(02-14-2022, 05:19 PM)wcu Wrote: Whiffing on those guys put us behind 4-5 years at least.  That Ogbuehi/Fisher draft was disasterous.

Had we nailed those picks...we likely don't have Burrow and Chase too though. So it cuts both ways.

(02-14-2022, 04:29 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: People act like it's as easy as just signing the 2-3 best offensive lineman. Many teams need lineman. It's going to be competitive.

Very true, and the NFL has a number of examples where a team gets to a certain point and then they "just need to fix this one thing" and they'll obviously get further next year.  It reminds me of the Vikings making the NFC Championship game with Kase Keenum and thinking if they broke the bank for Kirk Cousins they'd upgrade from backup to starter at the most important position and be in the SB, no problem.  Four years later, and it doesn't look like it's happening.

I have faith we can get over this hump, and the SB is a nice hump to establish, but we aren't the first team that "just hastafixthisonething."  

The o-line has just been a flippin' albatross around here for years.  Recall the days we would argue that there was no point in drafting Dalton's replacement until we fixed the o-line?  Lordy, loo.

(02-14-2022, 05:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Had we nailed those picks...we likely don't have Burrow and Chase too though. So it cuts both ways.

I pointed out that if we don't draft John Ross we don't have Burrow or Chase either.  It's like one of them butterfly effect things.  Or it's like that song where Garth Brooks tells Jesus he's glad that Jesus didn't magically make his high school girlfriend marry him, or something. 

Hell, if our o-line doesn't get Burrow killed in his rookie year or Fat Randy can make a 6 yard FG in week 1 we probably win a few more games and don't get Chase. A lotta bad stuff you don't want to be thankful for can lead to good results.

(02-14-2022, 04:29 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The thing is, they have been trying to fix the offensive line for years. Drafting Ced/Fisher/Price/Williams. They traded for Cordy Glenn. Brought in Reiff/Spain/XSF. Drafted Carman. Drafted some other guys.

Management has been trying to fix the offensive line...it just hasn't worked.

People act like it's as easy as just signing the 2-3 best offensive lineman. Many teams need lineman. It's going to be competitive.

They need to fire then entire o line coaching staff and start over from scratch.

(02-14-2022, 05:31 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Very true, and the NFL has a number of examples where a team gets to a certain point and then they "just need to fix this one thing" and they'll obviously get further next year.  It reminds me of the Vikings making the NFC Championship game with Kase Keenum and thinking if they broke the bank for Kirk Cousins they'd upgrade from backup to starter at the most important position and be in the SB, no problem.  Four years later, and it doesn't look like it's happening.

I have faith we can get over this hump, and the SB is a nice hump to establish, but we aren't the first team that "just hastafixthisonething."  

The o-line has just been a flippin' albatross around here for years.  Recall the days we would argue that there was no point in drafting Dalton's replacement until we fixed the o-line?  Lordy, loo.

Plus, guys will get hurt next year. Guys will decline in performance. We'll lose free agents. Guys will overperform expectations.

Other teams will get better and worse. It's hard to say. The Browns and Ravens have decent rosters. Probably the Steelers have the worst one in the division.

(02-14-2022, 06:03 PM)BengalB Wrote: They need to fire then entire o line coaching staff and start over from scratch.

They did that before this past season.

(02-14-2022, 06:03 PM)BengalB Wrote: They need to fire then entire o line coaching staff and start over from scratch.

Even the best offensive line coach in the history of the NFL - Paul Alexander would have struggled with these guys. Ever since they stopped using his foolproof method of drafting lineman based on how they dispensed ketchup from a bottle...things have declined. (This is so sarcastic.)

It’s hard to figure the roster puzzle until we sign our own. But I think you need a FA center, resign Reiff and get another tackle in the draft at #31. Resign Spain and hope Carman emerges. Then you draft a corner #62. If you can move up a few spots offering a third rounder go for it. If you could swap first round picks and throw in a second rounder and move up to around 15 I’d do it. Then get that Iowa center or a tackle.

(02-14-2022, 05:25 PM)casear2727 Wrote: This right here.  Says it all. We had 3 1st Round busts in 4 years, just a killer.

2 first and a second. But throw in Ross and there's your third.

The thing that scares me is they will think Hopkins is coming off an injury, and Carman was only a rookie and they will be good next year.  I guess they could be right, but I don't think so.

(02-14-2022, 06:38 PM)michaelsean Wrote: 2 first and a second.  But throw in Ross and there's your third.

The thing that scares me is they will think Hopkins is coming off an injury, and Carman was only a rookie and they will be good next year.  I guess they could be right, but I don't think so.

Right, Ross is the 3rd, and Fischer was more injury related.  Hopkins was a bottom 5 Center on the season, Carmen simply wasnt a good selection whatsoever.  Bad back coming in to play a position he had never played with higher ranked and better players still available.

I still have hope for Carmen but it is disappointing that he couldnt crack the absolute worst line in the league.

(02-14-2022, 04:29 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The thing is, they have been trying to fix the offensive line for years. Drafting Ced/Fisher/Price/Williams. They traded for Cordy Glenn. Brought in Reiff/Spain/XSF. Drafted Carman. Drafted some other guys.

Management has been trying to fix the offensive line...it just hasn't worked.

People act like it's as easy as just signing the 2-3 best offensive lineman. Many teams need lineman. It's going to be competitive.

As an OL, most other teams don't offer you the opportunity to protect Joe Burrow. But I do agree with your post.

We make out as if the FO just let Burrow into the lion's den with how little protection they've offered him. Fact is for the past decade the team has tried a lot to sort out a good offensive line, and it just has never worked. It's not for want of trying. 

Obviously this offseason it's absolutely imperative they sort out a good OL for next year. We've already seen what having Burrow can do with guys wanting to come play here, so I'm hopeful some good linemen will want to sign up to protect Joe.

(02-14-2022, 05:18 PM)Wyche Wrote: No doubt. That series of picks set the team back years. 

Well that and letting our only two good O-linemen Whitworth and Zeitler walk away. 

(02-14-2022, 04:29 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The thing is, they have been trying to fix the offensive line for years. Drafting Ced/Fisher/Price/Williams. They traded for Cordy Glenn. Brought in Reiff/Spain/XSF. Drafted Carman. Drafted some other guys.

Management has been trying to fix the offensive line...it just hasn't worked.

People act like it's as easy as just signing the 2-3 best offensive lineman. Many teams need lineman. It's going to be competitive.

That is true.  So many swing, miss, whiffs.  The trick is, we can't whiff anymore.

(02-14-2022, 08:54 PM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: As an OL, most other teams don't offer you the opportunity to protect Joe Burrow. But I do agree with your post.

We make out as if the FO just let Burrow into the lion's den with how little protection they've offered him. Fact is for the past decade the team has tried a lot to sort out a good offensive line, and it just has never worked. It's not for want of trying. 

Obviously this offseason it's absolutely imperative they sort out a good OL for next year. We've already seen what having Burrow can do with guys wanting to come play here, so I'm hopeful some good linemen will want to sign up to protect Joe.

This may be true but there are no grades for good effort.... Joe's knees will attest to this. We certainly need to step up to the plate and determine our team priorities then make big boy decisions.  We are in SB discussions now, feelings & emotions dont count - the value a player had a couple years ago means nothing going into a new season.

(02-14-2022, 09:03 PM)Yogo Wrote: That is true.  So many swing, miss, whiffs.  The trick is, we can't whiff anymore.

Some were easy to see. Ced was coming off an injury in college and gave up a lot of sacks.

Glenn, I think most ppl liked that move.

(02-14-2022, 10:03 PM)casear2727 Wrote: This may be true but there are no grades for good effort.... Joe's knees will attest to this. We certainly need to step up to the plate and determine our team priorities then make big boy decisions.  We are in SB discussions now, feelings & emotions dont count - the value a player had a couple years ago means nothing going into a new season.

Oh of course. All I'm saying with the 'not for the want of trying' part, is we've spent a lot of high picks on the OL. We couldn't have just done that ever single year, which imo is why we've seen the rest of the team kick on, while the OL looks like trash. But now, we don't need to spend picks/money in many other positions, so the time for the OL is now.

(02-15-2022, 10:34 AM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: Oh of course. All I'm saying with the 'not for the want of trying' part, is we've spent a lot of high picks on the OL. We couldn't have just done that ever single year, which imo is why we've seen the rest of the team kick on, while the OL looks like trash. But now, we don't need to spend picks/money in many other positions, so the time for the OL is now.

Exactly right.  Every other position group looks pretty good. Sure, we can add depth here and there, but we look pretty solid across the board except for one glaring weakness.  

Why are people suggesting we fire the OL coaches? Isn't this a clear case of the OL talent lacking rather than the coaching staff making bad decisions? For all we know, the coaching elevated the poor play to help the team experience regular season and playoff success. For all we know, it could have been much worse.

Do I dare say that Price actually had a decent season with the Giants? Not great, but, PFF ranked him 19th amongst Centers.

Anyway, I think Zion Johnson and Darian Kinnard will be there at 31. However, free agency is the way to go if they want to fix the line immediately.

(02-15-2022, 11:55 AM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: Do I dare say that Price actually had a decent season with the Giants? Not great, but, PFF ranked him 19th amongst Centers.

Anyway, I think Zion Johnson and Darian Kinnard will be there at 31. However, free agency is the way to go if they want to fix the line immediately.

I thought Price actually looked ok with us during the preseason.  I was excited for him to have his best season with us yet.  Of course, I was beyond thrilled after I saw how the BJ Hill trade turned out and would obviously do it again.  But, Price seems to have turned a bit of a corner.