I hear some Bengals fans say "but Zac needs 3 years with 'his team'". Nobody forced him to take the job, it as his team the first day.

It could be a mark jackson/steve kerr thing, although mark jackson appears to have been a better coach than Zac could be.

(12-19-2021, 12:55 AM)Wyche Wrote: One more thing cuz.....Sammy Wyche drafted Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks, and John Lynch...he went 7-9 his last season in Tampa. That cornerstone flourished under Dungy, won a SB under Gruden. If we get a new coach, we may replicate that....or this cat hits another cog like Sammy Wyche.

If only...

(12-19-2021, 06:04 AM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: If only...

If only ...

(12-18-2021, 10:24 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Speaking of which, it was just a short time ago everyone wanted Lou's head on a platter while he was run out of town on a rail.

We did add a lot in free agency the last couple years. But really hit some home runs. All the Dline additions have been good and I really like Awuzie, Hilton and Apple. Waynes has been barely able to get on the field and thats very disappointing. But hopefully he can stay healthy these last 4 games. 

Again I don't really think the culture has been changed but I do like the attitude of the players that we brought in but thats easier to have when your having moderate success. I also don't want to put any blame on just one player but William Jackson seems to be addition by subtraction.

(12-18-2021, 08:30 PM)higgy100 Wrote: He may have actually just rechanged the culture of this organization for the worst by running the ball twice in a row in overtime when he completely had San Fran. on their heels.

They were down cornerbacks, playing a cover 2 to pinch more coverage on the corners and the Bengals offense was hot. There's no question in my mind if they throw the ball they win that game in overtime instead of allowing San Fran. to do what they do best which is rush the passer against the a very avert offensive line. 

Now as far as the ramifications are concerned, they went from leading the division to a team that is now out of the playoffs if it were today. Now think about the dichotomy and the variance there. Every game the Bengals play including last week through the rest of the season is probably the most important game in the last 20 years of this franchise. Everything was written right in front of them and they can't take advantage of it because of a head coach that in my opinion doesn't have this team ready.

And to make things worse he had to come out in his press conference and bang his head wishing he could do those plays over again. At least stand by your convictions and don't give in and say we had those two run plays call nicely but we just missed a block. I'm watching this game on TV like everyone else and they had that entire San Fran secondary on their heels.

I completely agree. I think the people saying the culture change see the moderate success and more importantly the good play/attitude of our young players and free agents. Which is good to see but week in and week out we come out looking lack luster. Also when your head coach calls the plays on offense he has to own that and the offense just hasn't lived up to what the defense has done. Also yes I think we win if we continue to put the ball in his hands. Just saw some highlights from sunday and it makes me sick that the playoffs hang in the balance and our own head coach can't recognize that the way the game had unfolded in the end of that game we live and die with Joe Burrow there.

(12-19-2021, 12:23 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Am still on fence with Zac and am ok trying another year if he steps down as the play caller personally.

He has assembled a nice group of players and has cut penalties down drastically. Think with a few minor tweaks and add ons this team can be legit.

Am ok if he is replaced as well but really its not his fault that he was not ready to be HC yet when Bengals hired him. Plus until this season the O-line was so porous that not sure any coach could win behind that mess.

Although he personally has not impressed me yet the talent he has brought in I like a lot and he has the Bengals willing to spend in FA these days.

I just really get the impression that he wouldn't be willing give up play calling. Plus we don't know how Callahan would do. But if these last 4 games go the way I think they're gonna go thats about the only way I'd be even remotely okay with bringing him back. Just ask him to bring in an OC and give up play calling if he says no then it's time to move on.

You can’t change a culture without playoff wins


I’m leaning towards liking Zac right now but let’s be honest. Marvin Lewis was better his first 3 years

(12-18-2021, 04:13 AM)Wyche Wrote: Dude, we know you hate Zac, but you can't be serious. Marv had 3 straight losing seasons, the team was aging, the coaching staff was trash....so bad that Marvin had to take over DC. You forget the Ken Zampese fiasco? Fans quit showing up to games....this organization had one foot in the grave, and one on a nanner peel during 16, 17, and 18. For all intents and purposes, Marvin's career ended that January night in 2016. We opened the 2016 campaign allowing Andy Dalton to be sacked 7 times at NYJ. I think people forget how bad the team was....yet would win 6 games and screw up the draft. I mean we STARTED Ced Ole'! There was the horrible loss in Minnesota after the rumors Marvin was leaving...players quit that day. He didn't leave. The media was chastising ownership for keeping him around, it was becoming a total shit show!

2019 was roster evaluation with a new system, and that put most of Marvin's players outside of their comfort zone. Lewis constructed his roster differently (see slow, thumping LBs as exhibit A), and had different schemes.

Marvin was the better coach so far, no question, but I'm not gonna sugarcoat his last three seasons, they were trash.

I'm not saying it wasn't time for Marvin to go, I certainly thought it was and wrote about it several times. I do not believe any coach could have pulled that season out the way things were set up.

But Taylor hasn't been the answer either. Where would this team be right now if they had a decent staff?

With the exception of the OL I believe the front office has done more than I can ever remember them doing to get talent on the field. Yet it's as if the coaches have to learn everything first hand and there's no one there to teach them.

Possibly I should be more irritated with the front office for signing the cheapest coach they could find rather than spending more of that money for someone who had actual won before, at any level.

For the record, I don't hate Taylor, but whoever the coach is they need to be doing a better job of it. The team had a cake walk schedule to start the season, now they are 2-4 in their last 6 games. Things are trending in the wrong direction.

Possibly the team will make the playoffs and I'll need to accept that Taylor will be around for longer.

 

(12-19-2021, 08:56 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: We did add a lot in free agency the last couple years. But really hit some home runs. All the Dline additions have been good and I really like Awuzie, Hilton and Apple. Waynes has been barely able to get on the field and thats very disappointing. But hopefully he can stay healthy these last 4 games. 

Again I don't really think the culture has been changed but I do like the attitude of the players that we brought in but thats easier to have when your having moderate success. I also don't want to put any blame on just one player but William Jackson seems to be addition by subtraction.

As were Dunlap and Green.

It still entertains me to no end that this argument always boils down to Marvin vs Zac.

It is possible for both to be wrong. Marvin did a lot of good things here. But he had taken this team as far as he could.

Zac has no business in this role. He’s out of his league. AFC-N is garbage this year and he’s got some talent to work with and he’s still going to miss the playoffs.

This year is a big missed opportunity. And I do know that the Brown fam will see this 8-9 or 9-8 record as a big step in the right direction and grant him a 10 year extension.

(12-19-2021, 10:50 AM)Housh Wrote: You can’t change a culture without playoff wins


I’m leaning towards liking Zac right now but let’s be honest. Marvin Lewis was better his first 3 years

I am amazed that’s even a debate.

(12-19-2021, 12:31 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: It still entertains me to no end that this argument always boils down to Marvin vs Zac.

It is possible for both to be wrong. Marvin did a lot of good things here. But he had taken this team as far as he could.

Zac has no business in this role. He’s out of his league. AFC-N is garbage this year and he’s got some talent to work with and he’s still going to miss the playoffs.

This year is a big missed opportunity. And I do know that the Brown fam will see this 8-9 or 9-8 record as a big step in the right direction and grant him a 10 year extension.

Actually, do we even know how long Taylor's contract is for? Was it 3 years, 5 years???

(12-18-2021, 08:30 PM)higgy100 Wrote: There's no question in my mind if they throw the ball they win that game in overtime instead of allowing San Fran. to do what they do best which is rush the passer against the a very avert offensive line. 

Pass rush should not be an issue on 3rd and 3.  It is funny to hear people say that it would be impossible to stop burrow from throwing a 25 yard td pass when he can't even convert a gimme third and 3.

Plus you have to remember that Burrow is leading the league in interceptions and he had already thrown a horrible pick directly to a Niner defender earlier in the game that got wiped out by a penalty.

Throw in the fact that our defense was shutting down the niners and not allowed a TD in the second half.

Add that all together and there is no real problem with Zac running the ball to keep ahead of teh chains and set up the easy thrid down conversion.

(12-18-2021, 08:30 PM)higgy100 Wrote: And to make things worse he had to come out in his press conference and bang his head wishing he could do those plays over again. At least stand by your convictions and don't give in and say we had those two run plays call nicely but we just missed a block.

He never said he made a mistake.  Got back and listen to him and you will understand that if he had thrown the ball and it had nto worked he would have lost just as much sleep over that decision. 


This is a big problem with fans.  They act like when they watch the game live they make every correct call on every play.  They never mention the times they are calling for a pass and it gets intercepted or we break off a long run.  EVERYONE is an expert with "no questions in their mind" when they have the benefit of hindsigth.  In fact I am sure a lot of them were calling for us to keep throwing every down when we got inside the 30 but there is no guarantee that if we did pass we would have scored a td.  

(12-19-2021, 12:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Pass rush should not be an issue on 3rd and 3.  It is funny to hear people say that it would be impossible to stop burrow from throwing a 25 yard td pass when he can't even convert a gimme third and 3.

Plus you have to remember that Burrow is leading the league in interceptions and he had already thrown a horrible pick directly to a Niner defender earlier in the game that got wiped out by a penalty.

Throw in the fact that our defense was shutting down the niners and not allowed a TD in the second half.

Add that all together and there is no real problem with Zac running the ball to keep ahead of teh chains and set up the easy thrid down conversion.



He never said he made a mistake.  Got back and listen to him and you will understand that if he had thrown the ball and it had nto worked he would have lost just as much sleep over that decision. 


This is a big problem with fans.  They act like when they watch the game live they make every correct call on every play.  They never mention the times they are calling for a pass and it gets intercepted or we break off a long run.  EVERYONE is an expert with "no questions in their mind" when they have the benefit of hindsigth.  In fact I am sure a lot of them were calling for us to keep throwing every down when we got inside the 30 but there is no guarantee that if we did pass we would have scored a td.  

It is strange how you continue to harp on this semantic. You should go back and listen to Zac so you understand what Zac realized: he should not have taken the ball away from Burrow in OT and continued with the passing attack.

Toasty being Toasty by  with some unhealthy obsession to be right on a forum. 

I’m just here to say “Fire Zach Taylor.”

(12-19-2021, 12:31 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: It still entertains me to no end that this argument always boils down to Marvin vs Zac.

It is possible for both to be wrong. Marvin did a lot of good things here. But he had taken this team as far as he could.

Zac has no business in this role. He’s out of his league. AFC-N is garbage this year and he’s got some talent to work with and he’s still going to miss the playoffs.

This year is a big missed opportunity. And I do know that the Brown fam will see this 8-9 or 9-8 record as a big step in the right direction and grant him a 10 year extension.

I know a lot of the teams in the AFCN don’t look good right now, but there is still not a single team in this division with a losing record. And the Bengals are 3-1 in the division so even if it’s trash they are taking care of business in the division.

None of you were expecting playoffs this year. Most said we’d get less than 7 wins at the start of the season based on this roster. Now everyone wants to act like this roster is top 5 in the NFL or something and Zac is holding it back. It’s not. It’s a good team, borderline playoff team, and that’s exactly where Zac has them. Hell if we didn’t have Burrow throw 3 picks and Phillips muff two punts against CHI and SF we’d be in first place in the division with 9 wins.

(12-19-2021, 01:27 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: I know a lot of the teams in the AFCN don’t look good right now, but there is still not a single team in this division with a losing record. And the Bengals are 3-1 in the division so even if it’s trash they are taking care of business in the division.

None of you were expecting playoffs this year. Most said we’d get less than 7 wins at the start of the season based on this roster. Now everyone wants to act like this roster is top 5 in the NFL or something and Zac is holding it back. It’s not. It’s a good team, borderline playoff team, and that’s exactly where Zac has them. Hell if we didn’t have Burrow throw 3 picks and Phillips muff two punts against CHI and SF we’d be in first place in the division with 9 wins.

Cincy is 3-1 in the division. 2 wins vs a lousy PIT team, one against the Ravens that really had me believing we arrived, and then a disgusting home loss (what, 41-16 or something?) to the Browns. A real fetal position affair. So, sticking with whole numbers, it’s reasonable to infer we’d be 9-4/8-5 today had we only played the AFC-N. CIN is 4-5 against everyone else, with 2 of those wins coming against the worst teams in the league (JAX, DET) and we LOST to 2 more horrible teams in CHI and NYJ. Best non AFC-N win is, what - Las Vegas? Week 1 vs MIN?

And the Bungles easily could have lost to the freaking Jags, if you want to play the “if we didn’t do this and this and this and this we beat SFO” nonsense. We DID THOSE THINGS. We did them because those are the things the Cincinnatuh (Grandfather always called Cincy “Cincinnatuh”) Bungles do.

If this team was in the AFC-W this year it’d have 3-4 wins. Tops.

There is talent on this team but Lac has provided ZERO added value. None. In fact, I’ll even say he’s provided negative value.

Be honest with yourselves and the rest of us when you answer this question.

If Lac was available tomorrow, do you think any other team in the league gives him so much as a second thought?

(12-19-2021, 02:01 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: Cincy is 3-1 in the division. 2 wins vs a lousy PIT team, one against the Ravens that really had me believing we arrived, and then a disgusting home loss (what, 41-16 or something?) to the Browns. A real fetal position affair. So, sticking with whole numbers, it’s reasonable to infer we’d be 9-4/8-5 today had we only played the AFC-N. CIN is 4-5 against everyone else, with 2 of those wins coming against the worst teams in the league (JAX, DET) and we LOST to 2 more horrible teams in CHI and NYJ. Best non AFC-N win is, what - Las Vegas? Week 1 vs MIN?

And the Bungles easily could have lost to the freaking Jags, if you want to play the “if we didn’t do this and this and this and this we beat SFO” nonsense. We DID THOSE THINGS. We did them because those are the things the Cincinnatuh (Grandfather always called Cincy “Cincinnatuh”) Bungles do.

If this team was in the AFC-W this year it’d have 3-4 wins. Tops.

There is talent on this team but Lac has provided ZERO added value. None. In fact, I’ll even say he’s provided negative value.

Be honest with yourselves and the rest of us when you answer this question.

If Lac was available tomorrow, do you think any other team in the league gives him so much as a second thought?

Don't take too kindly to your facts and common sense round here, boy.

(12-19-2021, 02:01 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: Cincy is 3-1 in the division. 2 wins vs a lousy PIT team, one against the Ravens that really had me believing we arrived, and then a disgusting home loss (what, 41-16 or something?) to the Browns. A real fetal position affair. So, sticking with whole numbers, it’s reasonable to infer we’d be 9-4/8-5 today had we only played the AFC-N. CIN is 4-5 against everyone else, with 2 of those wins coming against the worst teams in the league (JAX, DET) and we LOST to 2 more horrible teams in CHI and NYJ. Best non AFC-N win is, what - Las Vegas? Week 1 vs MIN?

And the Bungles easily could have lost to the freaking Jags, if you want to play the “if we didn’t do this and this and this and this we beat SFO” nonsense. We DID THOSE THINGS. We did them because those are the things the Cincinnatuh (Grandfather always called Cincy “Cincinnatuh”) Bungles do.

If this team was in the AFC-W this year it’d have 3-4 wins. Tops.

There is talent on this team but Lac has provided ZERO added value. None. In fact, I’ll even say he’s provided negative value.

Be honest with yourselves and the rest of us when you answer this question.

If Lac was available tomorrow, do you think any other team in the league gives him so much as a second thought?

Wait? You're saying that we can have a young talented team capable of winning, and that the coaching is abysmal at the same time?  +Rep. 

This team has the youth and talent to be better than the 05 and 15 Bengals teams.  I just want to see them exceed the results those 2 teams got and not make the same sort of mistakes.

Must be nice to win only six games in your first two years so that a mediocre third year is looked at as improvement. Must suck for coaches that win like 18 in their first two years.