(02-05-2022, 05:32 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: Fred posted the first two that came to mind for me. OL is a very hard place to come in and look good as rookies anymore. Some guys do but a lot can’t.

Outside of Cincy: I remember Philly fans calling Lane Johnson a bust after his first season too. Kolton Miller looked like a bust and has gotten better each year. Same with Chris Lindstrom. There are plenty of examples.

Thanks!  These examples give me hope that some of the guys can improve naturally.  I wouldn't mind us sprinkling in a seasoned vet to help groom them though.

I don’t know how they go about doing it, but absolute first priority is Oline. Any improvement from center right would be a godsend. Although I am curious how Hopkins will look another year removed from surgery.

They are going to have to lose players eventually. I’m sure Joe will be extended after next season and that’s going to cost a lot. Also Higgins and the next year Chase.

(02-05-2022, 05:37 PM)Synric Wrote: I'm watching Zion Johnson and Dylan Parham playing center and playing well not perfect but good... Parham has looked the best actually. 

Does Parham fit our system?  A guy I like is Zac Tom out of wake Forest he seemed to have a pretty good shrine bowl and has position versatility.

(02-05-2022, 05:57 PM)J24 Wrote: Does Parham fit our system?  A guy I like is Zac Tom out of wake Forest he seemed to have a pretty good shrine bowl and has position versatility.

Yes. He is at his best when he's combo blocking and climbing the the second level. He also does alot of pulling into space at Memphis. He's really showing he can handle the 1 on 1s vs the Power 5 guys which is what he needed to do this week.... that and have a good weigh in and measure which was alot better than expected.

Reiff can be released to free up money unless he takes cut in pay.

Most will not want to hear this but a player or two like Bates may have to be released and replaced in draft with player on rookie deal to free up cap space. Fan of keeping Bates but there will have to be a hard choice made somewhere that will hinge on what players they believe can plug right in coming out of draft.

But the very thing that can not be afforded is Burrow's health behind another poor O-line imo.

They need to decide what the draft will look like at 31/32. I’m good giving up a 3rd rounder to move up 10 spots to get a better tackle or center. That Iowa center or a tackle is great. But first you need a free agent tackle or center then pick up the other in the first round. Go resign Bates ( if he’s reasonable doesn’t appear to be so far) use the Wayne’s savings to help offset. Resign either Hill or Ogunjobi. Uzomah will be reasonable. Sign him to a longer term (3) but at a price tag favorable to the team. Spend your cap money on a tackle or center like I said and use your first rounder on the position you don’t get in FA.

(02-05-2022, 05:04 PM)J24 Wrote: I would argue that a guy like Morgan+ Taylor+ draft pick could fill the void of Boyd.  Also in all likely good Chase will probably play more slot as his career continues on which is what Boyd does.

2.) Hopkins needs to be replaced in free agency or draft this season.

This ^

(02-05-2022, 05:23 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: This is why the Bengals should use some of their draft picks to trade up or trade for players. They are the youngest team in the league and their window is now. They don't need a million picks this year. They just need to hit on a couple quality players. 

But once Joe and Chase hit that Cap we wont be able to keep so many high earners. We need a lot of development guys to work out.

(02-05-2022, 04:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Bates is a free agent.

What he meant was "trading" the big dollars we would spend on Bates to a free agent O-lineman and signing a cheaper safety.

I was thinking Boyd.. not Bates, Im an idiot/

(02-05-2022, 09:46 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: They need to decide what the draft will look like at 31/32. I’m good giving up a 3rd rounder to move up 10 spots to get a better tackle or center. That Iowa center or a tackle is great. But first you need a free agent tackle or center then pick up the other in the first round. Go resign Bates ( if he’s reasonable doesn’t appear to be so far) use the Wayne’s savings to help offset. Resign either Hill or Ogunjobi. Uzomah will be reasonable. Sign him to a longer term (3) but at a price tag favorable to the team. Spend your cap money on a tackle or center like I said and use your first rounder on the position you don’t get in FA.

Our 1st and 3rd wont move us up 10 spots.  32 pick and the 96th pick are still 100 points shy of trading for the 22nd pick.

(02-05-2022, 05:37 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Good OP from Fred.

Let us break it down. Assume Waynes is gone + $3 mil for XSF = $14 mil more. $72 mil.

Priority #1: Bates.

He is likely the most expensive guy we have. He underachieved in the regular season after a stellar 2020. Has come up big in the POs. I think $20 mil is too much for a FS with only 1 good year. And who is weak vs the run. Franchise tag is estimated at $13 mil. That keaves us with $59 mil.

https://www.spotrac.com/spots/projected-2022-nfl-tenders-franchise-tag-values-1349/  

If things get ugly, a good safery should be available at #31/#32.

Priority #2: Spain.

Rule #1 when you are in a hole, stop digging. The OL is a hole, but Spain is one of our top 2. Keep him and try to inprove the rest. He is solid but not exceptional. I do not see Carman, Adeniji, or Smith ready to start yet. Say $7 mil? He has said ye wants to be back. Hope he is a bridge vet and Carman eventually takes RG from him.  $53 mil left.

Kenyon Green has a chance to be there at #31/#32, but I would not count on it. Plus, I think RT will be priority. But, Zion Johnson is likely there.

Priority #3: CJ.

Upgrading at TE#3 is also a priority. Dropoff after CJ is huge. Again, if in hole, stop digging. I also think CJ is willing to come back in a reasonable deal. $8 mil. $45 mil.

Priority #4. DT. Hill, Ogunjobi, Tupou.

Gotta bring 2 back, or at least 1. I think the plan was to have Shelvin take over for Tupou as NT#2, but not sure if he is ready yet. Tupou can play both NT & DT, Shelvin cannot. Mike Daniels also a possible short term solution there. Tupou is likely the cheapest of the 3.

Ogunjobi the most expensive, and the only real guy who gets pressure semi-consistently from the inside. Though with Ossai back next year, we coukd see more of Hubbard & Sample inside.  

Will be interesting. Say we go big and spend $15 for Larry O AND Hill. Down to $30 mil.  

Priority #5. Apple/CB.

I think he is likely to have the most inflated opinion of his own worth. I would not go much over $6 mil. If not enough, I'd draft someone or go for another FA in that price range.  $24 mil.

Priority #6. Reiff/RT.

If Reiff voids his deal, we save $2.75 mil, rounded to $3 mil. $27 mil. I think the RT FAs are too pricey, mostly LT guys. We could try to sign him on the cheap to play LG and be the swing tackle and mentor the guy we draft (Penning, Raimann, etc). Say $5 mil. $22 mil left.

We have $22 mil left and have to deal with the draft pool. Say $10 mil. Down to $12 mil. Of course, that is 8 more guys. Some of the guys drafted will displace vets. We'll save some dollars there. Say $5. Back to $17 mil.

Enough to get an immediate mild RG/C upgrade ($6 mil to $10 mil). We could save $6 mil by letting Hopkins walk. If not, we still have $7-$11 mil for the rest of the roster or emergency moves in season.

Again, rough back of the napkin stuff. And that is with re-signing Bates, Spain, CJ, Larry O, Hill, Apple, and Reiff. If we let one or more walk, or let Hopkins go, we could save even more.  

But I do not expect us to have a shopping spree. I do expect 1 impact level offensive lineman signed. With another impact FA possible if we let Hopkins go or let another if our iwn FAs walk.

Bates has been better in the playoffs, but there's no way I'm FT'ing him.  $13 mil on a one year deal so he can suck in the regular season and blame it on his lack of a long term deal again?  You can get a quality replacement at FS and a quality RG on multi year deals for that same $13 mil.

Tupou is a good rotational NT and should be relatively cheap to resign.  Reup whoever you can get the best deal out of between Ogunjobi and Hill and get a 3 tech in the draft.  

I would also throw Brandon Wilson on the chopping block.  He was terrible as a returner before his injury, offers nothing as a position player, and we'd save $1.9 mil.  

(02-05-2022, 08:37 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Reiff can be released to free up money unless he takes cut in pay.

Most will not want to hear this but a player or two like Bates may have to be released and replaced in draft with player on rookie deal to free up cap space. Fan of keeping Bates but there will have to be a hard choice made somewhere that will hinge on what players they believe can plug right in coming out of draft.  

But the very thing that can not be afforded is Burrow's health behind another poor O-line imo.

This will be the most difficult part of sustained success if ownership is willing to do it.

Look at all the players the Patriots parted ways with to keep Brady and keep him clean.  Starting with 4x all pro Malloy, the list is long and distinguished. 6 trophies are worth it.

(02-05-2022, 05:23 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: This is why the Bengals should use some of their draft picks to trade up or trade for players. They are the youngest team in the league and their window is now. They don't need a million picks this year. They just need to hit on a couple quality players. 

This is something I was just thinking about. I feel the same as everyone that our future is bright. But I really feel like we have a great 3 year window where we have guys like Mixon, Boyd and a lot of our free agent signings under contract not to mention have to sign Burrow, Chase and possibly Higgins. So if we could trade this years 1st and next years 1st to move up this year for the right offensive lineman it may be worth it. Then if we sign 1 good OL free agent and leave us the rest of this draft for other positions we could be in a really good place going into next year. Also our 1st next year could be a late pick as well.

I think we need to worry about this in 9 days. Let’s finish the 2021 season first.

Who Dey!!

(02-05-2022, 04:55 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I don't people realize how integral to this offense Boyd is.  You get rid of him and you take a big step back.

I don't realize what Bates has to do with Boyd?

(02-06-2022, 11:31 AM)M.W. Wrote: I don't realize what Bates has to do with Boyd?

I was thinking Boyd, not Bates, as a player with a large salary that we are not maximizing his potential due to Chase & Tee. His $10M yr could be used on a great lineman versus a slot #3 wr that could be filled by a much cheaper (not as good albeit) player.

No idea why/how I lost my mind confusing Bates & Boyd... 

(02-05-2022, 03:51 PM)Jhowdy54 Wrote: Don’t understand why you guys want to re-sign Riley Reiff. Guy is old and not really good.  We need a major upgrade at RT and RG.

And a metric crap-ton of potential backup tackles already here in Prince, Smith, and Adeniji.  There's no need at all to bring back Reiff unless he's on and Eric Winston type end-of-career deal.

(02-06-2022, 01:53 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: I think we need to worry about this in 9 days. Let’s finish the 2021 season first.

Who Dey!!

Yea, nothing wrong with discussing it now but I'm also not thinking about it until after we win the Super Bowl.

(02-06-2022, 11:44 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I was thinking Boyd, not Bates, as a player with a large salary that we are not maximizing his potential due to Chase & Tee. His $10M yr could be used on a great lineman versus a slot #3 wr that could be filled by a much cheaper (not as good albeit) player.

No idea why/how I lost my mind confusing Bates & Boyd... 

Boyd is my favorite player and I just can't get on board with trading/letting him go. I get that in some ways it makes sense and he has had some games of little relevance. But he has also had some games where he was the one making big plays. I hope next year and with more time the offense will be more balanced with WR usage. I also think improved Oline play will help spread the ball around. We need to continue to add weapons not get rid of them in my opinion. I would like to draft a WR in the 4th or 5th RD. Now when his contract is up the writing will probably be on the wall unless Higgins looks too pricey to keep.

(02-05-2022, 02:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Reiff, starter
Ogunjobi, starter
Uzomah, starter
Bates, starter
Spain, starter
Apple, starter

B.J. Hill, 50% of snaps
Tupou, 40% of snaps

Resign Reiff because he’s likely our starter if we strike out in FA. If he wants more than around 5 million then I’d let him test FA. Either way he’s not a day 1 priority. Wait to see who you draft and who you can land in FA before resigning Riley.


Resign Ogunjobi. There’s no use in letting him go. He won’t ask for too much either. 2 years 15-18 million is about where I’d hover. He was making good plays when healthy. Sacks, and run support. He was our best DT. He’s one that i think will be poached by another team. No way someone doesn’t offer him around 21 million for 2 years.

Uzomah is getting resigned. Period. Due to his injury history i can’t see him getting more than 6 million. Honestly that seems kinda high too. No one should poach him. He’s good but he’s not so good that another team would want him.

Bates is getting 90 million plus over 5 years. If we tag him i will be very disappointed.

Spain is likely coming back around 4-6 million per year. He’s earned it.

Apple i think is a toss up. If he makes plays in the big game i could literally see him getting a contract from it. If he’s horrible and leaves a bad taste in everyone’s mouth i think we’ll let him walk. By my count Apple gave up 2 TDs against KC so as of right now I’d let him go.

BJ Hill is a toss up. I cannot believe he won’t get a bigger offer somewhere else. He has emerged as an amazing DT. No way a team doesn’t want him as their starter after this season.

The other guy idc. He’d be cheap if resigned so idc but at some point it’s time to let Shelvin work