All great, but not sure what that has to do with Pollack especially given his room was the weak link.....

(02-15-2022, 03:09 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: It all was to be expected.  The last two decades nearly all of our playoff losses were because teams came out with better game plans and executed.  This was easily the most winnable game of all of our losses this season.  It seems there were more than a handful of plays that if just one of them goes differently we win this game.  However, most of those things were mistakes by an inexperienced coaching staff.  

I had most of my kids hockey team parents over for a Super Bowl party who never really watched the Bengals play this year but we’re rooting for Burrow.  Some of which are former professional hockey players/current D1 College Hockey Head Coaches…and they just could not believe some of the boneheaded things the Bengals coaches were doing.  Aside from the poor officiating calls the general consensus was the Bengals coaching staff lost them the game more than the Rams won it.  

This all goes back to Mike Brown’s choice to hire an inexperienced coach and the fact that they had a difficult time getting anybody to coach the defense.  You’d think after years of Mike Browns selected coaches getting outcoached he would look for somebody who wouldn’t need come in and learn the ways of the NFL.  But in reality all Mike wanted was a yes guy to come in and be a face while Mike ran everything behind the curtain.   He absolutely deserves to come as close as you can to a Lombardi and not win it.

I still believe that Zac can learn since he is young. He should be really kicking himself after that terrible gameplan.

As you said, that game was very winnable and we almost won even with a terrible gameplan which is the crazy part.

The only way to gain experience is to coach in these types of games and learn from them.

All I know is Zac and Lou specifically were way better this season. I just hope they continue to get better at what they do.

(02-15-2022, 02:53 PM)jj22 Wrote: But let's look back on 2018.

Did any of these players develop under Pollack? (you could say Hopkins I guess).

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2019/3/9/18216278/2018-bengals-position-review-offensive-line

So it's not just a years worth of wondering who has developed under him....

The elephant in the room (to continue with that theme) is no one has really developed under Pollack. And that is sad to say given the need to improve the line and get the right coach in.

So they changed from Alexander to Pollack to Turner to Pollack and you want to know why an UDFA isn’t starting over Williams or Reiff?

(02-15-2022, 03:16 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: So they changed from Alexander to Pollack to Turner to Pollack and you want to know why an UDFA isn’t starting over Williams or Reiff?

I don't think I asked that so no I don't want to know.... 

I do want to know who he's developed.... 

(02-15-2022, 02:29 PM)jj22 Wrote: Sure.

Typically someone in the room progresses. Someone in a full season under the Assistant coaches tutelage. 

The DL improved in 13 months under a new coach.
Our WR improved in 13 months under a new coach.
Eli Apple improved under a new CB coach, and last year Alexander had a great year under the first year of the CB coach as did Phillips.
Turner got the best out of Fred freakin Johnson in his first year as an assistant coach.
In Gorden's first year, he got a good year out of Pratt and got the young Lb's up to speed.

The DL added Hendrickson and got Reader back and added Ogonjobi and Hill. If we add that kind of talent to the OL, Pollack you all will be scared we'll lose Pollack to a team as a HC.

(02-15-2022, 02:44 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Weren't there more screens than just one?
I thought there were.
Mixon had 5 receptions for a total of one yard. Pretty much all of those receptions wouldn't have come on anything other than a screen.
Evans' one reception was just for three yards. I thought that was a screen too but maybe it was a different short route, can't remember.
The only thing I remember for Evans was that missed pass.

I think the opposing defense just did a really good job of shutting down Taylor's offense in the 2nd half.

Pollack's strength in coaching is clearly the run game.
The run game was going mostly smooth too, but leaning on Perine at the end just wasn't a good idea. He just doesn't run with power like you would think of a 240 lb RB.

They basically threw the ball to him with no blockers. One that I recall in the 4th Quarter that lost 3 yards. Bad play design.

(02-15-2022, 03:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I still believe that Zac can learn since he is young. He should be really kicking himself after that terrible gameplan.

As you said, that game was very winnable and we almost won even with a terrible gameplan which is the crazy part.

The only way to gain experience is to coach in these types of games and learn from them.

All I know is Zac and Lou specifically were way better this season. I just hope they continue to get better at what they do.

This is still my major concern going forward. Maybe Burrow is great enough to make a mediocre game plan look good...but maybe against elite teams that won't cut it?

(02-15-2022, 03:19 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The DL added Hendrickson and got Reader back and added Ogonjobi and Hill. If we add that kind of talent to the OL, Pollack you all will be scared we'll lose Pollack to a team as a HC.

He also got something out of Sample (a 4th round pick) and Tupou came back strong from a year off. Ossai looked looked to have developed for a player new to the position. I feel like he got a career year out of Hubbard.

(02-15-2022, 03:30 PM)jj22 Wrote: He also got something out of Sample (a 4th round pick) and Tupou came back strong from a year off. Ossai looked looked to have developed for a player new to the position. I feel like he got a career year out of Hubbard.

When you have a couple dominant players like Reader and Hendrickson...it frees other players up and helps them produce.

I'm sure coaching is some of it, but take Reader and Hendrickson away...and we're a bad line probably. And Hubbard gets doubled and looks bad.

(02-15-2022, 03:21 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: They basically threw the ball to him with no blockers. One that I recall in the 4th Quarter that lost 3 yards. Bad play design.

Yep I distinctly remember that a couple of times. Easy for the defense to sniff out and stop.

(02-15-2022, 03:24 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: This is still my major concern going forward. Maybe Burrow is great enough to make a mediocre game plan look good...but maybe against elite teams that won't cut it?

I think it's worth noting that Taylor's offensive scheme is mimicked from McVay, so McVay probably helped Morris on how to attack it.

(02-15-2022, 03:34 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: When you have a couple dominant players like Reader and Hendrickson...it frees other players up and helps them produce.

I'm sure coaching is some of it, but take Reader and Hendrickson away...and we're a bad line probably. And Hubbard gets doubled and looks bad.

Ossai back for next year should help that. Also, they could probably invest in a cheap pass rusher in FA that can do more than the likes of Khalid Kareem, Cam Sample, and Wyatt Ray. 
I'd love to try to bring Ryan Kerrigan on a cheap 1-year deal. His value really dropped with the Eagles, he was only playing on a $2.5 mill contract, and he's fallen off some since 2018. He's from Muncie Indiana (only 2 hrs from Cincy) and could want to be part of a championship-caliber team before he retires.
Bengals might be able to add him for $2 mill or less.

(02-15-2022, 02:45 PM)jj22 Wrote: And the other rookies and 2nd/3rd year players..... Carman wasn't the only pick (Hill,Smith). We also had F.Johnson, and I.Prince as young returning players. Adeniji a 2nd year player.

None developed.

That is pretty telling all those swings and all could be misses.

Prince and Adeniji were 6th round picks and Johnson was an undrafted free agent.  

So it is not at all "telling" of anything.  An overwhelming majority of guys taken in the 6th round and later never develop into decent players.

(02-15-2022, 12:04 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Maybe Heinz changed the geometry of ketchup bottles and no one noticed rendering our scouting useless...

No, Heinz gave Mikey boy a big discount, but didn't tell him it was the "Green" ketchup. So they guys are sneaking in packets from fast food joints.


No one wants to put what looks like baby poop on your food...

PS The purple was bad enough...

(02-15-2022, 04:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Prince and Adeniji were 6th round picks and Johnson was an undrafted free agent.  

So it is not at all "telling" of anything.  An overwhelming majority of guys taken in the 6th round and later never develop into decent players.

That's cool but none developing? Nothing, not even a hint that we found a starter for next year? Hell not even a potential backup... 

We can't rely on any of them for future planning. I think coaching plays a part in that. You don't have to select a guard/center in the first 3 rounds. KC's RG that started was a 6 round pick. Their Oline Coach got him right together. I don't agree with this notion being thrown around that there shouldn't have been expectations that at least 1 interior Oline pick developed (into at least backup quality) because they were late round picks.

(02-15-2022, 03:30 PM)jj22 Wrote: He also got something out of Sample (a 4th round pick) 

Mmm, 4th rounder, eh?

Quote:and Tupou came back strong from a year off. Ossai looked looked to have developed for a player new to the position. I feel like he got a career year out of Hubbard.

Ossai wasn’t new to playing edge. He was injured in the 2nd preseason game. To say he developed from the first preseason game to the second preseason game over a handful of snaps is like my love making, premature.

Oline:
Williams, former 1st round pick during Turner’s tenure
Spain, UDFA, mid-season pick up during Turner’s tenure after being released
Hopkins, UDFA during Alexander’s tenure, only OL coached by Pollack during previous Bengals’ tenure
Su’a-Filo, 31 y/o former 2nd round pick journeyman who never lived up to expectations signed during Turner’s tenure
Reiff, 33 y/o 10 year vet former 1st round pick most likely on his last stop before retirement signed during Pollack’s second tenure as a one year stop gap
Prince, former 6th round pick claimed off waivers during Turner’s tenure after being released, Covid opt out last season
Johnson, UDFA claimed off waivers during Turner’s tenure after being released
Adeniji, developmental 6th round OT during Turner’s tenure playing out of position at RG
Carman, Smith, Hill; 2nd, 4th, 6th round rookies drafted during Pollack’s tenure


Most of that reads like the cast of The Replacements. Not the roster of a NFL Super Bowl contender.

(02-15-2022, 05:40 PM)jj22 Wrote: That's cool but none developing? Nothing, not even a hint that we found a starter for next year? Hell not even a potential backup... 

We can't rely on any of them for future planning. I think coaching plays a part in that. You don't have to select a guard in the first 3 rounds. I don't agree with this notion being thrown around that there shouldn't have been expectations that at least 1 interior Oline pick developed (into at least backup quality) because they were late round picks.

Carman not playing in the SB is interesting. Why not try him?

The other guys? Idk. They might be outperforming their draft position. 6th round picks are generally special teamers early.

(02-15-2022, 05:43 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Mmm, 4th rounder, eh?


Ossai wasn’t new to playing edge. He was injured in the 2nd preseason game. To say he developed from the first preseason game to the second preseason game over a handful of snaps is like my love making, premature.

He did have him all training camp and yes Ossia was thought to need developing, as he was new to the position after playing rush OLB with Texas 3-4 defense. 

(02-15-2022, 05:40 PM)jj22 Wrote: That's cool but none developing? Nothing, not even a hint that we found a starter for next year? Hell not even a potential backup... 

We can't rely on any of them for future planning. I think coaching plays a part in that. You don't have to select a guard/center in the first 3 rounds. KC's RG that started was a 6 round pick. Their Oline Coach got him right together. I don't agree with this notion being thrown around that there shouldn't have been expectations that at least 1 interior Oline pick developed (into at least backup quality) because they were late round picks.

The only one Pollack has coached for more than 10 months is Hopkins, a 29 y/o UDFA coming off ACL repair. During ***** Covid restrictions. And an UDFA at LG, RT, and a 6th round developmental OT playing RG in the Super Bowl. And the HC is calling 5 wide sets on 1st down without even the hint of a run without a TE or RB to chip and outside rushers running unabated to the QB in less than 2 seconds.

(02-15-2022, 05:55 PM)jj22 Wrote: He did have him all training camp and yes Ossia was thought to need developing, as he was new to the position after playing rush OLB with Texas 3-4 defense. 

So the 2-3 quarters of preseason game and what 3 weeks of training camp he got...developed him?

Can this coach coach the offensive line? They'll have it fixed in 10 days!