(02-16-2022, 05:33 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: Jonah has been inconsistent.  He has missed 16 games in his short career, had played with two OL coaches and the whole line has been a jumbled mess his 3 years here.  I think the future is bright for him.  Not top 5 bright but top 10 bright.  Replacing even an “average” LT is not easy (as some suggested).

I'm not suggesting moving Jonah at this point I dont think they can becausr the rest of line is in disarray. I did say during his draft process I thought he could be a good tackle but an All-Pro LG and I still believe that.

I know everyone is down on Jackson Carman but he showed alot of talent with great vision this season. The guy is big but fast out of his stance has loose hips and quick feet and is powerful. He is a perfect fit for Taylor and Callahan's scheme. He just needs to learn and refine his technique. This Off-Season will be huge for Carman....

Other than that the Bengals have Hopkins and a bunch of unknowns on the offensive line. They have to make moves.

(02-16-2022, 05:55 PM)Au165 Wrote: Great class for Right Tackles honestly. 

Still a couple of good RT FAs.

I'm one of the biggest draftniks I know but even I don't think they can afford to design their draft around the line. It'd be missing the point. They need production, not potential. They just drafted three kids who were relegated to jumbo packages and teams, almost like specialists. And they weren't even that raw. It's clear that Pollack doesn't feel comfortable with rookies.

I still wonder why Smith didn't get a sniff ahead of Adeniji, who struggled all year. I get the need for stability and the "devil you know," but only to a point. Was Smith still hurt? I know they began grooming him behind Jonah, but I also know he vaulted past Carman at RG during camp, which underlines his versatility. Was it not worth a try? In the snaps that he did play (albeit out wide) he looked mobile and competent. Yet Adeniji kept getting the call... mobile and competent are not words I would use to describe him.

I'm hoping for one major FA plus two other starters. I don't know who the stud is (Armstead's too injury-prone for me... same with Tyron Smith... we'd risk Cordy Glenn 2.0) but an elite talent like that. Then two rocks. Ben Jones, maybe. Connor W. They don't have to be kids either. I don't care about 2-3 years from now. We can groom draft and develop projects behind them (ala Stacy Andrews). But we need Day 1s... like three Riley Reiffs. Preferably from good teams. No time to waste. The Bengals are in win-now mode.

(02-16-2022, 05:56 PM)Synric Wrote: I'm not suggesting moving Jonah at this point I dont think they can becausr the rest of line is in disarray. I did say during his draft process I thought he could be a good tackle but an All-Pro LG and I still believe that.

I know everyone is down on Jackson Carman but he showed alot of talent with great vision this season. The guy is big but fast out of his stance has loose hips and quick feet and is powerful. He is a perfect fit for Taylor and Callahan's scheme. He just needs to learn and refine his technique. This Off-Season will be huge for Carman....

Other than that the Bengals have Hopkins and a bunch of unknowns on the offensive line. They have to make moves.

This is the only option I see if they did somehow talk Armstead into coming here via the Saints connection we have built up. Slide Jonah in and get Armstead at LT. At that point you still have to figure out the right side but the left side would be all world. Just not sure the money would workout without Armstead giving us a ring chaser/friend of the family discount. Maybe Bell and Hendrickson can sell him though.

By the way I don't really see a realistic way he ends up here, but that would be the only logical answer for Jonah if it hypothetically occurred because a move to RT at this point would be a disaster.

(02-16-2022, 05:59 PM)Au165 Wrote: This is the only option I see if they did somehow talk Armstead into coming here via the Saints connection we have built up. Slide Jonah in and get Armstead at LT. At that point you still have to figure out the right side but the left side would be all world. Just not sure the money would workout without Armstead giving us a ring chaser/friend of the family discount. Maybe Bell and Hendrickson can sell him though.

By the way I don't really see a realistic way he ends up here, but that would be the only logical answer for Jonah if it hypothetically occurred because a move to RT at this point would be a disaster.

Jonah played very well at RT for Bama before switching to LT.

(02-16-2022, 06:12 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Jonah played very well at RT for Bama before switching to LT.

But if you are going to move Jonah in the NFL you move him to Left Guard where he has the possibility of being better than he has been at Tackle. 

(02-16-2022, 06:12 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Jonah played very well at RT for Bama before switching to LT.

That's a long time ago and frankly relearning it at an NFL level with a few years left on his deal is not ideal for anyone involved. Left vs right handed motions can really mess a guy up badly.

(02-16-2022, 06:15 PM)Au165 Wrote: That's a long time ago and frankly relearning it at an NFL level with a few years left on his deal is not ideal for anyone involved. Left vs right handed motions can really mess a guy up badly.

I've made that same argument, just saying he's done it before. Depends on what options we have at RT.  Sliding inside to LG would be optimal if for some reason we signed Armstead. I think Jonah would make a tremendous LG... you never know.  

(02-16-2022, 06:14 PM)Synric Wrote: But if you are going to move Jonah in the NFL you move him to Left Guard where he has the possibility of being better than he has been at Tackle. 

Totally agree.

(02-16-2022, 05:56 PM)Synric Wrote: I'm not suggesting moving Jonah at this point I dont think they can becausr the rest of line is in disarray. I did say during his draft process I thought he could be a good tackle but an All-Pro LG and I still believe that.

I know everyone is down on Jackson Carman but he showed alot of talent with great vision this season. The guy is big but fast out of his stance has loose hips and quick feet and is powerful. He is a perfect fit for Taylor and Callahan's scheme. He just needs to learn and refine his technique. This Off-Season will be huge for Carman....

Other than that the Bengals have Hopkins and a bunch of unknowns on the offensive line. They have to make moves.

I think Jonah is a classic tweeter. At LT, he gets by with technique. He just slightly slow against speed guys. At LG, I don’t think he has the power to game after game there.

Jackson Carman is not a particular fit for wide zone. He is a gap/power guy.

There are a ton of possibilities the Bengals could go to work on the Offensive Line and I believe they will... I still expect a rookie starter at Right Tackle though...

4 quality Offensive Lineman.....nothing less...

It can be done thats the front offices job to make this stuff happen.

(02-16-2022, 06:20 PM)Synric Wrote: There are a ton of possibilities the Bengals could go to work on the Offensive Line and I believe they will... I still expect a rookie starter at Right Tackle though...

I think Reiff and a rookie will compete in all likely hood as well. I really like this class of RT's who will be options at the back end of the 1st or even a slight trade back into the 2nd.

(02-16-2022, 06:18 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: I think Jonah is a classic tweeter.  At LT, he gets by with technique.  He just slightly slow against speed guys.  At LG, I don’t think he has the power to game after game there.

Jackson Carman is not a particular fit for wide zone.  He is a gap/power guy.

I think he's scheme versatile and that is exactly what you want. I watched him beat some very good DT's laterally this season and show power while doing it. Kid is athletically gifted that's why he was a 5 star recruit. 

(02-16-2022, 06:22 PM)Au165 Wrote: I think Reiff and a rookie will compete in all likely hood as well. I really like this class of RT's who will be options at the back end of the 1st or even a slight trade back into the 2nd.

I think Nicholas Petit-Frere is going to be high on their board. Scheme and position versatility. 

(02-16-2022, 06:20 PM)Synric Wrote: There are a ton of possibilities the Bengals could go to work on the Offensive Line and I believe they will... I still expect a rookie starter at Right Tackle though...

We have drafted one starter in 10 years. One.  It could definitely happen, but we have never drafted this low and our track record is abysmal.  

I think many here are not excited about taking that risk, perhaps drafting a G (Zion, Kinnard) would be safer?  I dont think we get 4 new starters and a draftee may step up.  But it is dangerous to count on a draftee starting on the 2022 line.  Carmen couldnt crack the lineup with the worst line we have had in a long time.

(02-16-2022, 06:24 PM)Synric Wrote: I think Nicholas Petit-Frere is going to be high on their board. Scheme and position versatility. 

I'm not much of a fan, I think he is one of those highly recruited guys who we give a lot more leeway to when judging them because of pedigree than performance. Like I think he may be close to ceiling and that is average NFL starter. 

(02-16-2022, 06:29 PM)Au165 Wrote: I'm not much of a fan, I think he is one of those highly recruited guys who we give a lot more leeway to when judging them because of pedigree than performance. Like I think he may be close to ceiling and that is average NFL starter. 

I see a kid in his second year as a starter being flip flopped back and forth between left and right and his footwork is suffering for it.

(02-16-2022, 06:22 PM)Synric Wrote: I think he's scheme versatile and that is exactly what you want. I watched him beat some very good DT's laterally this season and show power while doing it. Kid is athletically gifted that's why he was a 5 star recruit. 

I guess we’re just going to agree to disagree. To me he is brute force/power guy. A classic phone-booth blocker. On the move his technique is pretty sloppy and his inconsistent hand placement gets exposed. Not a deal breaker but like Trey Hill, I don’t think the Bengals have a very good handle of what scheme fits are supposed to be.

(02-16-2022, 05:56 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: I think you are.  Brandon Thorn comparison:

2021:

36 round 1-4 grades
26 round 1-3 grades
15 round 1-2 grades
7 round 1 grades

So far in 2022:

29 round 1-4 grades
25 round 1-3 grades
12 round 1-2 grades
5 round 1 grades

Getting a 1st round grade or whatever round grade doesn't necessarily mean the player is ready to start or not.
A good percentage of the grade is based on how elite potential someone may have.
Look at Margus Hunt, for example. He was nowhere near a 2nd round prospect in regards to being ready to start. But his elite potential made many think he was worth taking that early.