(01-07-2022, 02:22 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We have the 27th ranked pass defense in the league. Accrediting them as the sole reason our pass rush is significantly improved is beyond silly. It’s improved because they went out and got guys like Hendrickson, Ogunjobi, Hill, etc. And that’s where their minds where at when they drafted Ossai as well.

But sure, his injury is totally “Paul Brown punishing us”

Does that include RBs and TEs? Y'know. The guys that CBs don't cover? Mike White and Jimmy G didn't hit too many WRs when they tore up the Bengals but they sure torched the LBs and Safeties.

And you know why they're 27th ranked. Because, at 10-6, they are ahead more often than not thus forcing teams to throw more and 3 OT games also adds to your totals.

But since Burrow has survived the season with only 51 recorded sacks and the handful of sacks erased by defensive penalties, I guess that's success. Let's hope he's not the next Andrew Luck, who was sacked out of the league after only 174 sacks and also only 18 in his final season. They also fixed the O-line . . . but it was too late. This should be the end of Luck's 10th season, but instead, he only play 6 seasons in 7 years. His most times ever sacked in a season was 41. Burrow, in less than 2 seasons, has been sacked 83 times. That's almost half of Luck's total number in 60 less games(26-86).

No one is saying they don’t need to do more for the OL. But killing them for taking a pass rusher in the 3rd instead of a backup/developmental offensive lineman is just silly. If you want to criticize them for not doing enough it should be about what they did in FA.

This why some of you “OL OL OL!!!” guys come off as so over the top. Like literally every draft pick, every FA dollar can be devoted to one position, while neglecting everything else. That’s not a winning formula.

(01-07-2022, 02:49 AM)tms Wrote: He won't. He is who he is. He's not a project, he's a placeholder. I'm just happy he's healthy. I think he'd work better inside but we don't have the luxury of moving him there. 

There's nothing "Top 10" about this line,  tho- individually or collectively. We can't run from the fact that they led the league in sacks. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Jonah has allowed 8 sacks in 1050 snaps.  Thats not bad when you consider who he has had to go up against this season.  8 sacks allowed isn't all-pro but he's not a 'placeholder' this is his first full season you are acting like he's 32 he's 24.  An OL prime is late 20s.

(01-07-2022, 03:17 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: No one is saying they don’t need to do more for the OL. But killing them for taking a pass rusher in the 3rd instead of a backup/developmental offensive lineman is just silly. If you want to criticize them for not doing enough it should be about what they did in FA.

This why some of you “OL OL OL!!!” guys come off as so over the top. Like literally every draft pick, every FA dollar can be devoted to one position, while neglecting everything else. That’s not a winning formula.

The good news about this is other than re-signing Ogun and BJH, cutting Waynes and signing another solid corner we CAN focus heavy resources on the OL.  In a way im glad we are dead last in sacks given up.  It will apply more pressure to the FO to address the clear weakness of the team.

(01-07-2022, 03:33 AM)BurrowTheGoat Wrote: Jonah has allowed 8 sacks in 1050 snaps.  Thats not bad when you consider who he has had to go up against this season.  8 sacks allowed isn't all-pro but he's not a 'placeholder' this is his first full season you are acting like he's 32 he's 24.  An OL prime is late 20s.

He's obviously not the weakest link but he is a part of a Bottom 5 line in the NFL. That's a fact. I wouldn't look too closely at any of their numbers as individuals; they've all struggled at different points this season. Also, I wouldn't overstate the importance of blindside protectors anymore. They're not as crucial as they used to be, what with D-lines and schemes more variable than they've ever been. 

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind Jonah Williams. But he's not cream of the crop. The line is fundamentally flawed and he's been the only consistent piece. And I stand by the fact that he's not a project. He didn't come in off a mediocre college team and get swung to the other side, if not another position (i.e. D'Ante Smith).  Williams played three solid years at an elite school. I'd say his skillset's pretty polished, for better or worse. He won't reinvent himself at this point. 

You said Top 10. I just said he won't get there. We'll see.

(01-07-2022, 03:00 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote:  Let's hope he's not the next Andrew Luck, who was sacked out of the league after only 174 sacks and also only 18 in his final season.

Andrew Luck was never really sacked a lot.  He was injury prone.  His career sack percentage of 5.0% would actually be top ten best in the league this year.  He was never sacked more than 41 times in a season.

Meanwhile in 8 years from 2013 to 2020 Russell Wilson was never once sacked LESS THAN 41 times.  He averaged over 45 sacks per year, but never missed a single game with injury, posted a 101.8 passer rating, and averaged 11 wins per season.

Do we need to improve our pass blocking?  Yes.  Is it an end-of-the-world death sentence for Burrow if we don't? No.

Burrow will always have high sack numbers because of how long he holds onto the ball, but last year he was taking a lot of sacks despite just dinking and dunking short passes.  This year he is getting sacked a lot but he has more time to make plays.  Last year we were dead last in converting 3rd and long (6+yds).  This year we are 8th.  Last year Burrow was 28th in yards per completion.  This year he is #1 in the league.

(01-06-2022, 10:32 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Ossai's injury was Paul Brown reaching down, telling his son "WTF don't you understand about needing O-line?"

Seriously.

Great player.
Fell to them.
Still should have gone o-line.

You sign Hendrickson.
You extend Hubbard.
Ossai is a luxury pick when you are loaded at every position. The Bengals were not even close to being in this situation.

Pass rush wasn't the problem last year. The pass rush improved the instant LeShaun Sims put Cincinnati in his rear view mirror. Cam Sample was also unneeded as was that fat slob Shelvin, who has done absolutely NOTHING in his brief appearances.

Hopefully, Ossai will wind up being a great player, but it would be nice if Cincinnati actually paid attention to their own ***** roster when trying to put one together.

Respectfully disagree.  The best teams are built by taking the BEST player available and not drafting for need (with need being the tie-breaker).    It's why Chase was the right pick at 1 and why Price was the wrong pick at 1 several years ago.   

(01-07-2022, 11:00 AM)Dr.Z Wrote: Respectfully disagree.  The best teams are built by taking the BEST player available and not drafting for need (with need being the tie-breaker).    It's why Chase was the right pick at 1 and why Price was the wrong pick at 1 several years ago.   

This... Free agency is for needs, and thankfully, they've finally been utilizing it.

(01-07-2022, 03:00 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Does that include RBs and TEs? Y'know. The guys that CBs don't cover? Mike White and Jimmy G didn't hit too many WRs when they tore up the Bengals but they sure torched the LBs and Safeties.

And you know why they're 27th ranked. Because, at 10-6, they are ahead more often than not thus forcing teams to throw more and 3 OT games also adds to your totals.

But since Burrow has survived the season with only 51 recorded sacks and the handful of sacks erased by defensive penalties, I guess that's success. Let's hope he's not the next Andrew Luck, who was sacked out of the league after only 174 sacks and also only 18 in his final season. They also fixed the O-line . . . but it was too late. This should be the end of Luck's 10th season, but instead, he only play 6 seasons in 7 years. His most times ever sacked in a season was 41. Burrow, in less than 2 seasons, has been sacked 83 times. That's almost half of Luck's total number in 60 less games(26-86).

Yes we absolutely have to be aggressive trying to fix the oline. I would like to see us address this in free agency and the draft. I liked Rieff this year but we shouldn't be counting on him with him ending his year with an ankle injury and not under contract next season.

(01-07-2022, 11:00 AM)Dr.Z Wrote: Respectfully disagree.  The best teams are built by taking the BEST player available and not drafting for need (with need being the tie-breaker).    It's why Chase was the right pick at 1 and why Price was the wrong pick at 1 several years ago.   

I always liked Price and never really understood all the hate. When he was the starte for any lenght of time we would seem to run the ball well. But I admittedly don't focus a lot on the oline so I would trust the coaches and even fans on here. But now I saw he's the 7th ranked center in the league with the Giants so I'm not so sure anymore. 

I would seriously push to extend Jonah this off-season. He is only 24 and is only going to get better. You can lock him up on a cheaper contract before he really hits his prime and is priced higher.

(01-07-2022, 10:31 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Andrew Luck was never really sacked a lot.  He was injury prone.  His career sack percentage of 5.0% would actually be top ten best in the league this year.  He was never sacked more than 41 times in a season.

Meanwhile in 8 years from 2013 to 2020 Russell Wilson was never once sacked LESS THAN 41 times.  He averaged over 45 sacks per year, but never missed a single game with injury, posted a 101.8 passer rating, and averaged 11 wins per season.

Do we need to improve our pass blocking?  Yes.  Is it an end-of-the-world death sentence for Burrow if we don't? No.

Burrow will always have high sack numbers because of how long he holds onto the ball, but last year he was taking a lot of sacks despite just dinking and dunking short passes.  This year he is getting sacked a lot but he has more time to make plays.  Last year we were dead last in converting 3rd and long (6+yds).  This year we are 8th.  Last year Burrow was 28th in yards per completion.  This year he is #1 in the league.

The Colt's offensive line was bad, but Andrew Luck's biggest problem was Andrew Luck. The dude played way too recklessly. 

This is what worries me about Burrow. He plays pretty damn reckless. He has toned it down as the season has gone on, but he was taking some serious hits last year and at the beginning of this year. 

You could argue this is why Brady has lasted so long. He doesn't play reckless. He avoids hits as much as possible and if he even feels pressure in the pocket he basically just falls down to the ground. 

(01-07-2022, 02:55 AM)J24 Wrote: 1.) You need both pressure and coverage to get sacks. It's not a one or the other situation.

2.) We signed Rief in free agency, resigned Spain, and drafted 3 players on the Offensive line in 2022. To say we ignored the Offensive Line is a bit ridiculous.

3.) You need to have a 8-9 man rotation on the defensive line to be good. So adding a guy like Oassi should be a very good thing for the us in the future.

1) I'm fully aware of that. I pointed out that they had pressure last year, but no coverage.

2) "To say we ignored the Offensive Line is a bit ridiculous." Totally ridiculous. Especially since I didn't say that. This was touted as the deepest O-line draft in years, possible starters into round 4 . . . they walked away with Jackson Carman, who's been an on field headache that showed up out of shape, a developmental T that has barely seen the field and a Center who has looked like the old NFL Europe level at best. Keep in mind, the franchise was in rehab with a shredded knee when they made these decisions. I always expect them to miss on a few picks, which is why I wanted them to treat O-line like they treated LB in the 2020 draft. I think they killed it in that draft. A total of 2 starting positions in a perennially weak position that they already have a veteran to start in Bynes along with 2nd year LB Pratt? Well, then. Draft 3 of them MFers and make sure they were all team captains in college.

I certainly didn't want them to go all 2021 Anaheim Angels and draft all O-line(ALL 20 Angels draft picks were pitchers), I just wanted them to pile up good camp bodies and let the cream rise to the top. Drafting 1 of your first 5 picks for your weakest position group after failing in FA is not a recipe for success.

3) Sorry, but that's just stating the obvious. It doesn't sound like it, but I actually look forward to seeing him next year. My main problem is, that they had a ton of FA additions on defense and still chose to make 3 of their first 5 picks defense, 2, of which, Ossai and Shelvin, only contributed a handful of snaps. And in those limited snaps, Shelvin had zero push and looked like an out of shape fat kid with no technique that finally met the first person in his life that's stronger than him. Very disappointed in his effort.

If they re-sign Reiff and Spain (I expect both to happen) and grab a FA guard to stop the bleeding while Carman and the rest of the draftees mature in their game, Burrow will absolutely carve the league up next year.

I like Jonah Williams at LT,and I believe he has a good work ethic and will continue to get better.He’s still very young.I’m sure glad he has worked out,and looks to have a bright future with this team.Maybe the Bengals luck will change on their many unsuccessful attempts at building an OL.For the most part,it’s been disastrous so far.

I hope they resign Quinton Spain,as I believe,overall,he’s been our best performing O-lineman this year.

(01-07-2022, 02:30 PM)Sled21 Wrote: If they re-sign Reiff and Spain (I expect both to happen) and grab a FA guard to stop the bleeding while Carman and the rest of the draftees mature in their game, Burrow will absolutely carve the league up next year.

I totally agree with going after a FA guard.And I don’t mean average,but pro bowl caliber Guard.Burrow deserves it.I know they might think they have some up and coming prospects,and maybe they do,but I wouldn’t take any chances,I’d go after a sure thing,and resolve that issue once and for all.

(01-07-2022, 02:25 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote:  Drafting 1 of your first 5 picks for your weakest position group after failing in FA is not a recipe for success.

Signing the tenth highets paid RT in the league is not "failing" at free agency.

(01-07-2022, 02:25 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote:  I wanted them to treat O-line like they treated LB in the 2020 draft. I think they killed it in that draft.

So LBs in the 3rd and 4th round is "killing" but O-linemen in the 2nd and 4th rounds is "failure"?

Seriously?

(01-07-2022, 03:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Signing the tenth highets paid RT in the league is not "failing" at free agency.

I shouldn't take the bait because all you desperately want is attention but WTH. When there are 5 question marks in the position group and your QB is healing from taking a hit, yes it's a failure. Ask Cosmo. It's funny how he says they failed the o-line in FA. If only there was a way or an event for teams to gather up players after FA.

(01-07-2022, 03:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So LBs in the 3rd and 4th round is "killing" but O-linemen in the 2nd and 4th rounds is "failure"?

Seriously?

As per your pathetic usual, cut out key info and then take it completely out of context. I already stated that there are only 2 starters at LB and they already had a vet and a 2nd year player for those spots . . . they drafted three and filled out their LB room. Wilson and ADG got quite a few snaps as backups.

The o-line was an obvious weakness with 5 starting spots, not 2 and their three pickups are all questionable with minimal contribution.

There. I responded to you. You should be all giddy now.

(01-07-2022, 03:53 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote:  Wilson and ADG got quite a few snaps as backups.

Neither Wilson nor ADG played as many snaps as Carman did this year, and neither one of them looked impressive at all.

It is ridiculous to say a rookie has to contribute immediately in order to be a good pick and then whine about not taking a guy in the third round who would have been nothing more than a back up.

It is ridiculous to say that Wilson and ADG were great picks even though they did not look good as rookies then say that the guys we drafted this years are bad picks because they don't look good as rookies.