If Taylor wins this Saturday. How may coaches would have been given a 3rd season after his first 2? No other team in the league more than likely. Sometimes in this now world we live in patience pays off.

(01-14-2022, 03:24 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: If Taylor wins this Saturday. How may coaches would have been given a 3rd season after his first 2? No other team in the league more than likely. Sometimes in this now world we live in patience pays off.

I have a granddaughter named Patience. Oh boy is she a handful.

Taylor may not have lasted with several other teams but I'm glad they gave him some leeway. It would have been tough to turn this team around in 2. Makes me think they had meetings and ZT laid it out there what it would take. Of course, that may be BS because being an inexperienced coach himself, how would he know?

(01-14-2022, 03:28 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I have a granddaughter named Patience. Oh boy is she a handful.

Taylor may not have lasted with several other teams but I'm glad they gave him some leeway. It would have been tough to turn this team around in 2. Makes me think they had meetings and ZT laid it out there what it would take. Of course, that may be BS because being an inexperienced coach himself, how would he know?

Just seeing guys like Florez and Culley given no time teams stay in constant upheaval and turmoil it cant be healthy and condusive to winning

(01-14-2022, 03:28 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I have a granddaughter named Patience. Oh boy is she a handful.

Taylor may not have lasted with several other teams but I'm glad they gave him some leeway. It would have been tough to turn this team around in 2. Makes me think they had meetings and ZT laid it out there what it would take. Of course, that may be BS because being an inexperienced coach himself, how would he know?

MB has been around long enough to know it sometimes takes 3 years, and changing coaches puts you back at square one.

(01-14-2022, 03:24 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: If Taylor wins this Saturday. How may coaches would have been given a 3rd season after his first 2? No other team in the league more than likely. Sometimes in this now world we live in patience pays off.

You do have to give props to Mike Brown.
It was very easy (and logical) to move on from Taylor after last year.
He took over a 6-10 team and had worse seasons two years in a row.
Taylor must have done a good job selling Brown (and the rest of the FO) on his long-term vision and gave them enough evidence to convince them to keep him despite bad performance.
It's paid off this year, and hopefully continues beyond Saturday.

True

but part of why he may have gotten a longer leash is per the mess he walked into here in Cincinnati.

(01-14-2022, 03:32 PM)Go Cards Wrote: True

but part of why he may have gotten a longer leash is per the mess he walked into here in Cincinnati.

Some on here will argue that he didn't. But I agree.

A Blind squirrel found a nut!

(01-14-2022, 03:24 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: If Taylor wins this Saturday. How may coaches would have been given a 3rd season after his first 2? No other team in the league more than likely. Sometimes in this now world we live in patience pays off.

The Browns gave Hue Jackson a 3rd season after a 1-31 start, and they're supposedly too quick to fire coaches according to some.

I'll just say this:

Patience to keep a coach for a 3rd year during a rebuild? Probably smart.

Patience to keep a HC with 0 playoff wins for 16 years? Terrible.
Patience to keep Bratkowski for a decade? Terrible.
Patience to keep guys like Paul Alexander for 25 years? Blech.
Patience/stubbornness to keep making your players practice outdoors in snowy weather (even before indoor playoff games)? Inexcusable.

Good on the FO for getting this one right, but that doesn't = Mike's patience is always a good thing.

(01-14-2022, 03:49 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The Browns gave Hue Jackson a 3rd season after a 1-31 start, and they're supposedly too quick to fire coaches according to some.

I'll just say this:

Patience to keep a coach for a 3rd year during a rebuild? Probably smart.

Patience to keep a HC with 0 playoff wins for 16 years? Terrible.
Patience to keep Bratkowski for a decade? Terrible.
Patience to keep guys like Paul Alexander for 25 years? Blech.
Patience/stubbornness to keep making your players practice outdoors in snowy weather (even before indoor playoff games)? Inexcusable.

Good on the FO for getting this one right, but that doesn't = Mike's patience is always a good thing.

Yup.

I also think that if they had finished 8-9 or something like that he still would not have gotten the axe but thankfully we will never know.

Maybe the biggest factor in him getting a long leash is that Burrow likes him. You can’t underestimate how much they value Burrow and what he think and he has always backed Zac since he’s been here.

I think almost every coach would get a 3rd year. They were well on their way to a 7-8 win season if Burrow doesn't get hurt.

The only reason a coach doesn't get a 3rd year is if he's a complete joke or he loses the team. Zac has always had the team, so I never thought it was a question.

I'd say it's a good story and a cautionary tale on firing coaches too quick. I'll also say ZT my be the exception and not the rule. Yall know I just talk just to talk, but does anyone have any data to back up how many HC's after the start ZT had actually turn it around? Maybe not since I guess the point is they don't typically get the chance.

I think Owners should take note on giving a new coach time to establish their culture, but I'm not sure the results are always this successful.

I think it's a little more to it. What did we see (ignoring record) that led Mike to be so patient? Owners have to see something I would think. The supposed locker room fallout rumors probably didn't help ZT. Losing Burrow may have given him another shot since Burrow did show something early on. Beating Pittsburgh on National TV, and closing 2020 relatively strong probably helped. If those 4 wins came early in the year and the year ended in a losing streak (ignoring Burrow's injury for a second) then the record would have looked different. Not having the offseason in 2020 may have helped (how many first/second year coaches were fired after 2020, I can't remember). 2019 really shouldn't have counted since he was saddled with Marvin's roster. Some of that worked in his favor.

That doesn't explain some of the other firings. I was shocked that Dolphins fired their HC. But he ran through OC's and didn't manage Tua well with benching him as a rookie and messing with his confidence etc. Where as ZT stayed pretty even kill and never really showed signs of disfunction. Giants coach was just a mess, and that team just kept getting worse. Bronco's never gave their coach a QB, and really they were only a QB away. He may have deserved patience. Jags a mess. Houston def did their HC wrong. I think we can say there were some Owners that could have used some patience. But can we say that it turns out as well as it has for us? Enough to say they should learn a little something from MB?

(01-14-2022, 03:30 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Just seeing guys like Florez and Culley given no time teams stay in constant upheaval and turmoil it cant be healthy and condusive to winning

Flores got canned over spats with Tua and management, not performance.

I think Zac may have gotten a longer leash with teams than our fans think. Most people, especially league execs, realize that this team was a shit show the last two years Marvin was here and into Zac's first year. The players fit Marv's system well enough to win 5-7 games and **** us out of the top draft pick. This was always going to be a lengthy rebuild. Most fans just didn't realize it, or wouldn't accept it. 

(01-14-2022, 03:28 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I have a granddaughter named Patience. Oh boy is she a handful.

Taylor may not have lasted with several other teams but I'm glad they gave him some leeway. It would have been tough to turn this team around in 2. Makes me think they had meetings and ZT laid it out there what it would take. Of course, that may be BS because being an inexperienced coach himself, how would he know?

Burrow says it was Zac's detailed vision and plan that won him over.

(01-14-2022, 03:28 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I have a granddaughter named Patience. Oh boy is she a handful.

Taylor may not have lasted with several other teams but I'm glad they gave him some leeway. It would have been tough to turn this team around in 2. Makes me think they had meetings and ZT laid it out there what it would take. Of course, that may be BS because being an inexperienced coach himself, how would he know?

Well having to deal with the dumpster fire Marvin Lewis kinda left for ZT was not easy.

But I guess you could say that with any team hiring a new coach.

(01-14-2022, 04:48 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I think almost every coach would get a 3rd year.  They were well on their way to a 7-8 win season if Burrow doesn't get hurt.
 

Uh, no they were not.

You all know I was not impressed with Zac last year, but with all the injuries last year we did not have much of a chance to do anything.  Our O-line was decimated.  We had 11 different starters in bout 10 different combination.  Our #5-#7 CBs combined to play more snaps than every other CB except Jackson.  And our DTs were invisible.

Good teams often have better back up players, but last year we were playing back ups to back ups.  No team has good talent that deep on the roster.

I think most teams would have given him another year based on how bad we were hit with injury last year.

(01-14-2022, 03:32 PM)Go Cards Wrote: True

but part of why he may have gotten a longer leash is per the mess he walked into here in Cincinnati.

Yep, we were trash in the trenches when Taylor came in, trash. Good luck winning with that.

Took 3 years to get the trenches somewhat serviceable, now we are winning. Good on the FO being patient as the OP said.

I wouldn't put it all on Mikey boy though.

I mean Taylor lost 2 big time OL who retired and his top pick Jonah Williams for the year before the season. The next year two suspected defensive starters Reader and Waynes played little or none. Burrow got hurt and Mixon. But I’m sure Mike Brown who has been around a long time is still awfully savvy. I’d expect he saw some hints of good things to come.

(01-14-2022, 06:57 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I mean Taylor lost 2 big time OL who retired and his top pick Jonah Williams for the year before the season. The next year two suspected defensive starters Reader and Waynes played little or none. Burrow got hurt and Mixon. But I’m sure Mike Brown who has been around a long time is still awfully savvy. I’d expect he saw some hints of good things to come.

Yeah and Geno got hurt and disappeared, we replaced our DL and OL coaches who were bad with Hobby and Pollack
which were huge moves for the better. You win games in the trenches and what Taylor inherited was the worst in the 
league, really hard to win games with bad play in the trenches. 

This had to be built up for Taylor to even have a chance. Plus coaches like Hobby and Pollack had to become available
for us to hire. I don't really believe in luck but a lot had to fall in place for us to be where we are honestly.

The FO helped out big time in Free Agency though especially on the Defensive side of the ball.