(12-13-2021, 04:58 PM)Joelist Wrote: Remember the PBS lease is up in 2026 and so far nothing on a renewal. If the Bengals came out and said they need a new stadium to remain what would your response be?

Katie has already said that PBS will be viable for the future provided upgrades are done.  It doesn't really sound like the Brown family is pressing for a new stadium.  That could change if some other city is willing to pony up for a stadium, though.

I am guessing the cost of renovations will fall somewhere around the 75/25 split between the Browns and Cleveland for the FirstEnergy Stadium renovations.  

Mike claimed they needed a new stadium to win.

They have an overall losing record since PBS was built (154-177-4) and obviously still no playoff wins. No practice facility. Why should the city make a huge commitment when ownership has (for the most part) failed to do the same, and didn't stick to their word last time?

I want them to just come down the Ohio River about 80 miles. We'll pay the $0.0002 tax per resident to make it happen.

Bet Newport, KY would make a play if Cincinnati won't. The Newport Bengals!!!! LOL

I live in Kentucky so wouldn't be my money... but like others allude to if you lose the NFL you won't get it back. I guess my hope is they reach an extension on the current deal at least through Burrow QB stint. If we can't win a couple playoff games with Burrow we never will.

In a word: No

Mike has plenty of cash, and I don’t live in Hamilton County.

(12-13-2021, 09:33 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Mike claimed they needed a new stadium to win.

They have an overall losing record since PBS was built (154-177-4) and obviously still no playoff wins. No practice facility. Why should the city make a huge commitment when ownership has (for the most part) failed to do the same, and didn't stick to their word last time?

I believe he said he needed a new stadium "to be more competitive". 

From 2000-2020, the Bengals were 22nd in the NFL in wins.  Las Vegas ponied up $1.8 billion for a stadium for the team ranked 29th in wins in that time frame.  Cleveland taxpayers paid for a new stadium and partially paid for stadium renovations for FirstEnergy Stadium.  To this day, it has never hosted a playoff game.  

That's just the NFL stadium economy.  If you're a big market, an owner with deep pockets will pay to put a stadium there.  If you aren't a big market, you're going to foot at least some of the bill.

(12-13-2021, 09:32 PM)Whatever Wrote: Katie has already said that PBS will be viable for the future provided upgrades are done.  It doesn't really sound like the Brown family is pressing for a new stadium.  That could change if some other city is willing to pony up for a stadium, though.

I am guessing the cost of renovations will fall somewhere around the 75/25 split between the Browns and Cleveland for the FirstEnergy Stadium renovations.  

I believe the estimates were $500M in renovations 

No, why, I live in Cleveland

if they renovate or build new a dome would be nice

(12-13-2021, 10:05 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: I believe the estimates were $500M in renovations 

The only numbers I've seen are a $214 mil estimate by The Enquirer based on average cost of renovations around the league.  Last year, the club and county funded a survey to make recommendations and estimates, but I don't know that those figures have been released. 

Another thing to look at is the Bengals have 5 different 2 year lease options which can keep them in PBS until 2036. The debt for PBS and GAB will be paid off by 2032, but the sales tax will stay in place, so both parties have the option to kick the can down the road a bit.

(12-13-2021, 10:01 PM)Whatever Wrote: I believe he said he needed a new stadium "to be more competitive". 

From 2000-2020, the Bengals were 22nd in the NFL in wins.  Las Vegas ponied up $1.8 billion for a stadium for the team ranked 29th in wins in that time frame.  Cleveland taxpayers paid for a new stadium and partially paid for stadium renovations for FirstEnergy Stadium.  To this day, it has never hosted a playoff game.  

That's just the NFL stadium economy.  If you're a big market, an owner with deep pockets will pay to put a stadium there.  If you aren't a big market, you're going to foot at least some of the bill.

You're right. He didn't say "win" he said the generic "compete" word

That said, he still lied. He pretty much blamed their losing on free agency, saying in effect that free agency changed everything, and they couldn't compete due to inability to sign free agents thanks to the old ugly stadium holding them back.

The new stadium changed very little with their approach to free agency.

The cities you mention didn't have an NFL team, so they were more desperate, and local fans didn't know what it was like to deal with 30 years of overall losing ways. So they're more likely to "just want a team".

Cincinnati knows it all too well.

I know another city would swoop in and gladly take the Bengals. I'm just saying that if the FO decides that's what they'd want to do, I'd let them, considering the results after the last go round.

I would build the steepest stairs possible in front of all the entrances and all rooms that the owner would enter to keep Old Man Mike Brown out. 

(12-14-2021, 12:07 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You're right. He didn't say "win" he said the generic "compete" word

That said, he still lied. He pretty much blamed their losing on free agency, saying in effect that free agency changed everything, and they couldn't compete due to inability to sign free agents thanks to the old ugly stadium holding them back.

The new stadium changed very little with their approach to free agency.

The cities you mention didn't have an NFL team, so they were more desperate, and local fans didn't know what it was like to deal with 30 years of overall losing ways. So they're more likely to "just want a team".

Cincinnati knows it all too well.

I know another city would swoop in and gladly take the Bengals. I'm just saying that if the FO decides that's what they'd want to do, I'd let them, considering the results after the last go round.

I mean, what does "win" really mean?  The SB?  The division?  One game?

Increasing player salaries were one of the issues he cited, but that also includes being able to resign his own players. 

But in any case, if you remember the Lost Decade, there's no way you can argue FA hasn't improved since PBS opened.  Toast Jones...Jeff Query...Eric Bienemy... dragging Barry Foster out of retirement only to have him go back into retirement before ever playing a down...Neil O'fnDonald... getting 1 decent season out of Richmond Webb before injuries ended him...Garrison Hearst was probably the best we got but doesn't really count because we got him on fn waivers.  Guys that make John Thornton look like Aaron Donald.  Guys that make Nate Clements look like Deion.  

(12-14-2021, 01:35 AM)Whatever Wrote: I mean, what does "win" really mean?  The SB?  The division?  One game?

Increasing player salaries were one of the issues he cited, but that also includes being able to resign his own players. 

But in any case, if you remember the Lost Decade, there's no way you can argue FA hasn't improved since PBS opened.  Toast Jones...Jeff Query...Eric Bienemy... dragging Barry Foster out of retirement only to have him go back into retirement before ever playing a down...Neil O'fnDonald... getting 1 decent season out of Richmond Webb before injuries ended him...Garrison Hearst was probably the best we got but doesn't really count because we got him on fn waivers.  Guys that make John Thornton look like Aaron Donald.  Guys that make Nate Clements look like Deion.  

Look at the 7 years of free agents we signed before PBS vs the 7 years that followed:

Before: Garrison Hearst, Ashley Ambrose (better than any CB we've signed since), Neil O'Donnell, Eric Bieniemy, Jimmy Spencer, Andre Collins, Keith Rucker, Derrick Fenner (800 yard season with 14 TDs in Seattle), Clyde Simmons, Myron Bell, Michael Bankston, Oliver Gibson, Richmond Webb, etc

After: Tory James, John Thornton, Reggie Kelly, Kevin Hardy, Kenny Watson, Kim Herring, Duane Clemons, Bryon Robinson, Carl Powell, Nate Webster, Jon Kitna (better than ODonnell? Eh), Antonio Chatman, Dhani Jones, Dexter Jackson, etc.

Where's the giant leap in quality?

As someone living in Hamilton County, there is absolutely no way I will vote to give more money to the Bengals for a new stadium. They have accomplished nothing since the taxpayers bent over backwards on a deal for Paul Brown Stadium.

They have a few years till the deal runs out, better pony up and win in the playoffs and show that things are different before asking for another hand-out.

(12-13-2021, 05:41 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Dayton is a shithole and Columbus, well, all I can say is Detroit is a better city than Columbus. Wait... That's a lie. Detroit is a slum but I just don't like Columbus. Although, if another city in Ohio was to get the Bengals, Huber Heights or Springfield would be a better place. Yet, has to be on I-70 or south of it. Anything north is stain country.

I think the Portsmouth area could legit support a team.  Would draw fans as far as Charlotte, WV.  And close enough for Cincy area fans.  Don't laugh it off.

The city would and I don't think the Citizens would have a choice. Downtown would lose so much revenue. I don't think either the Bengals or City want this relationship to end. Also their is new energy in the Family so hopefully this franchise is moving.

Anyways it's more of a scare tactic from the Mike Brown Loyalist then a reality that the team would move.
1.)!Where ever he would move too would not want to spend public money on a stadium or the city is too close to Jerry Jones to get a team.

2.)Here is another thing people severely underestimate the market of Cincinnati. 1.) It's a top 40 TV market ,2.)it has a ton of corporate money, and 3.) Football does well in the ratings here. Like exceptionally well Leonardleap had a thing on it during the last thread on this subject.

The only reason why this franchise isn't bigger is because Mike has no idea what he is doing and he didn't even try to market his team. The Failure of this franchise is 100% solely on him and know one else. He always had to be the smartest man in the room and he only hired yes men that supported his ideas.
Everyone acts like this guy is brilliant evil minded genius but in reality he is just a potato shaped moron who happened to be the son of Paul Brown.

(12-14-2021, 05:35 AM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: I think the Portsmouth area could legit support a team.  Would draw fans as far as Charlotte, WV.  And close enough for Cincy area fans.  Don't laugh it off.

It's not just about if they can support a team, it's also about if they would be cutting into surrounding teams markets. The owners still have to approve a new location.

Also.... Portsmouth, VA? Because that's way too small. (And 9+ hours from Cincinnati.) Charlotte, WV? Honestly this post is all kinds of confusing.

- - - - - -
NFL's best chance is trying to go North to Canada if they want new cities, or maybe Portland. Or simply go back to San Diego with private stadium funding.

(12-13-2021, 04:58 PM)Joelist Wrote: Remember the PBS lease is up in 2026 and so far nothing on a renewal. If the Bengals came out and said they need a new stadium to remain what would your response be?

IF....That magic word IF. 

Since the Bengals refuse to talk contracts during the season and refuse to try to resign Reiff or the still very young safety talent of Bates Motel, then I as a Fan refuse to discuss New Stadiums for same owners During The Season.  The old what goes around comes around.  Bengals are in a Play-Off Hunt, and if they can't talk contracts, we should not talk new Stadiums.  

Of course the Bengals are not talking New Stadium, so this all goes back to.....IF. 

I'm only concerned now with moving on to The At Denver Game.