I've been seeing a lot of people trash certain players (mainly Hopkins) for having bad PFF grades, so I wanted to set the record straight on how well or poor the OL actually did in the postseason, according to PFF.

Hopkins - 57.0 overall, 72.3 pass block, 51.4 run block, 1 penalty, 1 sack allowed
Williams - 60.9 overall, 61.6 pass block, 54.3 run block, 1 penalty, 2 sacks allowed
Spain - 46.1 overall, 49.4 pass block, 43.3 run block, 0 penalties, 2 sacks allowed
Adeniji - 37.6 overall, 19.9 pass block(!!), 48.9 run block, 0 penalties, 6 sacks allowed(!!)
Prince - 36.9 overall, 31.8 pass block(!), 52.9 run block, 4 penalties(!), 2 sacks allowed
Carman (39 snaps) - 44.9 overall, 4.2 pass block(!!), 69.9 run block, 1 penalty, 0 sacks allowed

Hopkins was the best pass blocker on the team, followed by Williams.
Adeniji and Prince were atrocious.
Carman was terrible in his limited snaps in pass blocking, but did well in the run game.

I figured some were interested in this, as most only ever see the regular season grade posted, and it's usually only the single cumulative grade.

Thanks for posting that. After seeing Hopkins get abused like he did against Tennessee, he must have faired pretty well in our other playoff games. Obviously the eye test tells you that the right side of our Oline was bad, but those numbers are comical. Even an upgrade to the mean should produce generous results.

I don't buy the ridiculous PFF on Carman's pass blocking. For example he got a 2.9 in a game where he allowed 0 sacks and 1 pressure. That by itself tells you there is something wrong with their rating system.

(02-21-2022, 06:30 PM)Joelist Wrote: I don't buy the ridiculous PFF on Carman's pass blocking. For example he got a 2.9 in a game where he allowed 0 sacks and 1 pressure. That by itself tells you there is something wrong with their rating system.

Where are you getting the 1 pressure from?
Surely you don't pay for the top tier pricing of PFF if you think it's trash.

We all know the right side was the main problem, but Spain was also rather disappointing during the playoffs. I like his nastiness, and he was a great value during the regular season, but I honestly wouldn’t mind if Jonah and Hopkins are the only guys back next year.

(02-21-2022, 06:24 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I've been seeing a lot of people trash certain players (mainly Hopkins) for having bad PFF grades, so I wanted to set the record straight on how well or poor the OL actually did in the postseason, according to PFF.

Hopkins - 57.0 overall, 72.3 pass block, 51.4 run block, 1 penalty, 1 sack allowed
Williams - 60.9 overall, 61.6 pass block, 54.3 run block, 1 penalty, 2 sacks allowed
Spain - 46.1 overall, 49.4 pass block, 43.3 run block, 0 penalties, 2 sacks allowed
Adeniji - 37.6 overall, 19.9 pass block(!!), 48.9 run block, 0 penalties, 6 sacks allowed(!!)
Prince - 36.9 overall, 31.8 pass block(!), 52.9 run block, 4 penalties(!), 2 sacks allowed
Carman (39 snaps) - 44.9 overall, 4.2 pass block(!!), 69.9 run block, 1 penalty, 0 sacks allowed

Hopkins was the best pass blocker on the team, followed by Williams.
Adeniji and Prince were atrocious.
Carman was terrible in his limited snaps in pass blocking, but did well in the run game.

I figured some were interested in this, as most only ever see the regular season grade posted, and it's usually only the single cumulative grade.

Those grades are all bad including Hopkins.  The issue with Hopkins is he is scheduled to be paid 7.1 million this year.  For that amount of money you could get Ben Jones who is a much better center and much higher PFF or you could spend a little more (10 million per year) and get a pro bowl center in Ryan Jensen.  Why pay over 7 million for a not so good center with a regular season and post season PFF in the 50s when for close to the same amount of money you could upgrade the center position with Jones or Jensen?

(02-21-2022, 06:41 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We all know the right side was the main problem, but Spain was also rather disappointing during the playoffs. I like his nastiness, and he was a great value during the regular season, but I honestly wouldn’t mind if Jonah and Hopkins are the only guys back next year.

I think Spain's postseason brought his price down a lot.  I thought he'd be a 7 mil guard mid-season.  Now he's probably a 4 and change guy.  I'm not mad if he comes back just as long as other big improvements are made along the line.  If he's the worst lineman you end up starting, you could do a lot worse.

(02-21-2022, 09:30 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Those grades are all bad including Hopkins.  The issue with Hopkins is he is scheduled to be paid 7.1 million this year.  For that amount of money you could get Ben Jones who is a much better center and much higher PFF or you could spend a little more (10 million per year) and get a pro bowl center in Ryan Jensen.  Why pay over 7 million for a not so good center with a regular season and post season PFF in the 50s when for close to the same amount of money you could upgrade the center position with Jones or Jensen?

In all fairness Hopkins was recovering from a serious knee injury. He used to be a better run blocker pre injury, I didn't see anything especially in the superbowl of returning to that level. He isn't horrible but I feel he really limits us on 3rd and 2 or less

(02-21-2022, 10:01 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: In all fairness Hopkins was recovering from a serious knee injury. He used to be a better run blocker pre injury, I didn't see anything especially in the superbowl of returning to that level. He isn't horrible but I feel he really limits us on 3rd and 2 or less

Hopkins has never been a good run blocker.

(02-21-2022, 10:01 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: In all fairness Hopkins was recovering from a serious knee injury. He used to be a better run blocker pre injury, I didn't see anything especially in the superbowl of returning to that level. He isn't horrible but I feel he really limits us on 3rd and 2 or less

I think the whole line limits us on short yardage situations.  How many times during both regular season and post season have we needed 1 or 2 yards and the line just couldnt get any push on the defense?

While I generally don’t put much stock in PFF scores — I often say “PFF!” is the sound a fart makes — I do trust actual statistics like 74 sacks and paltry third down conversion rates.

It makes sense to rebuild the offensive line from right to left.

(02-21-2022, 11:46 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: While I generally don’t put much stock in PFF scores — I often say “PFF!” is the sound a fart makes — I do trust actual statistics like 74 sacks and paltry third down conversion rates.  

It makes sense to rebuild the offensive line from right to left.

Exactly. Instead of weird ideas like shifting Jonah to LG so we can get another LT we don't need let's get in their prime starter quality players for RT and RG - which we DO need. 

Hopkins isn't good. He should not be safe if we can find a replacement. Obviously RG and RT are more pressing but I would like to see us upgrade Hopkins as well whether via the draft by trading up for Linderbaum or sign Jensen or Jones.

When they can't get a yard, when they need a yard, they suck..

How does someone have a 4.2 pass block grade? Like, you'd think just standing there and trying would get a better grade than that.

I guess the Bengals could have been doubling to help him.

Regarding Hopkins. I'm giving Taylor the benefit of the doubt here. We won't run a QB sneak on 3rd or 4th and a half yard which is 90 percent effective with a decent C.

(02-22-2022, 10:38 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: How does someone have a 4.2 pass block grade? Like, you'd think just standing there and trying would get a better grade than that.

I guess the Bengals could have been doubling to help him.

Rams started sending 5 much more frequently in the second half and stunting far more, making it difficult to double.

I do wish they were a little more transparent with their grades so that we know exactly how they reached a certain grade, but they won't share to that detail.

carmen could be a fullback

(02-22-2022, 01:19 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Rams started sending 5 much more frequently in the second half and stunting far more, making it difficult to double.

I do wish they were a little more transparent with their grades so that we know exactly how they reached a certain grade, but they won't share to that detail.

I wasn't talking SB. I meant regular season.

People wonder how he can have a pass block grade so low, yet low sack and pressure counts.

(02-22-2022, 03:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I wasn't talking SB. I meant regular season.

People wonder how he can have a pass block grade so low, yet low sack and pressure counts.

I think people incorrectly associate that if the defender didn't get a pressure, hit, or sack, the blocking grade should be good.
But that's not all they look at.
They look at positioning, hand placement, anchor, and all that other stuff.
Just because it may not have resulted in a negative play doesn't mean there weren't negative aspects to the player's performance on the snap.