(02-15-2022, 06:12 AM)casear2727 Wrote: This is the emotional fan response, we can all love TB doesnt mean his salary makes sense when we have very bad linemen. Patriots fans loved all the guys Belicheck cut in order to go to multiple Super Bowls. It is a very hard business.

The Bengals for a while had the "family run" mantra I think. When businesses say "family", it's a lie, it's something management says to manipulate their employees. It's also used to keep hiring "only family members" and sometimes used as an excuse to not fire people. It's hard to fire "family". We will see how that works with Zac's "connected" culture which is probably juts a synonym for family. I'm sure Burrow knows this is how the business is...

(02-15-2022, 06:37 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: The Bengals for a while had the "family run" mantra I think. When businesses say "family", it's a lie, it's something management says to manipulate their employees. It's also used to keep hiring "only family members" and sometimes used as an excuse to not fire people. It's hard to fire "family".

And we tend to keep players past their prime or production level for emotional reasons.  

Keeping the Bengals in Cincy is by far the best thing ownership has done, and that is important.

But compared to other owners there is not one thing I see our FO do better or provide for the team and coaches in order to help them succeed above and beyond other owners.  (we do have a MRI machine in the stadium, only Dallas has one as well)

(02-15-2022, 06:21 AM)casear2727 Wrote: "They could sign 3 guys and make each of them the highest paid offensive linemen in NFL history one after another and still have over $10m in cap space."

This simply reveals that you are not taking into account the amount of players we need to sign and re-sign. There are several posts listing who we lose and what it would take to keep them.  I'm not sure what else to tell you but it goes pretty quick.

In order for us to have sustained success - defined by me as being good enough to make a significant playoff run each year - we need players that produce at or above their salary.

I dont think we need any 3 personnel at 10M, wether it be WR3, DE3, DT3, CB3, etc.  Especially when our oline is bad enough to threaten us losing Burrow each season.

Or it simply reveals that I was using it as an example of how absurdly much there is to spend. The top 4 highest paid OL are all LTs and the Bengals aren't in the market for one. I was just stating that it was possible.

Thuney signed for $16m/yr to be the highest paid G.
Linsley signed for $12.5m/yr to be the highest paid C at the time.

James Daniels, G: 5yr/$50m
https://heavy.com/sports/chicago-bears/james-daniels-contract-extension-free-agency/

Austin Corbett, G: 4yr/$33.5m
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-rams/austin-corbett-25132/market-value/

Bradley Bozeman, C: 4yr/$40m
https://ebonybird.com/2022/02/05/bradley-bozeman-unlikely-ravens-2022/

Then use the 31st pick in the 2022 NFL Draft to draft a RT: 4yr/$11.3m (in 2021)

....even if you want to pretend that contract cap hits are equally spread year-by-year (they're not), that's just roughly $31.2m... out of $72.6m, leaving the Bengals $41.4m to fill the rest of their roster. Can we finally stop this nonsense?

(02-15-2022, 07:56 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: ....even if you want to pretend that contract cap hits are equally spread year-by-year (they're not), that's just roughly $31.2m... out of $72.6m, leaving the Bengals $41.4m to fill the rest of their roster. Can we finally stop this nonsense?

Bengals don't have $72 million in cap space.  They are projected to have $58 million and they could gain another 10 by cutting Waynes. 

And the big problem is that we only have 37 players under contract for 2022 and need to replace several key players including...

Reiff, starter
Ogunjobi, starter
Uzomah, starter
Bates, starter
Spain, starter
Apple, starter

B.J. Hill, 50% of snaps
Tupou, 40% of snaps

So that is 8 key players plus another 6 spots just to fill our roster.

There is not near as much to spend as you seem to believe.

(02-15-2022, 07:56 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Or it simply reveals that I was using it as an example of how absurdly much there is to spend. The top 4 highest paid OL are all LTs and the Bengals aren't in the market for one. I was just stating that it was possible.

Thuney signed for $16m/yr to be the highest paid G.
Linsley signed for $12.5m/yr to be the highest paid C at the time.

James Daniels, G: 5yr/$50m
https://heavy.com/sports/chicago-bears/james-daniels-contract-extension-free-agency/

Austin Corbett, G: 4yr/$33.5m
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-rams/austin-corbett-25132/market-value/

Bradley Bozeman, C: 4yr/$40m
https://ebonybird.com/2022/02/05/bradley-bozeman-unlikely-ravens-2022/

Then use the 31st pick in the 2022 NFL Draft to draft a RT: 4yr/$11.3m (in 2021)

....even if you want to pretend that contract cap hits are equally spread year-by-year (they're not), that's just roughly $31.2m... out of $72.6m, leaving the Bengals $41.4m to fill the rest of their roster. Can we finally stop this nonsense?

I would love those pickups, but we have a shit ton of guys to sign, Ive done the math and it wont be that easy, especially if we re-sign Bates.  You will see and I am afraid you will be underwhelmed.  Not arguing just looking at numbers.

(02-15-2022, 10:11 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Bengals don't have $72 million in cap space.  They are projected to have $58 million and they could gain another 10 by cutting Waynes. 

And the big problem is that we only have 37 players under contract for 2022 and need to replace several key players including...

Reiff, starter
Ogunjobi, starter
Uzomah, starter
Bates, starter
Spain, starter
Apple, starter

B.J. Hill, 50% of snaps
Tupou, 40% of snaps

So that is 8 key players plus another 6 spots just to fill our roster.

There is not near as much to spend as you seem to believe.

If you're upgrading at C, then you don't need Trey Hopkins anymore. That's the other $6m along with Waynes' $10.8m in the $72.6m number.

Reiff, Hills, and Bates replaced by... Daniel Faalele, Perrion Winfrey, and Bryan Cook, respectively in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds of the draft. About $5.5m/yr for all 3.

Ogunjobi sign for 3yr/$21m.

Replace Uzomah with Gronk to help solve the Red Zone offense. 93 RZ catches for 65 TDs, plus 15 TDs in 22 career playoff games. 1yr/$8m is what he signed for last time.

Spain was already addressed by signing 2 Guards.

Replace Apple with Charvarius Ward at $10m/yr.


Tupou had 3 solo tackles all year, 12 total tackles. 1 QB hit, 0 TFL, 0 sacks, 0 Pdef, 0 FF. He can be replaced by a league minimum guy.


- - - - -
Even at the back-of-the-napkin numbers we tend to use here where all contracts have their cap hits perfectly spread out rather than increasing by year like almost all contracts ever, that still leaves you somewhere around $6m to fill out the very bottom of the roster with some rookie min deals. In reality it would be a decent amount more.

If $72.6m isn't much to spend in FA, then no team is signing FAs. Only 5 teams have at least $40m in cap space. Only 17 have at least $10m, only 20 have at least $5m, and 9 teams are actually negative right now. The Bengals have plenty of cap space to do plenty of upgrading.

(02-14-2022, 12:44 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Boyd's money isn't really an issue for now. His contract is up (and he'll be 30) when Chase is eligible for an extension, so they'll just move on from Boyd then.

You won't be able to find anyone as good as him for anywhere near his contract if you get rid of him. Plus then you're just 1 injury away from having only 1 good WR.

Keep Boyd. If you're going to trade anyone, trade Mixon. Only save $3.2m in cap space in 2022, but you save $13m in 2023 when Burrow will be getting an extension. No need for a $13m RB, that's just a bad allocation of resources.

Agree

The future of this team is getting a real Oline for Burrow and plenty of good receivers. We can get by with average RB's who can catch especially with an improved Oline.

(02-15-2022, 10:48 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If you're upgrading at C, then you don't need Trey Hopkins anymore. That's the other $6m along with Waynes' $10.8m in the $72.6m number.

Reiff, Hills, and Bates replaced by... Daniel Faalele, Perrion Winfrey, and Bryan Cook, respectively in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds of the draft. About $5.5m/yr for all 3.

Ogunjobi sign for 3yr/$21m.

Replace Uzomah with Gronk to help solve the Red Zone offense. 93 RZ catches for 65 TDs, plus 15 TDs in 22 career playoff games. 1yr/$8m is what he signed for last time.

Spain was already addressed by signing 2 Guards.

Replace Apple with Charvarius Ward at $10m/yr.


Tupou had 3 solo tackles all year, 12 total tackles. 1 QB hit, 0 TFL, 0 sacks, 0 Pdef, 0 FF. He can be replaced by a league minimum guy.


- - - - -
Even at the back-of-the-napkin numbers we tend to use here where all contracts have their cap hits perfectly spread out rather than increasing by year like almost all contracts ever, that still leaves you somewhere around $6m to fill out the very bottom of the roster with some rookie min deals. In reality it would be a decent amount more.

After watching Faalele at the Senior Bowl he reminds me of a bigger, slower, less talented version of Andre Smith. I don’t trust his pass blocking.

I would like to see the Bengals de-sign both Ogunjobi and Hill. I read a report Ogunjobi suffered a Lisfranc injury. Depending upon the severity, the recovery time can be similar to an ACL repair. There is a chance he may not be ready at the start of next season. I think Ogunjobi’s health will play a big part in the Bengals re-signing him. If they do, they’ll need a Plan B in case there is a delay in his recovery.

(02-15-2022, 11:00 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: After watching Faalele at the Senior Bowl he reminds me of a bigger, slower, less talented version of Andre Smith. I don’t trust his pass blocking.

I would like to see the Bengals de-sign both Ogunjobi and Hill. I read a report Ogunjobi suffered a Lisfranc injury. Depending upon the severity, the recovery time can be similar to an ACL repair. There is a chance he may not be ready at the start of next season. I think Ogunjobi’s health will play a big part in the Bengals re-signing him. If they do, they’ll need a Plan B in case there is a delay in his recovery.

Feel free to replace Faalele with your favorite of whomever is still available there... Darian Kinnard/Tyler Smith/Nick Petit-Frere/Trevor Panning/etc. I just liked the idea of the bigger MF you'll ever see just absolutely abusing the shit out of TJ Watt 2x a year. Like Derrick Henry stiff arming that CB through the sky.


I knew Ogunjobi had a hurt foot, didn't hear it was lisfranc. In that case I would probably offer Hill something like 3yr/$15m instead of the Ogunjobi deal. Might make Ogunjobi a cheap 1-year-prove-it type deal later.

(02-15-2022, 10:11 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Bengals don't have $72 million in cap space.  They are projected to have $58 million and they could gain another 10 by cutting Waynes. 

And the big problem is that we only have 37 players under contract for 2022 and need to replace several key players including...

Reiff, starter
Ogunjobi, starter
Uzomah, starter
Bates, starter
Spain, starter
Apple, starter

B.J. Hill, 50% of snaps
Tupou, 40% of snaps

So that is 8 key players plus another 6 spots just to fill our roster.

There is not near as much to spend as you seem to believe.

might as well knock off another 16 for Jessie Bates. I don’t think he’ll get the Jamal Adams payday but he will get a top 3 FS contract. He earned it in the playoffs. We were really the only team i saw that was able to safely play 1 high consistently and not get beat deep. Bates and Bell were amazing

(02-14-2022, 12:48 AM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I don’t think we called one screen pass. Really weird as I thought the rams were susceptible. Play calling can improve. Oline will improve. Young players like burrow will improve.

And I think only 2 play passes.  Totally inexcusable play calling.    

Boyd's head turned up to see if he could run before looking the ball in. He has to catch it first.  Odd since it was first time in a couple years he dropped a ball and we can chalk it up to pressure in the super bowl. 

(02-15-2022, 10:48 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If you're upgrading at C, then you don't need Trey Hopkins anymore. That's the other $6m along with Waynes' $10.8m in the $72.6m number.

Reiff, Hills, and Bates replaced by... Daniel Faalele, Perrion Winfrey, and Bryan Cook, respectively in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds of the draft. About $5.5m/yr for all 3.

Ogunjobi sign for 3yr/$21m.

Replace Uzomah with Gronk to help solve the Red Zone offense. 93 RZ catches for 65 TDs, plus 15 TDs in 22 career playoff games. 1yr/$8m is what he signed for last time.

Spain was already addressed by signing 2 Guards.

Replace Apple with Charvarius Ward at $10m/yr.


Tupou had 3 solo tackles all year, 12 total tackles. 1 QB hit, 0 TFL, 0 sacks, 0 Pdef, 0 FF. He can be replaced by a league minimum guy.


- - - - -
Even at the back-of-the-napkin numbers we tend to use here where all contracts have their cap hits perfectly spread out rather than increasing by year like almost all contracts ever, that still leaves you somewhere around $6m to fill out the very bottom of the roster with some rookie min deals. In reality it would be a decent amount more.

If $72.6m isn't much to spend in FA, then no team is signing FAs. Only 5 teams have at least $40m in cap space. Only 17 have at least $10m, only 20 have at least $5m, and 9 teams are actually negative right now. The Bengals have plenty of cap space to do plenty of upgrading.

It is impossible to predict replacing players with potential specific draft picks.

Evaluating IDLs by stats alone is a bit difficult.

I like your plan, we just have a lot to sign and a ton of stars looking at extensions the next 2 years.

(02-15-2022, 11:18 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Feel free to replace Faalele with your favorite of whomever is still available there... Darian Kinnard/Tyler Smith/Nick Petit-Frere/Trevor Panning/etc. I just liked the idea of the bigger MF you'll ever see just absolutely abusing the shit out of TJ Watt 2x a year. Like Derrick Henry stiff arming that CB through the sky.


I knew Ogunjobi had a hurt foot, didn't hear it was lisfranc. In that case I would probably offer Hill something like 3yr/$15m instead of the Ogunjobi deal. Might make Ogunjobi a cheap 1-year-prove-it type deal later.

You thin Faalele could handle J Watt?  

"I knew Ogunjobi had a hurt foot, didn't hear it was lisfranc. In that case I would probably offer Hill something like 3yr/$15m instead of the Ogunjobi deal. Might make Ogunjobi a cheap 1-year-prove-it type deal later."   < This for sure.

(02-14-2022, 12:48 AM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: Play calling can improve. Oline will improve. Young players like burrow will improve.

Need a new coach for that. People here are blaming refs but won’t blame their own head coach. He lost that game towards the end. 

(02-15-2022, 05:43 PM)LSUfaninTN Wrote: Need a new coach for that. People here are blaming refs but won’t blame their own head coach. He lost that game towards the end. 

We cant replace Zac, he just took us to the SB.

Shouldnt replace Pollack yet, he had minimum wage guys that couldnt bag groceries at Kurt Warners old job.

This oline is on the FO, the 10 year drafting of busts must stop. We must pickup real talent in FA, not guys at the tail end of their career, not guys cut from inferior teams.

Ignoring the name 10m for an average of 4 catches a game is a legitimate debate.

The issue for me is we are very top heavy at wideout. It already (with Boyd) feels like one injury to Chase or Higgins drastically changes the offense. I know it's a luxury to have 3 receivers like we have, but it still seems oddly frightening to think of one of the big 2 being injured without Boyd around.

(02-15-2022, 10:48 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If you're upgrading at C, then you don't need Trey Hopkins anymore. That's the other $6m along with Waynes' $10.8m in the $72.6m number.

Reiff, Hills, and Bates replaced by... Daniel Faalele, Perrion Winfrey, and Bryan Cook, respectively in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds of the draft. About $5.5m/yr for all 3.

Ogunjobi sign for 3yr/$21m.

Replace Uzomah with Gronk to help solve the Red Zone offense. 93 RZ catches for 65 TDs, plus 15 TDs in 22 career playoff games. 1yr/$8m is what he signed for last time.

Spain was already addressed by signing 2 Guards.

Replace Apple with Charvarius Ward at $10m/yr.


Tupou had 3 solo tackles all year, 12 total tackles. 1 QB hit, 0 TFL, 0 sacks, 0 Pdef, 0 FF. He can be replaced by a league minimum guy.


- - - - -
Even at the back-of-the-napkin numbers we tend to use here where all contracts have their cap hits perfectly spread out rather than increasing by year like almost all contracts ever, that still leaves you somewhere around $6m to fill out the very bottom of the roster with some rookie min deals. In reality it would be a decent amount more.

If $72.6m isn't much to spend in FA, then no team is signing FAs. Only 5 teams have at least $40m in cap space. Only 17 have at least $10m, only 20 have at least $5m, and 9 teams are actually negative right now. The Bengals have plenty of cap space to do plenty of upgrading.

Don’t argue with the Capoligiest Fred. He is fresh out of Hobspin 101…. At least with the 31st pick in the 1st round we don’t need 35m for rookies contracts. ?

(02-15-2022, 06:24 PM)jj22 Wrote: Ignoring the name 10m for an average of 4 catches a game is a legitimate debate.

The issue for me is we are very top heavy at wideout. It already (with Boyd) feels like one injury to Chase or Higgins drastically changes the offense. I know it's a luxury to have 3 receivers like we have, but it still seems oddly frightening to think of one of the big 2 being injured without Boyd around.

You make a valid point. If we had a decent oline it would be easier to accept I guess, but there is a reason teams dont have $10m injury insurance guys. 

Tell me this:  In the SB, if we had a quality RG instead of Adeniji, but Trent Taylor was our slot instead of Boyd, are we better or worse vs the Rams?

(02-15-2022, 06:20 PM)casear2727 Wrote: We cant replace Zac, he just took us to the SB.

Shouldnt replace Pollack yet, he had minimum wage guys that couldnt bag groceries at Kurt Warners old job.

This oline is on the FO, the 10 year drafting of busts must stop. We must pickup real talent in FA, not guys at the tail end of 

Oh I know, and I actually feel bad for you guys—you got the worst of both worlds in a Super Bowl appearance. (1) You lost (to the bastard Rams, no less) and (2) your coach is now not going anywhere. He’s a bad coach that struck gold. 

The parallels between Burrow/Orgeron and Burrow/Taylor are uncanny. “But he took us to the national championship!” Difference is at least Zac gets to keep Burrow, at least until Burrow’s contract runs out. Who knows what happens then.

(02-15-2022, 06:29 PM)casear2727 Wrote: You make a valid point. If we had a decent oline it would be easier to accept I guess, but there is a reason teams dont have $10m injury insurance guys. 

Tell me this:  In the SB, if we had a quality RG instead of Adeniji, but Trent Taylor was our slot instead of Boyd, are we better or worse vs the Rams?

I think we are better given Boyd's production. 

I'd like to have a better pass catching TE (no offense to CJ, or use one more) with 2 big time receivers. That would make me feel better about a plug and play 3rd wideout option.