(12-30-2021, 12:29 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: If we invest in the OL then we can win with decent rookie RB's without investing a ton of cash at the position.

I think that's a smart move. After Mixon's deal expires, stick with a couple young RBs and go the path of not overpaying the position. Burrow/OL is where the money must be invested for the offense.

(12-30-2021, 12:24 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: So who are the players the Bengals say buh-bye to? Waynes and maybe Su'a Filo?

These 2 are easy; harder one is Hopkins and if we're really desperate for cap space: Boyd ($7.2 MIL)

I'd only cut Hopkins if we upgraded (James Daniels, Ted Karras, Ryan Jensen, Ben Jones) and I'd only cut Boyd if he wants a new/ more expensive contract

(12-30-2021, 12:29 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: If we invest in the OL then we can win with decent rookie RB's without investing a ton of cash at the position.

Without a doubt.  

And that would be the ideal investment.  Help the run game and the pass game!  That would keep the offense on the field longer wearing down the oppositions defense and resting the Bengals defense.. 

(12-26-2021, 08:42 PM)Savagehenry54 Wrote: No way ya get to have this many dudes out here ballin out.  What's our salary cap situation, who's contract is up soon, what are we doin?

Either these dudes are gonna choose to take a bit less than market value or somebody(s) leavin.

Bengals have 24 players set to hit FA, 25 if we include Reiff, who is likely to void his contract. 
Below are the following starters or impactful players:
Reiff (likely voiding his contract)
Spain
Bates
Ogunjobi
Uzomah
BJ Hill
Apple
Phillips
Huber
Clark Harris

Reiff, Spain, Bates, Ogunjobi, Uzomah, and Hill are going to all command decent money.
Bengals will almost assuredly need to make some cuts (Waynes, Hopkins, and/or XSF) if they want to retain all these guys or get at-par-or-better replacements.

(12-30-2021, 12:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: These 2 are easy; harder one is Hopkins and if we're really desperate for cap space: Boyd ($7.2 MIL)

I'd only cut Hopkins if we upgraded (James Daniels, Ted Karras, Ryan Jensen) and I'd only cut Boyd if he wants a new/ more expensive contract

Boyd is an interesting player to examine. He seems to be a leader on the team and is productive. Is he an old 27 or does he still have a few good seasons left? Could the Bengals get a cheaper WR and see them excel because of Burrow? Thus making Boyd expendable?

I hadn't thought about what to do with Boyd until this post. Tough call.

(12-30-2021, 12:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: These 2 are easy; harder one is Hopkins and if we're really desperate for cap space: Boyd ($7.2 MIL)

I'd only cut Hopkins if we upgraded (James Daniels, Ted Karras, Ryan Jensen, Ben Jones) and I'd only cut Boyd if he wants a new/ more expensive contract

I've been debating XSF (saves $3 mill) vs Hopkins (saves $6 mill).
I think I lean toward releasing XSF if just one, as Hopkins can play all the IOL positions.
I'd actually consider keeping Hopkins even if the Bengals brought in a new, better C, as the Bengals could either put Hopkins at OG or keep him as the first IOL off the bench to help better cover any injury.

Bengals can free up $20 mill in cap though if they move on from all of XSF, Hopkins, and Waynes. That could allow for signing a stud or two via outside FA to really take this team to the next level.

(12-30-2021, 12:42 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Boyd is an interesting player to examine. He seems to be a leader on the team and is productive. Is he an old 27 or does he still have a few good seasons left? Could the Bengals get a cheaper WR and see them excel because of Burrow? Thus making Boyd expendable?

I hadn't thought about what to do with Boyd until this post. Tough call.

Boyd probably likes it here he resigned here. Seems he may want to play last 7 - 8 years of his career here. A real leader team guy though he would have an outside shot of being Bengals all time receptions leader by then

The big question for me is whether they can pay Burrow, Ja'marr, and Tee all at the same time. Burrow is looking at 40 plus mil when he gets paid. ja'marr is probably in the 20 range if the trajectory goes the way we all want. Higgins is putting up big numbers right along side Chase, so you have to wonder if he'll pull a (mistaken) Marvin Jones or TJ move to get paid to be a number 1 elsewhere. He's probably an 18 mil per wr as well, and IMO his skill set is far superior to either of the two lost WR2s.

SO you'd be looking at nearly 80 mil plus to keep those 3 intact as a high estimate. That leaves 134 to fill out the rest of the roster. That cap number will likely increase to at least 220 when the time comes and the NFL catches up from falling behind during 2020 revenue-wise.

That's a nice group to build on, but the Bengals will need to draft their asses off and develop better than they have to remain strong throughout the roster.

(12-30-2021, 03:10 PM)samhain Wrote: The big question for me is whether they can pay Burrow, Ja'marr, and Tee all at the same time.  Burrow is looking at 40 plus mil when he gets paid.  ja'marr is probably in the 20 range if the trajectory goes the way we all want.  Higgins is putting up big numbers right along side Chase, so you have to wonder if he'll pull a (mistaken) Marvin Jones or TJ move to get paid to be a number 1 elsewhere.  He's probably an 18 mil per wr as well, and IMO his skill set is far superior to either of the two lost WR2s.  

SO you'd be looking at nearly 80 mil plus to keep those 3 intact as a high estimate.  That leaves 134 to fill out the rest of the roster.  That cap number will likely increase to at least 220 when the time comes and the NFL catches up from falling behind during 2020 revenue-wise.  

That's a nice group to build on, but the Bengals will need to draft their asses off and develop better than they have to remain strong throughout the roster.

To be fair, that's not really a problem until about 2025.
And by that time, they'll have all their other current big contracts done.
I'd fully expect that if the Bengals keep Burrow, Higgins, and Chase long-term, Boyd and Mixon won't be here.
The defense also won't have nearly as much money going toward it because they'll have to pay a much higher percentage to offense.

With all that said, the clear window for making a deep playoff run is through 2024. Go all in while you can with a cheap contract on your QB and top two WRs.

Our number 1 priority is to keep Burrow happy whatever Burrow feels the team needs in the form of personnel and coaching give it to him. If he turns into the QB I think he will he can cover up many flaws. You just need to keep him happy provide him support then stay out of the way.

(12-30-2021, 04:34 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Our number 1 priority is to keep Burrow happy whatever Burrow feels the team needs in the form of personnel and coaching give it to him. If he turns into the QB I think he will he can cover up many flaws. You just need to keep him happy provide him support then stay out of the way.

I guess I am miffed so many are concerned about 2022 to 2025 cap. There are so many creative ways to spend the cap now. I care about 2022, we have a solid core and a crap load of money + draft picks so I love the position the FO has us in. Why not applaud them, they have done outstanding managing the cap not only in 2021, but for a long time. How about some trust?

I cap remember last time we had to cut a guy due to cap issues.

(12-30-2021, 04:54 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I guess I am miffed so many are concerned about 2022 to 2025 cap. There are so many creative ways to spend the cap now. I care about 2022, we have a solid core and a crap load of money + draft picks so I love the position the FO has us in. Why not applaud them, they have done outstanding managing the cap not only in 2021, but for a long time. How about some trust?

I cap remember last time we had to cut a guy due to cap issues.

My only concern is Joe is so damn fearless someone takes a cheap shot and hurts him. Being a Bengal I dont know if he will get the Brady Mahomes Luck Brees treatment. Russ would but he oversells to many and Burrow has same problem

(12-30-2021, 12:42 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Boyd is an interesting player to examine. He seems to be a leader on the team and is productive. Is he an old 27 or does he still have a few good seasons left? Could the Bengals get a cheaper WR and see them excel because of Burrow? Thus making Boyd expendable?

I hadn't thought about what to do with Boyd until this post. Tough call.

If Boyd is content being option 3 in the passing game (4 if you count Mixon) then he's a bargain. I doubt we re-sign him unless we are on the cusp of a Championship 

(12-30-2021, 12:46 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I've been debating XSF (saves $3 mill) vs Hopkins (saves $6 mill).
I think I lean toward releasing XSF if just one, as Hopkins can play all the IOL positions.
I'd actually consider keeping Hopkins even if the Bengals brought in a new, better C, as the Bengals could either put Hopkins at OG or keep him as the first IOL off the bench to help better cover any injury.

Bengals can free up $20 mill in cap though if they move on from all of XSF, Hopkins, and Waynes. That could allow for signing a stud or two via outside FA to really take this team to the next level.

I think how we finish the year will impact FA decisions.  There are so many teams with 7-9 wins right now. If we lose to KC and at Cleveland (not unthinkable), we could be in position to draft a real stud.  Linderbaum. An OT/DL/LB/Edge  prospect who slips a bit if QBs/WRs get picked earlier (Cross, Ekwonu at OT, Leal at DT, Lloyd or Dean at LB, Karlaftis or Ojabo on the edge. 

If we pick later and all those dudes are off the board, we still have a shot at some CBs (Garnldner, Booth, McCreary), the best OG in the draft (Green), or perhaps a S if it really late (Hill, Brisker).  

OL would be my #1 priority in FA.  Get a STUD. 

(12-30-2021, 05:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If Boyd is content being option 3 in the passing game (4 if you count Mixon) then he's a bargain. I doubt we re-sign him unless we are on the cusp of a Championship 

and with playing careers being short, I'm guessing he's not interested in a lower value deal.

(12-27-2021, 01:20 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Fair enough. Thankfully we don't have to make that decision yet.

Yup! He has shown flashes to suggest he could turn into a really good player. Having more time to evaluate is a nice luxury to have.

Lots of very good players signed one year deals this past year meaning there will be a glut of talent available. Not everyone having a great season this year is going to become a superstar next. Plenty will want the hundred million dollar deals, but not many will get them.. There's going to be a lot of good free agents available after the superbowl..That doesn't even mention a lot of PS guys and college players and UDFA's..

(12-30-2021, 12:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: These 2 are easy; harder one is Hopkins and if we're really desperate for cap space: Boyd ($7.2 MIL)

I'd only cut Hopkins if we upgraded (James Daniels, Ted Karras, Ryan Jensen, Ben Jones) and I'd only cut Boyd if he wants a new/ more expensive contract

Would be shocked if they cut/Traded Boyd. You can tell he is one of the leaders on this team and he is one of Burrow's favorite Targets.

I agree with you I don't see them cutting Hopkins unless they get a clear upgrade in free agency.

(12-30-2021, 03:25 PM)ochocincos Wrote: To be fair, that's not really a problem until about 2025.
And by that time, they'll have all their other current big contracts done.
I'd fully expect that if the Bengals keep Burrow, Higgins, and Chase long-term, Boyd and Mixon won't be here.
The defense also won't have nearly as much money going toward it because they'll have to pay a much higher percentage to offense.

With all that said, the clear window for making a deep playoff run is through 2024. Go all in while you can with a cheap contract on your QB and top two WRs.

Burrow will almost certainly get paid after next year.

(12-30-2021, 04:54 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I guess I am miffed so many are concerned about 2022 to 2025 cap. There are so many creative ways to spend the cap now. I care about 2022, we have a solid core and a crap load of money + draft picks so I love the position the FO has us in. Why not applaud them, they have done outstanding managing the cap not only in 2021, but for a long time. How about some trust?

I cap remember last time we had to cut a guy due to cap issues.

That means you're not squeezing the most talent onto your team that you can possibly fit. It's not a good thing.

You're giving yourself less of a chance now in exchange for maybe possibly being in a better position 3-5 years from now. You think the Bucs care that they might have to cut some folks in a year or two when they have a SB trophy from last year and looking at potentially getting another this year?

They finally made a small motion towards actually trying to get more talent in the same cap space this last offseason and it led to a winning record. They have been not doing this for 30 years. What about that screams trust?