(01-28-2022, 06:40 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'd rather bring in James Daniels over Brian Allen.
Let Daniels cover the RG spot for 2022 then see about moving Daniels to C in 2023 after Hopkins hits FA.

Oh yeah would love James Daniels, I was completely wrong about him in our Center Draft when we took Price.

Both Daniels and Ragnow have been damn good. I would put Daniels at Center right away myself and have Hop as the 
backup while still grooming Carman, but that is what I would do. Daniels is better in pass protection than Allen and is 
better in run blocking than Hopkins. This would be ideal now that I think about it. Forgot James Daniels was going to be
available.

(01-28-2022, 06:47 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Oh yeah would love James Daniels, I was completely wrong about him in our Center Draft when we took Price.

Both Daniels and Ragnow have been damn good. I would put Daniels at Center right away myself and have Hop as the 
backup while still grooming Carman, but that is what I would do. Daniels is better in pass protection than Allen and is 
better in run blocking than Hopkins. This would be ideal now that I think about it. Forgot James Daniels was going to be
available.

Could also just move Hopkins back to RG if you wanted Daniels at C.
Hopkins wasn't good as a run blocker there but he was a fine pass blocker.

If Carman shows he's good enough to win the RG battle in preseason, you can either move on from Hopkins or keep him as a valuable backup.

Worth also mentioning that former Buckeye and Cincinnati native Josh Norwell is set to hit FA too. He's an upgrade over Spain as a pass blocking LG.

(01-28-2022, 10:20 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: STRONGLY disagree. That leads you with a starting OL of...

Jonah Williams
Jackson Carman
Trey Hopkins
FA RG
Riley Reiff

That's no better than 2021's OL, which was terrible. 

Also I think Reiff is better as a superb backup for both T spots than a starting role at this point in his career, as you just can't rely on a guy who hasn't played a full season since 2015. That's a 34-year-old coming off 6 straight years of being banged up/injured. That's a recipe for having Prince as your starting RT again.

Bengals need to stop screwing around with the OL. Re-sign Spain, sign a quality FA C, sign a quality FA RG, draft a RT early. They are likely just an OL away from being SB favorites for the 2022 season.

Championship window is open. Don't F it up by doing halfassed measures on the OL and let Burrow keep getting killed. Including the postseason, Burrow has been sacked 62 times this year (not counting all the numerous other hits or sacks taken away by penalty). That will take years off the backend of his career if you keep letting it happen. I want to watch Burrow play for at least 15 years, take care of business on the OL.

Agree

The time for half measures, hoping, rolling the dice on oft injured high draft picks, and so on is gone.

Get JB a damn real line with top shelf guys.

(01-28-2022, 06:49 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Could also just move Hopkins back to RG if you wanted Daniels at C.
Hopkins wasn't good as a run blocker there but he was a fine pass blocker.

If Carman shows he's good enough to win the RG battle in preseason, you can either move on from Hopkins or keep him as a valuable backup.

Worth also mentioning that former Buckeye and Cincinnati native Josh Norwell is set to hit FA too. He's an upgrade over Spain as a pass blocking LG.

From what I have seen Hopkins is not near as good at Guard as he is at Center. I would keep him as a backup Center.

Norwell is another great thought.

Jonah/Spain/Hopkins is a group you can win with. I don't have any issues with them moving forward.

That being said, if for some reason the team went out and got a premier LT, then you'd have to make some changes. It will be very interesting to see how they approach the free agent market this year given that they have guys that they like in Adenji and Carman.

(01-28-2022, 06:54 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Jonah/Spain/Hopkins is a group you can win with.  I don't have any issues with them moving forward.

That being said, if for some reason the team went out and got a premier LT, then you'd have to make some changes.  It will be very interesting to see how they approach the free agent market this year given that they have guys that they like in Adenji and Carman.

I bet they also like D'Ante Smith who I also like. But we need proven starters on the right side.

Nothing has been proven right now except that Adeniji has been really struggling.

They need to re-sign Spain then go hard after C, RG and RT in FA and the draft. Hopkins is still under contract next year and if Reiff wants to sign as a quality, vet backup to chase that 2nd ring, so be it. Hopkins and Reiff would strengthen the bench tremendously. 

(01-28-2022, 06:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Hopkins is a middle of the pack starter.  He was just not 100% recovered from surgery this year.

He could be upgraded, but he will not be one of the worst starting centers if he returns to form.  So he is not a high priority on my list.

Middle of the pack is very generous.  He is not very good.  He has gone from awful to mediocre as the year has progressed but they should be looking for an upgrade in the off-season in my opinion. 

(01-28-2022, 07:22 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: They need to re-sign Spain then go hard after C, RG and RT in FA and the draft. Hopkins is still under contract next year and if Reiff wants to sign as a quality, vet backup to chase that 2nd ring, so be it. Hopkins and Reiff would strengthen the bench tremendously. 

This ^^^^^^^^^^

(01-28-2022, 02:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Trading away draft picks is trading away the future.

No team can afford to build a team entirely of vets through trades and free agency.  You have to be getting production from players on rookie contracts.

I am forever in the camp that thinks draft picks are overrated to an extent. 

Why would we not trade a second and third on completely unproven players for a proven player? Especially since we are on the cusp? 

Teams overvalue draft picks especially when it comes to trading them. The Rams are starting to figure this out. It's only a matter of time before other teams follow suit. 

As far as mortgaging the future? We have the future already on the roster. What we need right now is proven guys to supplement our young roster. You can't rely on the draft for that if you're trying to win now.

(01-28-2022, 08:37 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I am forever in the camp that thinks draft picks are overrated to an extent. 

Why would we not trade a second and third on completely unproven players for a proven player? Especially since we are on the cusp? 

Teams overvalue draft picks especially when it comes to trading them. The Rams are starting to figure this out. It's only a matter of time before other teams follow suit. 

I agree especially with an already young roster.  Adding veterans to balance out the age of our roster is how we truly open up the SB window for a while.  Obviously not go full Rams but if we could turn this years picks into 2-3 really good in their prime players for some SB runs why wouldn't we? 

(01-28-2022, 08:37 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I am forever in the camp that thinks draft picks are overrated to an extent. 

Why would we not trade a second and third on completely unproven players for a proven player? Especially since we are on the cusp? 

Teams overvalue draft picks especially when it comes to trading them. The Rams are starting to figure this out. It's only a matter of time before other teams follow suit. 

As far as mortgaging the future? We have the future already on the roster. What we need right now is proven guys to supplement our young roster. You can't rely on the draft for that if you're trying to win now.

(01-28-2022, 08:41 PM)BurrowTheGoat Wrote: I agree especially with an already young roster.  Adding veterans to balance out the age of our roster is how we truly open up the SB window for a while.  Obviously not go full Rams but if we could turn this years picks into 2-3 really good in their prime players for some SB runs why wouldn't we? 

I completely agree with both of you, as long as we bring our guys back that are only 1 year deals we are only a couple
players away now from being maybe the best team in the NFL. I don't care about trading picks right now honestly or 
trading up in the Draft as long as we get quality. No need for quantity anymore, we got that in spades.

(01-28-2022, 08:16 PM)BurrowTheGoat Wrote: Middle of the pack is very generous.  He is not very good.  He has gone from awful to mediocre as the year has progressed but they should be looking for an upgrade in the off-season in my opinion. 

Yep

He's only middle of the pack when he's facing lower tier Dlines. When he's facing average and above Dlines he struggles, a lot.

Gimme Trent Brown and Ben Jones

(01-28-2022, 07:22 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: They need to re-sign Spain then go hard after C, RG and RT in FA and the draft. Hopkins is still under contract next year and if Reiff wants to sign as a quality, vet backup to chase that 2nd ring, so be it. Hopkins and Reiff would strengthen the bench tremendously. 

Agreed, keep what is decent to .. ok..  get rid of the back ups in starting positions. 

(01-28-2022, 02:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Trading away draft picks is trading away the future.

No team can afford to build a team entirely of vets through trades and free agency.  You have to be getting production from players on rookie contracts.

Absolutely, a team must have several players on initial contracts playing well to play at a high level while staying under the salary cap.

(01-28-2022, 08:37 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I am forever in the camp that thinks draft picks are overrated to an extent. 

Why would we not trade a second and third on completely unproven players for a proven player? Especially since we are on the cusp? 

Teams overvalue draft picks especially when it comes to trading them. The Rams are starting to figure this out. It's only a matter of time before other teams follow suit. 

As far as mortgaging the future? We have the future already on the roster. What we need right now is proven guys to supplement our young roster. You can't rely on the draft for that if you're trying to win now.

There are 3 other teams in the same position as the Rams and they did so without trading away their future.

Normally I’d agree that we need pieces now because our SB window is open, however with Burrow, and Chase, i honestly think as long as Burrow is healthy, we will always be a threat. Just like Brady and The Pats, Burrow really could turn this franchise in a dynasty for as long as he is here and healthy. Guys want to play with him, and he will bring the best out of them. Brady did it with mediocre talent around him. Brady really only had a few great receivers in his career.

You have to trust the process on the Offensive Line to an extent. Trading multiple top 100 picks for one player isn't a smart way to build a roster long term.

We have three young players that the organization feels comfortable in Carmen, Odenji, and Smith at RG. I don't see them making a move here.

RT is an issue that doesn't seem to have a long term solution on the roster. I would assume that Rieff would be resigned + early draft pick. I would pay attention for players that could be cut. Particularly Bulaga from the Chargers, Lalell Collins from the Cowboys, and Aaron Rodgers best friend from the Packers. If they go with current FA Cam Robinson might be an option.

C- I wonder if they would trade up for Linderbaum in the draft? I think Hopkins is safe unless a clear upgrade jumps in the teams lap. Also they will probably draft a young C in the middle RDs to eventually replace Hopkins.

If we’re already looking to get a new RG, then we’re all admitting Carmen is a bust