I haven't noticed too many dumb things of late from Paul.. I think perhaps getting fired here and Dallas may have humbled him just a tad.. Who knows? But he did say and do some really dumb things with Marvin in those last few years.. I think perhaps all those ketchup comments may have been some back handed dig at Pittsburgh and the Heinz family even though it backfired on an epic scale..   

(02-16-2022, 10:49 AM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Spain started the year off strong, but really fell off towards the end. I don’t care if we resign him to a cheap deal but only because we have 3 more pressing O-line positions to fill. Let him Carman, and Smith fight out LG next year.

So say Spain costs $4 million a year or a guy like Connor Williams costs $6 million a year. I'd pay the $2 million more and go with Williams.

(02-16-2022, 12:06 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I tend to agree with Dehner and Morrison on Spain. If you bring him back, it's to 'compete' for a starting spot, with no guarantees.

Also agree with what they said about not being dead set on Jonah continuing at LT if you somehow find an opportunity to upgrade there. He could be a very viable option at LG or RT.

Which is why he's not in Buffalo. He's an ok lineman. Nothing special. Can look good at times. Bad others.

Our line is so bad that he looked good most of the year compared to the others. IF we upgrade a couple spots, he'd be the weakness.

(02-16-2022, 01:24 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Which is why he's not in Buffalo. He's an ok lineman. Nothing special. Can look good at times. Bad others.

Our line is so bad that he looked good most of the year compared to the others. IF we upgrade a couple spots, he'd be the weakness.

This^.    Spain was let go in Buffalo 7 months after signing a 3 year 15M deal.... 

(02-16-2022, 01:26 PM)casear2727 Wrote: This^.    Spain was let go in Buffalo 7 months after signing a 3 year 15M deal.... 

We have had bad luck with Buffalo guys on OL. Cordy Glenn, Jon Miller made it here...what 1 year?

I didn't understand letting Miller go. He wasn't great, but he was a vast upgrade to MJ.

(02-16-2022, 12:10 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: All options should be considered for the OL, right? Tobin and Taylor need an aggressive mindset with an off season plan hell bent on upgrading the OL. Exhaust all options--free agency, the draft, and trades--as means to add better players. Then, as you express, let them fiercely compete for a starting spot.

I want to see Burrow play with an improved line. I want to see how Taylor and Callahan improve as play callers with a better OL.

Absolutely

Williams may be the best of the bunch but even he isn't anything to write home about. We need a major retooling of the Oline.

And I agree with others, piano man isn't wrong.

(02-16-2022, 01:30 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Absolutely

Williams may be the best of the bunch but even he isn't anything to write home about. We need a major retooling of the Oline.

And I agree with others, piano man isn't wrong.

Jonah definately gets beat. The issue with him will be when his contract is up, some team will want to pay him like $15 million a year...and he probably isn't worth that. And he's hurt a decent bit.

(02-16-2022, 01:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So say Spain costs $4 million a year or a guy like Connor Williams costs $6 million a year. I'd pay the $2 million more and go with Williams.

If we can upgrade, do it. But If I prioritize O-line need It’s RG, RT, C, LG (with Spain), LT

(02-16-2022, 01:34 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Jonah definately gets beat. The issue with him will be when his contract is up, some team will want to pay him like $15 million a year...and he probably isn't worth that. And he's hurt a decent bit.

Jonah is basically a B tier starter.  Not great, but more than good enough if we shore up the rest of the OL.  I see him as the starting LT for the next two years and then replace him.  

(02-16-2022, 01:44 PM)Whatever Wrote: Jonah is basically a B tier starter.  Not great, but more than good enough if we shore up the rest of the OL.  I see him as the starting LT for the next two years and then replace him.  

I’m all for getting a top LT and moving him to RT. I wanted to give him the chance at LT this year but he was at times as bad as the other linemen

(02-16-2022, 01:54 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: I’m all for getting a top LT and moving him to RT. I wanted to give him the chance at LT this year but he was at times as bad as the other linemen

I really don't want to risk the RT spot on Jonah being able to switch sides.  We need definitive solutions, not gambles on musical chairs.

(02-16-2022, 02:53 PM)Whatever Wrote: I really don't want to risk the RT spot on Jonah being able to switch sides.  We need definitive solutions, not gambles on musical chairs.

I just was not impressed with Jonah as a LT. But we can’t replace all 5 this year .

(02-16-2022, 02:53 PM)Whatever Wrote: I really don't want to risk the RT spot on Jonah being able to switch sides.  We need definitive solutions, not gambles on musical chairs.

If we can land a guy like Terron Armstead we might not have a choice but to move Jonah.

(02-16-2022, 02:53 PM)Whatever Wrote: I really don't want to risk the RT spot on Jonah being able to switch sides.  We need definitive solutions, not gambles on musical chairs.

you slide him to LG if we find a better LT...  He would likely do better there.

But still got 3 spots to shore up after that

(02-16-2022, 03:02 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: If we can land a guy like Terron Armstead we might not have a choice but to move Jonah.

Move to another spot on the line or move as in seek a trading partner?

Need to keep priorities straight. The right side of the line was the cause of 75% at least of the line issues. So it has to be retooled first and foremost. Next is Center then the left side. Plus remember we have a lot of kids to develop. The thing is we need a solid veteran core in front of the kids both as mentors and to help us not to have an injury unhinge everything (which ironically Reiff's did). By the way this is why I want to resign Reiff AND bring in an A List tackle - so we have vet depth.

(02-16-2022, 04:29 PM)Joelist Wrote: Need to keep priorities straight. The right side of the line was the cause of 75% at least of the line issues. So it has to be retooled first and foremost. Next is Center then the left side. Plus remember we have a lot of kids to develop. The thing is we need a solid veteran core in front of the kids both as mentors and to help us not to have an injury unhinge everything (which ironically Reiff's did). By the way this is why I want to resign Reiff AND bring in an A List tackle - so we have vet depth.

Ideally, if you had the money to do so, you'd keep guys like Reiff and Hopkins as backup players. Then you're set.

(02-16-2022, 04:30 PM)Wyche Wrote: Ideally, if you had the money to do so, you'd keep guys like Reiff and Hopkins as backup players. Then you're set.

Bingo! Reiff is a perfect swing Guard/Tackle and Hop is a great backup / short span starter at Center. And I am not saying Carman, Smith or Hill are busts - far from it. All are raw and it takes time to develop linemen properly. 

(02-16-2022, 03:02 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: If we can land a guy like Terron Armstead we might not have a choice but to move Jonah.

I think Armstead would be a bad move, personally.  He will command $20+ mil a season and has never played 16 games.  He's missed 48 games during his career.

(02-16-2022, 12:06 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I tend to agree with Dehner and Morrison on Spain. If you bring him back, it's to 'compete' for a starting spot, with no guarantees.

Also agree with what they said about not being dead set on Jonah continuing at LT if you somehow find an opportunity to upgrade there. He could be a very viable option at LG or RT.

I don't know now. I think we know we can get okay starting from Jonah at LT. Not great, not terrible, but at least okay. We have no idea what he'd be as a guard. So that uncertainty plus a matter of resource allocation makes me question that plan.

Last season...
The top 5 paid non-franchised LTs cost $18-23m/yr.
The top 5 paid non-franchised Gs cost $14-16m/yr.

Theoretically would you be better off with a top-5 paid LT and Jonah as an unknown at LG... or a known quantity in Jonah being just okay at LT, a top-5 paid G, and $4-7m more in cap space to spend elsewhere? Keep in mind that $4-7m plus the $6m you would save from cutting Hopkins would be $10-13m is almost exactly enough to get you a top 5 paid non-franchised C ($10.85-13.5m/yr).