3rd choice at the position out of sheer desperation either.

And with FA’s you’re getting proven players that can help immediately. Very few offensive lineman come into the league and play at a high level right away. We’ve certainly seen some of the top guys struggle early on. Maybe we finally get lucky and hit on a Wirfs or Slater type, but with this teams recent history of drafting OL I wouldn’t count on it.